He undoubtedly got that info from the new statistical analysis that the Dynamo started using last year.
Look, as usual, the way this played out was I put up an evenhanded post praising certain people and criticizing others, and people take issue with the criticism subjects, the conversation veers that way, and now people like you pretend I never said anything positive, since we are at this point discussing the critiques. I can revive my praise for the wings or Deric if necessary, dear god. I am enjoying the positive results same as everyone else, but I also know people around here can fall in love with mirages. Bruin is a classic example. All I am saying is I buy x% of what is going well, but these 3 players didn't impress me. Torres has 1 more run of play goal here than in his first 2 seasons. Maybe those of you who claimed to need to "wait and see" when I said we would play well based on preseason might consider doing the same here, considering the mix of fun and frustration he still presents. Or is the real consistent rationale throwing a wet blanket on anything I say. If people weren't so busy beating on Juve and went back and looked at tape, they might find it interesting how little passing/crossing there is from wings to forward, how often Torres gets beat on 50/50s, and how few shots Torres is actually getting despite his privileged location (ie, fewer than Quioto or Elis). He is being efficient but from my perspective as a defender, I think he can be marked out of a game easy and even right now he is depending on converting any chances he gets.
You do often act like we can do nothing which suits the powers that be. Even if we can make trades, mutual releases, etc.
I explained I felt like the three combined better at the end of Cbus and also that with a faster forward up there, when the wings fly down and flank teams, we might actually have someone in the box to pass to. For a team that kills it on the wings we have remarkably few forward chances and shots from crosses. For all those crosses how many times is Torres on the end? Seriously. Think about what I am saying and what it suggests about untapped offensive potential.
Oh, you're back? I thought you bailed on us in favor of (looks down the list) the 7th best team in England.
I think what it boils down to is after watching preseason plus this, I am not as sold it's "working" as you are. I've been watching him fluff chances all preseason and on into the first game. He does also score but at a certain rate of misses and unavailability, you're wasting offense, even if you score some. Or haven't we had this discussion about Bruin. He has a free kick goal top of the 18, and then a Xerox of Quioto's shot actually taken from a wing channel. He is not creating or finishing actual forward opportunities. Sorry, to me, he's doing fine as a utility type player, but not actually as a forward. That sounds like a sub to me, not the central forward in there to finish what Quioto and Elis create. Because he can't even keep up with that. If you watch closely, basically the wings are the ones in there trying to finish each other's crosses. I expect we will in fact go with Torres right until it runs aground like Bruin would do. Because we subscribe to "not broke don't fix it." You can see that with Cabezas over Alexander even when one started over the other all preseason. We are literally scared of risk. I expect like the beginning of last season that a chunk of people will pretend everything has changed until they see a lot more reality, since they look at the box score afterwards and not how often a player is screwing up in all the various phases during game play. That being said, if he's scores a jillion goals, I'll have to reconsider this. I just feel like what I see so far is a mirage and importantly not really a 433 forward playing his spot well. And if this is an option year, I am also concerned about the subsequent years' roster and cap implications of being fooled. The funny thing to me was it was fair game to question whether Bruin's productivity first few games last season (when we scored 11 in 3) was an illusion or flattering but I have crossed some line in saying basically the same thing on Torres now. If you remember how that played out, the people who thought his initial flurry was flash in the pan proved right. He looked good in a frenetic offense -- but was actually a secondary contributor -- and when we were forced to slow it down he disappeared. I also think some of this is that when the wins emerge the kool aid comes out, and questioning becomes anathema. Even though the reality is that 12 teams make the playoffs but only 1 wins and the difference is often how much they have kept tweaking the team during the season.
Fair enough on the argument, I never said you don't say anything positive. I usually defend you, until you've gone on to long with consistent "critiques". I feel there is a time limit where all that happens is you have to pick every single battle there is fight instead of stating an opinion (which is all of us do), when the fact of the matter is we won 2 games out of 2 games.... this is a long season and you are already in mid season stride complaining about the performances of 3 players for whatever reason they may be. My suggestion and you can take it for whatever is worth, is to lay off a little bit. That's why I am saying chill out and enjoy the two wins... you treat performances in week 2 is cause for almost imploding of the season. I don't deny that there are people on here that will drink the kool aid. Their opinions tend to not matter because they don't post enough to hold any weight. We say wait and see because it's only week 2!!!!!! we have another 6 months and 30+ games to go, no one, but you is acting like we should be hitting the panic button on curtain players based on their performances, one of which joined the team roughly 2 months ago. I read roughly every post you put out, because there is dept and thought to it. I appreciate your opinion.
The backups do not have to be world class but they could at least be competent if not a future prospect. Particularly when the youngest starting defender is 29, Beasley has already missed a game, Leonardo has a face shield, most of them did not play full seasons last year, some have injury histories, etc. It's only good planning. I mean, for midfield bench we would all want players who are not just functional but ideally have talent and a future. The defense should be no different. Say No to Stiffs.
