I think most Barcelona fans would, without much hesitation, place Iniesta and Busquets above Suarez. I think Dani Alves, the club's greatest RB, deserves a mention as well.
Yeah that probably has to do more longevity than actual peak performances How many club seasons did iniesta have during which he was a top 5 player in the world 08/09 10/11 11/12 And that’s pretty much it if we’re being honest and objective Suárez was arguably La Liga MVP in 2015/16.no other player can claim this in the Messi-Ronaldo era of La Liga Possibly iniesta could be ranked higher for longevity at the club,and some big moments in the champions league that are lacking in Suárez case(even though he did score the winner in 14/15 vs juventus) But Let’s not pretend as if there is a gulf in difference between the two(at their respective peaks it is hard to make a case iniesta was that much more valuable then Suarez IMO)
Longevity counts for A LOT though when considering club legends. Giggs is right up there with George Best, for example. Tony Adams as well, with Henry. Given all that Iniesta has achieved, I think most Barcelona fans would easily place him in the same legendary tier as Ronaldinho.
Totally agree, I thought Suarez was possibly on the downhill slide after last season (gradual decline not sharp albeit), but this is probably his best season since 15-16. Interesting to see when Barcelona think about replacing him given his age as he is 32 in a few days, question is who currently could do his role for Barca as well as he is now. Possibly later rather than sooner given this season.
Yeah but how much did he achieve as a passenger? League titles in 05/06,14/15 ,17/18 were he played a minimal role A CL in 14/15 during which he was largely unimpressive. Etc Yeah Giggs has a weak case for Manchester United’s goat Nobody when asked who is the greatest Manchester United player you’ve seen would say Ryan Giggs. Names like Charlton,law,cantona,Ronaldo,best often spring to mind I’m not sure tony Adams being considered Arsenal’s goat is a widely held opinion. Henry won the vote via an official arsenal fan poll(bergkamp came 2nd and tony Adams 3rd) https://www.webcitation.org/6HM5m3V...rchive/greatest-players-no-2.-dennis-bergkand
Nobody said anything about GOAT status because neither Suarez nor Iniesta are being considered for such a thing. We're talking about tiers of club legends. Tony Adams belongs up there with Henry and Bergkamp, unless 3rd place is that far behind from 1st and 2nd. Giggs is also right up with Charlton, Law, Cantona, Ronaldo, and Best. He's been voted no.1 before. Manchester Evening News and the Telegraph both named him as no.1. In a 2018 vote, he finished top 3, IIRC. So even if he's not GOAT, you can see why it is valid he's in the top tier for MAn Utd pantheon. Guns to our heads, Messi will be Barcelona's GOAT. Below him, however, there's plenty of room for other club legends. My point is, based on my conversation with Barcelona fans, and from what I've seen on the internet, Iniesta easily belongs in the tier below Messi-Tier-Of-One.
Iniesta never reached a level during which he was legitimately challenging for best player over a single club season (Xavi at least did so in 2008/09) Iniesta was fairly consistent but with a lower peak when compared to Suarez 15/16 and cannot be compared to Ronaldinho or Micheal laudrup in terms of their respective influence Giggs at least had 20 years of first team football to solidify his position and in any case the competition for legendary spots is higher at Barcelona considering who they’ve had playing there Kubala for example was considered the greatest Barcelona player of all time pre Messi so he’s another player we could easily put ahead. There are also many ex Barcelona players IMO who comfortably displayed a higher level than iniesta but lacked longevity at the club Maradona 1982/83 Romario 1993/94 Rivaldo 1998/99 Ronaldo 1996/97 Cruyff 1973/74 Figo 1999/00 Neymar 2015/16 And possibly others I think it would be hard to argue iniesta was a higher quality player or had a higher (or even equal) peak to any of the aforementioned players at Barcelona Therefore putting him in that goat tier just below Messi is slightly problematic Btw I don’t think stoichkov,Rivaldo etc makes for bad company after all they were considered arguably the best footballers in the world(even if it was brief)
Iniesta is seen as a local boy and academy product, and we know those always have an extra plus. Even if they are sporadically among the 4 best players of their team. Maldini, Lahm, Iniesta. The list is long.
United supporters would name Scholes above all of them except Charlton (which is puzzling for me tbh, heavily overrated after retirement). See Puck's post. Was born a few km away from the club's ground.
