I have tried to do an XI too now (it was more the reserves I'd be undecided on than the first XI anyway): GK - Toldo (Oliver Kahn) SW - Blanc (Ivan Helguera) CB - Nesta (Cannavaro) RB - Cafu (Jocelyn Angloma) LB - Maldini (R.Carlos) CM/DM - Redondo (Vieira) RM - Beckham (Gaizka Mendieta) CM/AM - Zidane (Riquelme) LM - Figo (Pavel Nedved) Trequarista - Totti (Raul) Striker - Shevchenko (Crespo) Extra - Veron And an XI with subs for a theoretical game: 1 - Francesco Toldo (Fiorentina/Italy) 2 - Cafu (Roma/Brazil) 3 - Paolo Maldini (AC Milan/Italy) 4 - Laurent Blanc (Inter Milan/France) 5 - Alessandro Nesta (Lazio/Italy) 6 - Fernando Redondo (Real Madrid/Argentina) 7 - David Beckham (Manchester United/England) 8 - Zinedine Zidane (Juventus/France) 9 - Andriy Shevchenko (AC Milan/Ukraine) 10 - Francesco Totti (Roma/Italy) 11 - Luis Figo (Barcelona/Portugal) Subs: 12 - Lilian Thuram (Parma/France) 13 - Oliver Kahn (Bayern Munich/Germany) 14 - Roberto Carlos (Real Madrid/Brazil) 15 - Patrick Vieira (Arsenal/France) 16 - Juan Sebastian Veron (Lazio/Argentina) 17 - Raul (Real Madrid/Spain) 18 - Hernan Crespo (Parma/Argentina)
Actually, with apologies to Mendieta, since I'm less satisfied Figo can go on the left for a Team of the Year/Season as compared to 1997 (or 96/97), I'll change it to.... RM - Figo (Beckham) and LM - Nedved (Harry Kewell) I think I'll leave my attempt at a 2000 best select XI with subs the same, but am also tempted by putting Nedved in that too likewise, and then probably moving Beckham to the bench instead of Vieira or Veron.
1990's revised lists and rankings: [*] Made by Tom Stevens 1990 BAGGIO, Roberto (Italy & Fiorentina) BARESI, Franco (Italy & AC Milan) BARNES, John (England & Liverpool) BERGOMI, Giuseppe (Italy & Inter Milan) BREHME, Andreas (Germany & Inter Milan) GASCOIGNE, Paul (England & Tottenham Hotspur) KLINSMANN, Jürgen (Germany & Inter Milan) KOHLER, Jürgen (Germany & Bayern Munich) LINEKER, Gary (England & Tottenham Hotspur) MARADONA, Diego (Argentina & Napoli) MARTÍN VÁZQUEZ, Rafael (Spain & Real Madrid) MATTHÄUS, Lothar (Germany & Inter Milan) PAPIN, Jean-Pierre (France & Olympique de Marseille) PLATT, David (England & Aston Villa) RIJKAARD, Frank (Netherlands & AC Milan) SÁNCHEZ, Hugo (Mexico & Real Madrid) SCHILLACI, Salvatore (Italy & Juventus) SKUHRAVY, Tomás (Czechoslovakia & Sparta Prague) STOJKOVIC, Dragan (Yugoslavia & Red Star Belgrade) VAN BASTEN, Marco (Netherlands & AC Milan) VÖLLER, Rudi (Germany & AS Roma) WADDLE, Chris (England & Olympique de Marseille) ZENGA, Walter (Italy & Inter Milan) 1) MATTHÄUS, Lothar 2) MARADONA, Diego 3) BARESI, Franco 1991 BAGGIO, Roberto (Italy & Juventus) BARESI, Franco (Italy & AC Milan) BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Boca Juniors) BERGKAMP, Dennis (Netherlands & Ajax) BERGOMI, Giuseppe (Italy & Inter Milan) BOLI, Basile (France & Olympique de Marseille) GASCOIGNE, Paul (England & Tottenham Hotspur) GOIKOETXEA, Andoni (Spain & Barcelona) LAUDRUP, Michael (Denmark & Barcelona) MALDINI, Paolo (Italy & AC Milan) MANCINI, Roberto (Italy & Sampdoria) MATTHÄUS, Lothar (Germany & Inter Milan) PANCEV, Darko (Yugoslavia & Red Star Belgrade) PAPIN, Jean-Pierre (France & Olympique de Marseille) PROSINECKI, Robert (Yugoslavia & Red Star Belgrade) RIJKAARD, Frank (Netherlands & AC Milan) ROMÁRIO (Brazil & PSV Eindhoven) RUGGERI, Óscar (Argentina & Vélez Sarsfield) SAVICEVIC, Dejan (Yugoslavia & Red Star Belgrade) STOICHKOV, Hristo (Bulgaria & Barcelona) VIALLI, Gianluca (Italy & Sampdoria) VIERCHOWOD, Pietro (Italy & Sampdoria) WADDLE, Chris (England & Olympique de Marseille) 1) SAVICEVIC, Dejan 2) MATTHÄUS, Lothar 3) PAPIN, Jean-Pierre 1992 BAGGIO, Roberto (Italy & Juventus) BARESI, Franco (Italy & AC Milan) BERGKAMP, Dennis (Netherlands & Ajax) BRATSETH, Rune (Norway & Werder Bremen) BROLIN, Tomas (Sweden & Parma) BUCHWALD, Guido (Germany & Stuttgart) FUTRE, Paulo (Portugal & Atlético de Madrid) HÄSSLER, Thomas (Germany & AS Roma) KOEMAN, Ronald (Netherlands & Barcelona) KOHLER, Jürgen (Germany & Juventus) LAUDRUP, Brian (Denmark & Bayern Munich) LAUDRUP, Michael (Denmark & Barcelona) MALDINI, Paolo (Italy & AC Milan) PANCEV, Darko (Yugoslavia & Red Star Belgrade) PAPIN, Jean-Pierre (France & Olympique de Marseille) PELÉ, Abedi (Ghana & Olympique de Marseille) RAÍ (Brazil & Sao Paulo) RIJKAARD, Frank (Netherlands & AC Milan) SAMMER, Matthias (Germany & Stuttgart) SCHMEICHEL, Peter (Denmark & Manchester United) STOICHKOV, Hristo (Bulgaria & Barcelona) VAN BASTEN, Marco (Netherlands & AC Milan) VIALLI, Gianluca (Italy & Sampdoria) 1) LAUDRUP, Michael 2) VAN BASTEN, Marco 3) STOICHKOV, Hristo 1993 ASPRILLA, Faustino (Colombia & Parma) BAGGIO, Roberto (Italy & Juventus) BARESI, Franco (Italy & AC Milan) BEBETO (Brazil & Deportivo La Coruña) BERGKAMP, Dennis (Netherlands & Ajax) BOKSIC, Alen (Croatia & Olympique de Marseille) BRATSETH, Rune (Norway & Werder Bremen) CANTONA, Éric (France & Manchester United) CHAPUISAT, Stéphane (Switzerland & Borussia Dortmund) DESAILLY, Marcel (France & Olympique de Marseille) ETCHEVERRY, Marco (Bolivia & Albacete) GIGGS, Ryan (Wales & Manchester United) KOEMAN, Ronald (Netherlands & Barcelona) LAUDRUP, Michael (Denmark & Barcelona) MALDINI, Paolo (Italy & AC Milan) McGRATH, Paul (Ireland & Aston Villa) RAÍ (Brazil & Sao Paulo) ROMÁRIO (Brazil & PSV Eindhoven) SIGNORI, Giuseppe (Italy & Lazio) SOSA, Rubén (Uruguay & Inter Milan) STOICHKOV, Hristo (Bulgaria & Barcelona) VALDERRAMA, Carlos (Colombia & Junior) VÖLLER, Rudi (Germany & Olympique de Marseille) 1) BAGGIO, Roberto 2) LAUDRUP, Michael 3) BERGKAMP, Dennis 1994 ALBERTINI, Demetrio (Italy & AC Milan) BAGGIO, Roberto (Italy & Juventus) BALAKOV, Krasimir (Bulgaria & Sporting CP) BARESI, Franco (Italy & AC Milan) BEBETO (Brazil & Deportivo La Coruña) BERGKAMP, Dennis (Netherlands & Inter Milan) BROLIN, Tomas (Sweden & Parma) CANTONA, Éric (France & Manchester United) DESAILLY, Marcel (France & AC Milan) DUNGA (Brazil & Stuttgart) GIGGS, Ryan (Wales & Manchester United) GINOLA, David (France & Paris Saint-Germain) GULLIT, Ruud (Netherlands & Sampdoria) HAGI, Gheorghe (Romania & Brescia) HÄSSLER, Thomas (Germany & AS Roma) KLINSMANN, Germany (Germany & AS Monaco) KOEMAN, Ronald (Netherlands & Barcelona) LITMANEN, Jari (Finland & Ajax) MALDINI, Paolo (Italy & AC Milan) MAURO SILVA (Brazil & Deportivo La Coruña) PREUD'HOMME, Michel (Belgium & Mechelen) ROMÁRIO (Brazil & Barcelona) STOICHKOV, Hristo (Bulgaria & Barcelona) 1) ROMÁRIO 2) BAGGIO, Roberto 3) STOICHKOV, Hristo 1995 AMAVISCA, José Emilio (Spain & Real Madrid) BASLER, Mario (Germany & Werder Bremen) BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Fiorentina) BLIND, Danny (Netherlands & Ajax) DE BOER, Frank (Netherlands & Ajax) FERRARA, Ciro (Italy & Juventus) FRANCESCOLI, Enzo (Uruguay & River Plate) KLINSMANN, Jürgen (Germany & Tottenham Hotspur) LAUDRUP, Brian (Denmark & Rangers) LAUDRUP, Michael (Denmark & Real Madrid) LE TISSIER, Matt (England & Southampton) LITMANEN, Jari (Finland & Ajax) MALDINI, Paolo (Italy & AC Milan) MÖLLER, Andreas (Germany & Borussia Dortmund) RIJKAARD, Frank (Netherlands & Ajax) RONALDO (Brazil & PSV Eindhoven) SAMMER, Matthias (Germany & Borussia Dortmund) SAVICEVIC, Dejan (Yugoslavia & AC Milan) SHEARER, Alan (England & Blackburn Rovers) VIALLI, Gianluca (Italy & Juventus) WEAH, George (Liberia & Paris Saint-Germain) ZAMORANO, Iván (Chile & Real Madrid) ZOLA, Gianfranco (Italy & Parma) 1) LITMANEN, Jari 2) LAUDRUP, Michael 3) KLINSMANN, Jürgen 1996 BARESI, Franco (Italy & AC Milan) BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Fiorentina) BLANC, Laurent (France & Auxerre) BLIND, Danny (Netherlands & Ajax) CANTONA, Éric (France & Manchester United) CHILAVERT, José Luis (Paraguay & Vélez Sarsfield) DEL PIERO, Alessandro (Italy & Juventus) DESAILLY, Marcel (France & AC Milan) GINOLA, David (France & Newcastle United) GULLIT, Ruud (Netherlands & Chelsea) KANCHELSKIS, Andrei (Russia & Everton) KLINSMANN, Jürgen (Germany & Bayern Munich) LITMANEN, Jari (Finland & Ajax) MALDINI, Paolo (Italy & AC Milan) MIJATOVIC, Predrag (Yugoslavia & Valencia) ORTEGA, Ariel (Argentina & River Plate) RONALDO (Brazil & PSV Eindhoven) SAMMER, Matthias (Germany & Borussia Dortmund) SAVICEVIC, Dejan (Yugoslavia & AC Milan) SCHOLL, Mehmet (Germany & Bayern Munich) SHEARER, Alan (England & Blackburn Rovers) SUKER, Davor (Croatia & Sevilla) WEAH, George (Liberia & AC Milan) 1) WEAH, George 2) LITMANEN, Jari 3) SAMMER, Matthias 1997 BERGKAMP, Dennis (Netherlands & Arsenal) DESCHAMPS, Didier (France & Juventus) EDMUNDO (Brazil & Vasco da Gama) FIGO, Luís (Portugal & Barcelona) HIERRO, Fernando (Spain & Real Madrid) JUNINHO Paulista (Brazil & Middlesbrough) KOHLER, Jürgen (Germany & Borussia Dortmund) LUIS ENRIQUE (Spain & Barcelona) MIJATOVIC, Predrag (Yugoslavia & Real Madrid) RAÚL (Spain & Real Madrid) REDONDO, Fernando (Argentina & Real Madrid) RIVALDO (Brazil & Deportivo La Coruña) ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil & Real Madrid) ROMÁRIO (Brazil & Flamengo) RONALDO (Brazil & Barcelona) SALAS, Marcelo (Chile & River Plate) SAMMER, Matthias (Germany & Borussia Dortmund) SEEDORF, Clarence (Netherlands & Real Madrid) SHEARER, Alan (England & Newcastle United) SUKER, Davor (Croatia & Real