How Good a Coach is Ben Olsen?

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Hedbal, Dec 18, 2011.

  1. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I offer this as a topic for the winter doldrums. Ben's strengths and shortcomings were discussed here and there during and right after the season, but usually as part of another discussion. I've not seen a thread devoted to Ben alone.

    One thing is certain: he will get better. But how good is he now and how good is he likely to become? And how does he (and will he) stack up against his competitors? For example, Robin Fraser is a former player who now is a fairly new head coach. Can we compare the two? Jay Heaps(!) is jumping from the playing field to the head coach's spot. How does his situation compare to Ben's?

    Two facts might be worth remembering: After Soehn was let go, KP said Benny wasn't ready to be head coach. Even Benny said he wasn't ready to be head coach. But then, several months later, he said he would like to be head coach. And shortly thereafter, he was.

    You can want to be a head coach and still not be ready for the task. Is that the case with Ben Olsen?
     
  2. itwasi

    itwasi Member+

    May 9, 2008
    I don't know
    Club:
    DC United
    How is it a certainty that he will get better?

    I liked how Olsen started the season. He was very aggressive and very attacking. If DCU went down a goal or two he took off a defender and added an attacker. He stopped doing that around the time DeRo arrived so maybe it wasn't necessary but I didn't like the change.

    I particularly didn't like the fact that the team failed to play for the full 90 minutes (concentration or motivation; it was different for different games). I don't care about Olsen's personal playing style; no matter the coach should a team be lackadaisical or not competing for the full 90, especially if that happens throughout the season. The home Chicago match stands out first 70 minutes - nothing, last 20 fantastic.
     
  3. redcomet

    redcomet Member

    Sep 10, 2010
    Club:
    DC United
    He has the exact same record as Jason Kreis 46 games in.
     
  4. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Whenever people talk about Olsen's coaching ability, I always think back to an interview he gave years ago while sidelined by his ankle. In the interview he talked about how because of his injury he was spending a lot of time on the couch watching soccer. This wasn't something he had previously done. And his great revelation from watching all this soccer was that he didn't really understand the game tactically and positionally. He was now soaking it all up and becoming much more of a student of the game and he was now trying to develop a real soccer mind and some real soccer savvy. But until the injuries, this was all lacking.

    Kreis, as I understand it, was very different. He was from day one a real student of the game. And even before he was named coach of RSL, he had a strong reputation for coaching tactically and positionally from the field. Kreis has a real, almost innate soccer brain. Olsen is not like that. Maybe he was the heart or backbone of the team at times. But he wasn't coaching on the field the way Kreis did. And maybe that means Kreis has more potential than Olsen. Or maybe it means nothing of the sort. But it's a difference.

    I think the question is whether Olsen has really developed the soccer brain that is associated with good and great coaches. My sense is that this is still a project for him. I really can't say how he'll end up. But I do think he started a few steps further back than Kreis.
     
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  5. Barbieri

    Barbieri Member+

    Jul 8, 2004
    Decatur, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This year is the biggest test - it will be his personnel out there. He needs to make the playoffs. I think three years to do this is acceptable. So that is his criteria for is he is good enough this year.

    But can he build any depth to it for future success... with all the ? out there (stadium), I'm not so sure. This is what separates good from great.
     
  6. John L

    John L Member+

    Sep 20, 2003
    Alexandria, VA
    In some of our early games last season, he was clearly out-coached and/or the team was unprepared or over-whelmed - NYRB, San Jose and Houston come to mind - But the return games, particularly NYRB and San Jose, were very different - Having DeRo in the 2nd games made a big difference, but Olsen and his staff evidently learned some lessons from the earlier games and made adjustments

    I think he's still learning - And learning how to learn, learning how to watch a game, learning how to figure out what adjustments to make in the middle of a game - Its too bad he didn't pay more attention to Bruce Arena's coaching while he was playing under Arena

    One other thing that he (or get somebody on his staff) needs to improve on is an overall game strategy for team defense - While its hard to see on TV at times, all the big-time successful clubs have a defensive posture thats designed with a strategic purpose - And this is whats lacking in most MLS clubs - If Olsen can develop this next season, it will mean a lot fewer goals given away and less pressure on the fullbacks and goallee

    Bottomline - 1st year - A good young coach, who did alright considering his first year and what he had to work with and then the injuries late in the season - Next year - Needs to improve on (1) preparation, (2) motivation throughout the game, (3) halftime adjustments and (4) team defensive posture
     
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  7. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    One guesses that Olsen absorbed quite a lot at that point, because if he hadn't, his career would have been screwed. The pre-injury Olsen was a relative speed demon (which Kreis never was), whereas after his injuries he had to survive by his wits.

    The strangest thing to me about DCU last season is how little it seemed to remind me of Ben Olsen the player. He was the master of iron will and of frustrating the other team. He clogged lanes, he committed smart tactical fouls, he was in the refs face, his teammates face, etc. This team, especially on defense, didn't seem to show that kind of attitude. At least the McDonald trade was a tipoff that there was some recognition of what the team was lacking, but I'd like to see it go further.
     
  8. scruggs45

    scruggs45 Member

    Jun 25, 2003
    kp, va
    A below average one.

    He's been in over his head since day one and while that's not his fault, it also can't be an excuse. Pro sports area about winning, winning, and winning.

    DC United under Olsen doesn't do that.
     
  9. Eastern Bear

    Eastern Bear Member+

    Feb 27, 1999
    Great Falls, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Hopefully he improves as quickly as Kreis did.
     
  10. ImNumberTen

    ImNumberTen Member+

    Oct 4, 2007
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can you offer an example of how Olsen is "in over his head"? Do you think he has the personnel to win in MLS but his weaknesses are what have prevented DCU from making the playoffs? Is he weak tactically?