I think my posts are being misread. I actually see a team with a fair amount of promise still being held back by selection choices. I think we could be scoring 5 goals and allowing none with the right choices. I get with 2 wins y'all are like, selection choices? But not every game will be a win and I think I see within the wins which players are less effective, and if we lose later on will be the reason why. Deal with it now. Deal with it later. Deal with it later can have consequences. You look at the Texans, and I'd argue that the length of the delay subbing Savage in for Osweiler created a situation at the end of the season where the coach then acts like he can't start Plan B in the playoffs for lack of experience. Torres has had some Osweiler years even if this is not an Osweiler start, and my concern is that if he's starting in October, even if he's inefficient, that status quo momentum then makes him the playoff guy, and we're stuck. I feel like I already know how the movie ends and why not try the other guy who was scoring last season every other game, run of play, in his position. This is clearly not panic button. This is likely a playoff team. The question is how good of one. And I think precisely who starts and/or gets added will determine that. I think the intensity of response from me relates to me feeling like people are being some mix of irrational/emotional/naïve in the other direction. Like being dismissive of me for questioning a player with 2 goals in league in 3 years here, being clearly on track. I don't see it in his play for 90, and I think his goals are more isolated moments and not particularly housed within what you want from his position. It's frustration at people acting like I couldn't possibly have a point. I get they buy it. I don't. In previous years with Bruin I would have company, and that would not be a Crazy Position To Take. I would understand and probably would have shut up after, "you have a point but I disagree." But we have people acting like I'm an idiot for questioning whether a player who just got his first goal in orange in three years, could possibly be flash in pan right now. That's y'all swinging too far Kool-Aid, and when you do that anything critical I say is wrong, until you see it for yourselves. Then I get to watch y'all make my same points like I never said them.
I get some of your points and your thinking about Torres. Based on past play Manotas should have been starting, however; since Cubo is scoring AND is providing decent hold up / combination play. He is providing more than what Mauro has shown. We may be in a Bruin situation like last year where Cubo has some production early in the season and falls off later. We all groaned at what happened at the beginning of the season last year because we had seen years of Bruin and there wasn't any change in his play - he was just having some luck and took advantage. Cubo on the other hand is looking different than before. He's covering more ground, combing and holding up the ball better, standing up to the physical challenges better, and SCORING. We know he will never be as good in the air and a step slower than Mauro but right now he is getting the job done. Maybe the Mexican fans are sold he will be the the go to guy for the future but the rest of us are just hopeful he keeps improving. Mauro needs to improve on his combining / hold up play and standing up to the physical pounding a little better and I think he coukd beat out Torres. Hopefully we can play him more as a winger to at least get him more playing time
See here is a specific place I depart. I think Cubo is scoring on isolated shots. I think he is NOT playing the target role well. He had one nice flick header at the halfway last game and I was almost surprised by its exceptionality that it worked for a change. He has botched every cross into him. He holds onto the ball too long back to goal, doesn't do a quick flick or pass before the defense retreats. When Elis and Quioto get down the wings, they are often crossing to each other because Torres is not in position to be a target. Torres is playing defense decent but with our pressing scheme I think anyone in his spot would look good. He is actually not the fastest player to be executing the pressing strategy. And then like I said, I felt like Manotas had better flicks and tricks combining with people when he finally came in. I think some labeled it desperate but to me, he added a central element of combo passing and taking people on Torres hasn't been doing. To me, Torres is at his best dawdling in space actually behind the play waiting for a wide open look. The wings clear more space for him to trot into. So I think he is more the beneficiary of the system and the wings and less like he figured something out. In short, I feel like he is being effective and productive, yes, but not actually within the normal confines of a 433 central striker, at least not on offense. To be fair -- maybe the issue the past couple years was he had to play a true target and he isn't one. However, if this progresses into the playoffs and you have a Faux 9 you may get exposed for it. Added thought, having watched Torres get outjumped for headers repeatedly, maybe we need to trade for a big lunk striker who can come off the bench as a tactical wrinkle. Part of this may be as a Ching fan he is simply no Brian Ching and any suggestion otherwise perhaps should have a trigger warning.
All due respect we did dwindle down to 19th place. And I recall, say, last year, where I thought the offseason was abysmal GM work but people straightlined the improvement trend from the past season and were surprised we went back to sucking.
I agree a little bit with what you're implying. I do think that Torres played a good game against Columbus, though I think that he is not performing as good as he should. Manotas may be a better option, but then again, maybe he wouldn't be. All that I know is that Cubo has scored two goals in two games, and has contributed to the other goals through immeasurable ways off of the ball, that cannot be measured by stats at this point, and you have to keep that going by starting him. He may improve.