Madrid) THURAM, Lilian (France & Parma) ZIDANE, Zinedine (France & Juventus) ZOLA, Gianfranco (Italy & Chelsea) 1) RONALDO 2) ZOLA, Gianfranco 3) SUKER, Davor 1998 BAGGIO, Roberto (Italy & Bologna) BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Fiorentina) BECKHAM, David (England & Manchester United) BERGKAMP, Dennis (Netherlands & Arsenal) BIERHOFF, Oliver (Germany & Udinese) BLANC, Laurent (France & Olympique de Marseille) DAVIDS, Edgar (Netherlands & Juventus) DEL PIERO, Alessandro (Italy & Juventus) FIGO, Luís (Portugal & Barcelona) HIERRO, Fernando (Spain & Real Madrid) NEDVED, Pavel (Czech Republic & Lazio) NESTA, Alessandro (Italy & Lazio) OWEN, Michael (England & Liverpool) REDONDO, Fernando (Argentina & Real Madrid) RIVALDO (Brazil & Barcelona) ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil & Real Madrid) RONALDO (Brazil & Inter Milan) RUI COSTA (Portugal & Fiorentina) SALAS, Marcelo (Chile & River Plate) SUKER, Davor (Croatia & Real Madrid) THURAM, Lilian (France & Parma) VIERI, Christian (Italy & Atlético de Madrid) ZIDANE, Zinedine (France & Juventus) 1) RONALDO 2) ZIDANE, Zinedine 3) BERGKAMP, Dennis 1999 AMOROSO, Márcio (Brazil & Udinese) BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Fiorentina) BECKHAM, David (England & Manchester United) BLANC, Laurent (France & Olympique de Marseille) BOBAN, Zvonimir (Croatia & AC Milan) EFFENBERG, Stefan (Germany & Bayern Munich) FIGO, Luís (Portugal & Barcelona) GIGGS, Ryan (Wales & Manchester United) KEANE, Roy (Ireland & Manchester United) MALDINI, Paolo (Italy & AC Milan) MATTHÄUS, Lothar (Germany & Bayern Munich) NESTA, Alessandro (Italy & Lazio) RAÚL (Spain & Real Madrid) RIVALDO (Brazil & Barcelona) RONALDO (Brazil & Inter Milan) RUI COSTA (Portugal & Fiorentina) SCHOLES, Paul (England & Manchester United) SHEVCHENKO, Andriy (Ukraine & Dynamo Kyiv) STAM, Jaap (Netherlands & Manchester United) THURAM, Lilian (France & Parma) VERÓN, Juan Sebastián (Argentina & Parma) VIEIRA, Patrick (France & Arsenal) YORKE, Dwight (Trinidad and Tobago & Manchester United) 1) RIVALDO 2) FIGO, Luís 3) BECKHAM, David
Revised teams of the decade. 1 point for making the 23 and an extra point for being in the top 3: Team A P. Schmeichel (1) J. Kohler (3) ------- F. Baresi (7) L. Thuram (3) ------------------------------------------------ P. Maldini (7) F. Rijkaard (4) ----- L. Matthäus (5) J. Litmanen (5) -------------------------- M. Laudrup (7) Ronaldo (7) ---- R. Baggio (8) Team B J. Chilavert (1) M. Sammer (5) --- L. Blanc (3) ---------- M. Desailly (3) G. Bergomi (2) ---------------------------------------------------- R. Carlos (2) F. Redondo (2) L. Figo (4) --------------------------------- Rivaldo (4) D. Bergkamp (8) ----- Romário (5) Others (over 2 points at overall): R. Koeman (3), D. Beckham (3), R. Giggs (3), D. Savicevic (4), Z. Zidane (3), H. Stoichkov (6), É. Cantona (3), G. Batistuta (5), J. Klinsmann (5), J. Papin (4), D. Suker (4), M. van Basten (3), G. Weah (3), A. Shearer (3), G. Vialli (3). P.D.: Not very emphatic in the system as much as in the selection of individualities.