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but you offer nothing in terms of why you hold the one you do.
     
  11. nobletea

    nobletea Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 29, 2004
    HarCo
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Great post. I remember that article.

    I think lets see how Heaps does. Pretty similar situation.
     
  12. DCUSA

    DCUSA Member+

    Jan 14, 2006
    Virginia
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought the last few weeks of the season were very telling as to Olsen's abilities at this point in time. Not good.
    One thing that I like about him is also working against him. He wants to play attractive, aggressive ball. He wants pretty passing and flair and guys showing their personalities on the field. Unfortunately, it isn't balanced with a solid base of responsibility and accountability.
    Compare him to Arena (not fair, but I'm doing it anyway). Arena gets results because he is patient and his teams are patient. If you are a team that makes mistakes, you will lose to Arena because he will just wear you down until you beat yourself. He'll have a couple of guys that are creative (Etch/Moreno, Beckham/Donovan), and then a bunch or worker bees that will play in the system and always be where they should be. Arena pictures the team as 8 or 9 legs with 2 or 3 sets of eyes, moving as a unit. I don't see anything as close to as sophisticated as that happening with Olsen.
    Time. He needs time. As a coach, he is practically prenatal. That's tactically. But, as was mentioned above, any decent coach will have a team that's fit and a team that understands what's at stake every single game and plays accordingly. That was my disappointment with Olsen last season, especially at the end of the season with everything on the line.
     
  13. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    I think Olsen is a credible leader. He seems comfortable in the role.

    I can seen Ben really building a tight knit group that is focused, hard working and dedicated to the cause. He doesn't seem like an authoritarian, so I hope he empowers creative players to be more creative. He seems to have good social skills, so I can see him managing the players' personalities, egos etc ...

    The downside with Ben of course is the coaching immaturity. We saw it several times this season. Most of our points this season came as result of certain individual performances by the likes of De Ro, Najar, Pontius and Hamid, rarely as a result of our team dominating and overpowering the competition.

    I think Ben would be wise to pair up with truly cerebral tactician as an assistant coach who can teach him some things. Maybe someone with a Dutch perspective like Silooy, maybe Etcheverry, maybe someone like Bob Gansler out of retirement ... I don't know.

    I just see Ashton as more of the inforcer. The kind of assistant coach that's good at practice. Stays on top of players, drills them, does all the repetitive necessary tasks. But he doesn't strike me as a fountain of brilliant tactics.
     
  14. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, I think Olsen needs some help that I don't think Ashton delivers. Silooy might be that person, although he has an important job already. I've attended a coaches clinic led by Bob Gansler and thought he was excellent and exuded a quiet authority. My candidate, Greg Vanney, is spoken for.
     
  15. CHICO13

    CHICO13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2001
    SECTION 135
    Club:
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Given what he had to work with and virtually zero coaching experience I give him a solid C. Depending on what kind of a team Payne and Kasper give him I think we'll know if he's cut out for this gig a quarter of the way into next season.
     
  16. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I tend to agree with you that a gentleman's C should be his grade so far. But what if he fails to advance/improve? Could United fire a team icon?
     
  17. CHICO13

    CHICO13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2001
    SECTION 135
    Club:
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I don't see it being any different than the team showing Marco and Jaime the door when they couldn't produce any more.
     
  18. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's very different. Players age and become less effective - everybody either retires or is "retired" eventually. But coaches usually are expected to improve with age and experience. You can't show Ben the door because he's gotten too old to coach. But what do you do if he's gotten older, but not better?
     
  19. CHICO13

    CHICO13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2001
    SECTION 135
    Club:
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    It's still a results oriented business. If he has a good line up and screws the pooch on formations, tactics and substitutions and it's evident he's in over his head you thank him, give him a lovely parting gift and send him on his way. They can not afford to have blind loyalty to anyone sitting on that bench, not anymore. This team needs to win and win now.
     
  20. Hedbal

    Hedbal Member+

    Jul 31, 2000
    DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree that blind loyalty should no longer cut it. The only quibble I have with your post is that I don't believe the team has to win and win now, but make the personnel/training/coaching moves now so as to win soon.
     
    1 person likes this.
  21. CHICO13

    CHICO13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2001
    SECTION 135
    Club:
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Bleeding attendance tells me they need to win and win now. This club is rapidly approaching being an afterthought within the city, the media and its own fan base. The only way to reverse that is to put an exciting winning team on the field. Even then it might be too late. The future for DC United in this city is squarely in their hands. I think this season will go a long way in showing us where they'll end up. My hunch is that they're gone.
     
  22. kirchhausen

    kirchhausen Member+

    Apr 17, 2004
    Ashburn, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Luckily for Ben I don't think Payne, Kasper or Chang know enough about formations, tactics or personnel to know if Olsen is doing a good coaching job or not.
     
  23. CHICO13

    CHICO13 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 4, 2001
    SECTION 135
    Club:
    The Strongest La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    The people that will stay away in droves do.
     
  24. ncguy

    ncguy New Member

    Jan 28, 2002
    NC
    The only observation I have is that there were no 40th minute subs.
     
  25. Grasscutter

    Grasscutter Member

    Jan 21, 2003
    Atlantis
    Club:
    DC United
    Given the poor results in 2008 and 2009 under Sohn and in 2010 under Onalfo, I think Ben has a lot more rope/goodwill than you guys are acknowledging.

    I can't see a scenario where this team has bad results in 2012 and either the owner or the fans accept Ben being fired and the FO being retained. Payne and especially Kasper's hides are on the line if things go badly, not Ben's.
     

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