How long until a Gold Cup is played entirely outside of USA?

Discussion in 'Gold Cup' started by MRschizoid21, Jun 6, 2011.

  1. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    Thanks for the info. I had by dates mixed up. It was 2005 that I had to switch around my cable package.
    2007, 2009, 2011 - English Language coverage for US games only via FOX Soccer
    2013 - English Language coverage for all games via FOX Soccer w/ US QF and Final on Fox OTA

    This is the 5th edition of the Gold Cup with English Language tv coverage for US games, the 2nd with English Language coverage for all games, and the first with English Language coverage on a mainstream sports channel.
     
  2. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    Also of note, the CONCACAF contract signed with FOX back in 2012 expires after this Gold Cup and CCL in 2016. It might be a good time for CONCACAF to expand to 16 and move the tournament around, if they can get a good bid from FOX, ESPN, or NBC. This upcoming tournament would be appear to be extremely important to show their value to US tv networks.
     
  3. italiancbr

    italiancbr Member

    Apr 15, 2007
    Let's assume that it's better to squeeze out every last dollar from the Gold Cup rather than have a more competitive and fair tournament. I could possibly be persuaded if there was some transparency on how that money was used. But where do you think the money will go? Will CONCACAF use it for youth soccer tournaments, or training officials, or coaching clinics, or building soccer pitches, or women's soccer development? Maybe you can believe that if you've been living in a cave. It's going to go straight into the pockets of CONCACAF officials, member association presidents, and marketing executives. It's the same reason that the Copa America Centenario was going to be held in the U.S. Everything was outlined in the indictment against FIFA, which was really against CONMEBOL and CONCACAF since those arrested represented those two regions. I didn't see any names from the other soccer confederations: UEFA; CAF; AFC; OFC. So CONCACAF is the most corrupt confederation within a corrupt sporting organization. Congrats, I suppose. Let's not forget that every member association within FIFA gets $250k every year for soccer development and the less developed nations also get GOAL projects worth $500K every year. Anguilla alone has had three Goal projects within the last 10 to 15 years. They are getting more than enough help as long as they used their resources properly. So the argument about generating as much revenue as possible doesn't really resonate with me.

    Speaking strictly as a fan of soccer rotating the tournament would make it much more exciting. There just isn't any parity or competitiveness in CONCACAF and it doesn't seem like it's ever going to improve.

    The way I see it, what you're really saying when you want the Gold Cup to continue to be held in the U.S. is that people like Chuck Blazer, who have never even played soccer, should be able to continue to afford to have a separate apartment in New York City for their cats.
     
  4. Otaku

    Otaku Member+

    Dec 9, 2003
    Club:
    CDSC Cruz Azul
    Country:
    Mexico
    This is not true. Just look at the winners of the old Concacaf Championship.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONCACAF_Championship

    Much more variety in the winners than now. By evidence of the Hex and how hard it is to play at those places there is an argument that playing the cup in Central America would be tough/competitive.
     
  5. LordRobin

    LordRobin Member+

    Sep 1, 2006
    Akron, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Country:
    United States
    Or it's just evidence that it was a different era with different dominant teams. Even so, Mexico and Costa Rica combined to take 6 of the 10 titles, and there never was a tournament without one of those two finishing in the top three.

    ------RM
     
  6. Otaku

    Otaku Member+

    Dec 9, 2003
    Club:
    CDSC Cruz Azul
    Country:
    Mexico
    Again just look at the Hex results, playing a team in Central America at home is still tough today.
     
  7. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    Here are USA and Mexico's WCQ results at Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Panama, and Honduras in qualifying for World Cups 2006, 2010, and 2014 including the Semifinals and Hexagonal:

    September 8, 2004: Panama 1:1 USA
    October 9, 2004: El Salvador 0:2 USA
    February 9, 2005: Costa Rica 1:2 Mexico
    March 30, 2005: Panama 1:1 Mexico
    June 4, 2005: Guatemala 0:2 Mexico
    June 8, 2005: Panama 0:3 USA
    September 7, 2005: Guatemala 0:0 USA
    October 8, 2005: Costa Rica 3:0 USA
    September 20, 2008: Guatemala 0:1 USA
    October 19, 2008: Honduras 1:0 Mexico
    March 28, 2009: El Salvador 2:2 USA
    April 1, 2009: Honduras 3:1 Mexico
    June 3, 2009: Costa Rica 3:1 USA
    June 6, 2009: El Salvador 2:1 Mexico
    September 5, 2009: Costa Rica 0:3 Mexico
    October 10, 2009: Honduras 2:3 USA
    June 12, 2012: Guatemala 1:1 USA
    June 12, 2012: El Salvador 1:2 Mexico
    September 7, 2012: Costa Rica 0:2 Mexico
    February 6, 2013: Honduras 2:1 USA
    March 22, 2013: Honduras 2:2 Mexico
    June 7, 2013: Panama 0:0 Mexico
    September 6, 2013: Costa Rica 3:1 USA
    October 15, 2013: Costa Rica 2:1 Mexico
    October 15, 2013: Panama 2:3 USA

    That's 25 games and here are each country's records:

    USA: 5 wins, 4 draws, 4 losses
    Mexico: 5 wins, 3 draws, 4 losses
    USA and Mexico combined: 10 wins, 7 draws, 8 losses, 1.48 points per game

    Costa Rica: 4 wins, 0 draws, 3 losses
    Panama: 0 wins, 3 draws, 2 losses
    Honduras: 3 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss
    Guatemala: 0 wins, 2 draws, 2 losses
    El Salvador: 1 win, 1 draw, 2 losses
    UNCAF combined: 8 wins, 7 draws, 10 losses, 1.24 points per game
     
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  8. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    Just read Archer's Concacaf article about the changes the North American associations are making to the governing structure of the confederation. Wonder if that will reach the Gold Cup and holding it outside of North America? They terminated the rights traffic sports had to the Gold Cup TV rights so TV money may increase if competitive bidding is allowed to happen
     
  9. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Country:
    Nigeria
    #284 Unak78, Jul 12, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015
    I think you're both saying the same thing.