I actually think scholes was heavily underrated during his career which may lead to the perception that he became overrated post career As a general rule I tend to rank players according to how they were viewed during their playing careers Scholes is an exception a player who was under appreciated by fans not associated with Manchester United but unanimously respected by his fellow professionals Just hear how Henry speaks of him Others have also spoken about him in high regard zidane/Xavi and others I can’t recall It is highly unlikely that they all gathered together in some sort of conspiratorial alliance to have scholes held in a higher esteem then he deserved If he could tackle combined with his other qualities scholes would probably be a prime contender for best/most complete CM of all time
Interesting to hear players thoughts on this, I often here players say Scholes is the best midfielder they played with, same for Gerrard if they were at Liverpool, I rarely if ever hear that for Lampard. I am not knocking Lampard but he reached where he is due to very very hard work and fair play to him, he was also a great decision maker in final third, runs, finishes etc... his goal stats though are seriously pumped up by penalties of which some seasons were nearly in double figures and 40 penalties for Chelsea , that's quite a chunk of his tally. My thoughts are over a season(s) Lampard stats and consistency have put him in that discussion but he is not the same level as Gerrard or Scholes.
I agree to a certain extent even though I think he was a world class technician in his prime terms like hard worker usually have negative connotations attached to it(ie lacking in skills or being unremarkable to watch) Lampard was the 2nd best player in the world in 2005 and this was meant to be during Ronaldinhos best ever year Gerrard was the most complete out of the three,Lampard was the best finisher(a box to box MF with a strikers positioning but he couldn’t run a game like the other two however on the flip side he was more versatile) Scholes showed he could play in a more advanced role as a SS in 2002/03 playing just behind RVN and it is possible had he continued in this role his goal tally would be much higher To be honest at their very best there really isn’t that much to split between them and I would throw in Rooney aswell(at their respective primes they were equally influential)
I disagree he was second best player in the world then, personally I thought Ronaldinho and Henry were well ahead of the rest for that period, Lampard was the best player that season/year in a very dominant team hence his high finish in the voting for the major awards, he was no Henry though. I can totally see your points but just think he was at the same level as Scholes or Gerrard and his attributes were different
Your probably right(about Henry) when I said 2nd best I was referring to his official ranking Whether he was or wasn’t is certainly disputable I came across this video below a comprehensive look at Henry’s 2005/06 season I was really surprised at how creative he was for a striker It is not so common for a virtuoso to also be such a great team player A poster made a case that Henry was a more composed wing dribbler in Barcelona when he lost his pace I think in 05/06 he found the perfect balance from a technical perspective(his first touch,ball control and for a striker he was a damn good though baller) Maybe this could be his peak but it just never seemed so because he had here an ageing team and a inferior support cast to what he had years previous
Debatable but fair point, while I agree his 05-06 was much more impressive (excluding a very poor WC), he was still in the ESM team of month six times in 04-05 (more than any other midfielder or attacker bar Eto'o who he was joint with) but he was still pretty impressive. I do agree his peak was in 05/06 and the voting for the awards was heavily based off the start to 05/06 season. It comes back to the old season vs calendar year debate, 04-05 was he the best player? possibly / probably / maybe.... 05 calendar year, definitely in my view. The Don Balon award does back your view up as Ronaldinho won it for the 03-04 and 05-06 season, with Riquelme winning 04-05.
Looking back at it then Ronaldinho was certainly a remarkable player and the symbol of Barcelona their rise to the top, but his zenith was reached in the second half of 2003-04 and 2005-06 for me (and then in particular til march 2006). In 2004-05 he had in his free role (a more free role as Ribery on that position for example) 13 goals, which includes 5 penalties, and 11-12 assists in 42 games for Barcelona. Given his 'perk' of set piece taker, too, that type of figure is really not earth shocking. This is clearly a step below what he showed in the surrounding 1.5 years. It is even worse as what other 'number 10s' of that time could show and worse as the 35+ years old veterans Zola and Bergkamp for example in the same season. I don't say he was a bad player, and I'm not a 'believer' in Riquelme his case over him. It also helped this (2005) was most probably his best year for the Brazilian national team. For me 2004-05 is more at the level of 2006-07, when he had the overall productivity but had (serious) issues in his mobility and capacity to move/trick himself past players.
Completely agree, good point re national team also, 04-05 season he scored 11 goals for the national team, that is a third of his career tally in just one season, so agree Barca level may not of been as high but for Brazil it peaked. I still feel for 05-06 season as a whole there was no-one close to him in terms of level and a dramatic loss of form in the second half of 06 was driven by the party lifestyle and stopped him winning 06 awards which he would have been a clear favourite for in my view.
Don't remind me. 4 goals in the last 24 matches is so bad... not to mention two of those goals came in a 7-0 shellacking of Celtic. He really has to find his form in the CL.
How does his assists look like? For recent strikers at Barca; how does Suarez compare to Eto'o, Henry, Ibra, Villa