100% true. And there are measurable ways. Like on the corner kick that we scored on. Go back an watch that play and you will see that Cubo starts at around the PK spot with the rest of the scrum. When he positions himself towards the near post, not one--not two-- but THREE defenders go with him. This provides an insane amount of space for Elis to slot in and deftly send it home. No alternative universe exists where if Manotas was in the game, three defenders would move to shut him down thus allowing Elis the time and space to score. Teams are clearly worried about Cubo and game plan for him. If he is creating opportunities for others to score, and they do; then that's just as good as him scoring. He's not perfect so you will always be able to point out a negative, but I'll take his play so far these past two weeks every single week of the year. PS Haters be hatin!!
How do I put this, before the goals, yeah, I hear the announcers suggesting this or that run clears space for someone else, but how long would you play someone who was not doing well on the ball as a striker, based on the idea he's helping off the ball with runs. Particularly at a production position like forward. People need to understand I see this as a "one shot" team that will have to be rebuilt soon after the season is over. So you have to get it as right as possible because there won't be second chances. Also, Torres has stunk until this year, and if it's an option year, if he convinces people with "contract year" play, you bought him for two more years. He better be actually that good. If he's turning into the 15 goal guy he was, I will shut up over time as he shows me. This is still his first run of play goal in the shirt in three years. I am skeptical. I am not sure I want an isolated playoff shot in his hands, if he renders the offense a simultaneously dangerous but disconnected mess. I think he is one specific reason we can't possess, other being lack of a 10. I'm also definitely not exercising his options now based on two goals, and I am surprised the sort of people who weren't sure about Bruin's streaks or weren't sure that even the first game of this season meant something, can be snowed by two games almost out of character (to me). At minimum I'd expect some of you to be parsing the production from the play, and saying, I like how he produces so get over it Juve, but yeah, you're right, he needs to be better on the ball for us, for the tougher games. [The teams we've played so far have 2 points total.]
Are they? I don't think anyone is "game-planning" for him. Honestly, in this league you line up your best 11 and every once in a while you game plan for a specific player (Giovinco, Ladero, even Higuain). The players that teams game plan for are the players that drift in and out of spots and are hard to track. They are the ones who become dangerous when you least expect it. With Cubo, the CBs are told to keep him in front of you and don't let him shoot. Now the two Hondurans, those guys you might have to game plan against. You don't want them to isolate players one on one, especially if a foot race is involved. And the fact that they can beat you on either side makes them even more dangerous (somewhat unique for this league). I hope I become wrong and he continues to advance his game.
Let's be real, I feel like Alexander or Remick are far more problematic than Torres. But if I said those two, or at least the former, few would even blink. I dunno, apparently Remick has some fans too. Torres is in fact a closer call but in internet terms that tends to make for more passionate discussion.
Let's be real here as well, this "off ball" stuff we're talking about is usually in the context of some other player who is more consistently creative, Elis, Quioto, Alex, steaming down the field, running at someone, perhaps numbers up, and in that context some CB has to make a choice when Torres drifts. Dead balls, team sitting back with plenty of numbers, game plan. I don't see Torres doing a lot then. What I see Torres doing more in, is we press and win some ball and counter with speed and there are not numbers back and your hand is forced and you have to make split second decisions on positioning and who to follow. That is a combination of defensive IQ, fitness, and ad hoc decision making. You are not game planning for how to defend a 3v3 counter. You either have the right personnel and they are fresh enough to handle it, or not. But in the situations where the defense is back, we are on our own end, Leonardo hoofs a ball Torres' way, and they practiced all week who marks, and who covers if he drifts, he is losing the ball, not opening space. That is game plan. I think you have it backwards, he is doing better in improvised situations where the defense is on its heels and desperate. This is caused by the formation and the efforts of Elis and Quioto. I think the previous two years are what happens when he is expected to play a disciplined target role for which both teams try to game plan. When you can see Torres coming. He is not a McBride or Ching who you can see coming and he still backs you down and gets either a pass or shot. He is not tall, he is not fast, he is not strong. He won't beat you even if you see him coming. He is sneaky when you have a lot to think about. He is a fast break player who does better when discipline is broken down. Question I have, is in some playoff game where it becomes more half court soccer, are we going to revert to last season's Torres, who can't get the ball enough and produce in a pure target role. Which also gets at questions people have raised about whether we can maintain our pressing and energy level like this in the heat, or in the playoffs against good teams. We shall see.
Last thought, I was going to ask, how will Torres fare if Quioto and Elis are called up and the B team wings play. But then it occurred to me Boniek from the B team probably gets called too, based on this week's selection. So at least one flaw I see in the personnel plan is that not only do we have a few players from one NT side that might get called up, but they are 1-1/2 levels of the depth chart. Boniek is here to come in for Quioto, but may get called up same time. In the normal situation you play next man up but the next man follows them out the door. It's gonna be Wenger and who if the three Hondurans get called? So it's not that we have players who could get called, but the specific way this would play out. Questionable concept having a Honduran international bench option for a Honduran international. Number one depth problem I see because this is wing driven. Up there with defense and CDM quality depth.
International call ups are going to sting real bad this year. Don't know exactly how we'll navigate through that. Will be interesting to see.