    I too would like to see a Gold cup outside the U.S. not only in Central America but in the Carribbean as well. I don't think there is a single country outside the U.S., Canada or Mexico that has enough good grounds to host this alone so I would see this best done by a co-hosted tournament taking the best grounds in several countries. Perhaps CR, Honduras, Panama and Guatemala can host a Central American tournament with upgrades to their national stadiums. If you go to the Carribbean it could be split between Cuba, Jamaica, Haiti and T&T provided that CONCACAF could assure that a suitable stadium can be built in each country. That would be further down the line from a Central American tournament. But in the interest of improving the confederation this should be a goal.
     
  10. italiancbr

    italiancbr Member

    Apr 15, 2007
    It's not just the hosting that gives the tournament an unfair advantage but the draw too. Was there even a draw or seeding? Costa Rica is the highest rated CONCACAF team but they're in Group B which happens to be the group where the group winner doesn't face a 3rd place team. Maybe that's coincidence but the weird part is that the Group A winner (U.S.) will play the Group A/Group B runners-up QF winner in one semifinal and the Group C winner (Mexico or T&T) will play the Group B/Group C runners-up QF winner in the other semifinal. So essentially there could be two repeat games from the group stage in the semifinals. So now Mexico can decide what kind of result they want to go after against T&T in the final group game depending on which QF opponent seems easier. I guess the organizers wanted to ensure that the U.S. and Mexico didn't have to meet until the final if either one had a slip-up and finished runner-up in their group.
     
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  11. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_CONCACAF_Gold_Cup#Draw says that the only seeding was that the Top 3 in the November 2014 FIFA Rankings were placed one in each group. In those FIFA Rankings, USA was third in CONCACAF and 28th in FIFA. They were way ahead of Trinidad and Tobago, who was fourth in CONCACAF in 54th in FIFA.
     
  12. La Trucha

    La Trucha Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 16, 2009
    42 Wallaby Way, Sydney
    Club:
    Melbourne Victory
    Country:
    Australia
    Since USMNT isn't the final this year, can we finally have the next GC hosted in Mexico?
     
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  13. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    after tonight, i am officially changing my stance on this. even if it costs concacaf a lot of revenue, for the good of the confederation, they need to make major changes to this tournament.

    concacaf needs to emphasize fair play above all else right now in the midst of their corruption scandal and this egregious mexico run to the final
     
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  14. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Ghana
    Hello, new here and introduced myself in the USA sub-forum. ConCaCaf is corrupt!! As is FIFA!! Jack Warner is waiting for extradition. The USA stadiums assure them the most money for their work. Mexico then Canada can provide that but those other places will show up for a USA or Mexico or local game but do you think Costa Ricans are gonna show up to watch Jamaica play Haiti? They don't come out for the USA that much but depending on what state the stadium is they can get a solid turnout. Always follow the money!
     
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  15. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    People don't show up for Haiti vs Jamaica now that is why it's a doubleheader
     
  16. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Ghana
    Yes but you could put that in Florida and get a decent audience. Where in Central America do you think you will get a decent audience.
     
  17. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    They don't do that now so it's not really a good argument for keeping it in the USA forever
     
  18. Pønch

    Pønch Saprissista

    Aug 23, 2006
    Donde siempre
    It's like none of these points have been discussed and refuted for pages already...
     
  19. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Ghana
    Come on, I thought it was forum custom to read a couple of pages then go off foaming at the mouth. I will make irrational points based on nothing but my opinion soon, just haven't found the right topic yet.
     
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  20. Pønch

    Pønch Saprissista

    Aug 23, 2006
    Donde siempre
    Looks like it took some awful refereeing to finally make the other confederations realize (admit?) maybe money should not be the main objective in a sporting competition. Of course chances are high that this is only lip service until things calm down and people move on, but at least they are on the record now:

    http://www.nacion.com/deportes/futbol-costa-rica/Copa-Oro-pone-dinero-deportivo_0_1501649867.html

     
  21. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
  22. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    The venues and seeding were chosen to generate the most money based on fan population in certain cities. The ref appointments were not scrutinized by a committee. 2015 was the lowest tournament in terms of proper ethics possibly making many factions in the federation. Maybe this will lead to changes in future tournaments. 3 years high school spanish so ymmv
     
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  23. La Trucha

    La Trucha Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 16, 2009
    42 Wallaby Way, Sydney
    Club:
    Melbourne Victory
    Country:
    Australia
    I wish CONCACAF would stop deliberately placing USA and Mexico in opposite groups so that they meet in the final. It should happen more naturally. I mean, is it so bad that they can't be in the same group?
     
  24. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    Ghana
    They are the two highest ranked teams so they should be in opposite groups and sides of the bracket.

    It is nonsense that the refs and Concacaf make sure Mexico win or make that insane call against USA.
     
  25. BuckeyeRed

    BuckeyeRed Member

    Jun 25, 2007
    Cleveland, OH
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Sure. Urine bags for everyone. :) Seriously, after the disgraceful display by the Mexican fans throughout this tournament, they shouldn't be hosting anything for a while. Even their 1st few home WC qualifiers should be played behind closed doors.
     

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