I must make a correction. I forgot to replace the last top 3 (1999) from my first sketch to the definitive: 1) RIVALDO 2) BECKHAM, David 3) BATISTUTA, Gabriel Although to be honest, I think only Rivaldo occupy his place (1st) clearly. From the 2nd place I think there is a very close parity amongst Batistuta, Beckham, Figo, Keane and Shevchenko. This change would cause Batistuta to replace Romário in the team B of the 1990's by points.
1990's most appearances: 07 - MALDINI, Paolo (Italy) 06 - BAGGIO, Roberto (Italy) 06 - BARESI, Franco (Italy) 06 - BERGKAMP, Dennis (Netherlands) 05 - BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina) 05 - RONALDO (Brazil) 04 - KLINSMANN, Jürgen (Germany) 04 - LAUDRUP, Michael (Denmark) 04 - RIJKAARD, Frank (Netherlands) 04 - ROMÁRIO (Brazil) 04 - SAMMER, Matthias (Germany) 04 - STOICHKOV, Hristo (Bulgaria) 03 - BLANC, Laurent (France) 03 - CANTONA, Éric (France) 03 - DESAILLY, Marcel (France) 03 - FIGO, Luís (Portugal) 03 - GIGGS, Ryan (Wales) 03 - KOEMAN, Ronald (Netherlands) 03 - KOHLER, Jürgen (Germany) 03 - LITMANEN, Jari (Finland) 03 - MATTHÄUS, Lothar (Germany) 03 - PAPIN, Jean-Pierre (France) 03 - RIVALDO (Brazil) 03 - SAVICEVIC, Dejan (Yugoslavia) 03 - SHEARER, Alan (England) 03 - SUKER, Davor (Croatia) 03 - THURAM, Lilian (France) 03 - VIALLI, Gianluca (Italy) 1990's most appearances by nationality: 38 - Italy 25 - Germany 23 - Brazil 23 - Netherlands 22 - France 15 - England 11 - Argentina 09 - Yugoslavia 08 - Spain 07 - Denmark 06 - Portugal 05 - Bulgaria 05 - Croatia 03 - Chile 03 - Finland 03 - Wales 1990's most appearances by club: 25 - AC Milan (Italy) 19 - Barcelona (Spain) 17 - Real Madrid (Spain) 14 - Juventus (Italy) 13 - Manchester United (England) 12 - Olympique de Marseille (France) 11 - Inter Milan (Italy) 10 - Ajax (Netherlands) 08 - Parma (Italy) 07 - Fiorentina (Italy) 06 - Bayern Munich (Germany) 06 - Borussia Dortmund (Germany) 05 - Red Star Belgrade (Serbia) 05 - Sampdoria (Italy) 04 - Deportivo La Coruña (Spain) 04 - Lazio (Italy) 04 - PSV Eindhoven (Netherlands) 04 - River Plate (Argentina) 04 - Tottenham Hotspur (England) 03 - Arsenal (England) 03 - AS Roma (Italy) 03 - Stuttgart (Germany) 03 - Werder Bremen (Germany)
1920-1999 most appearances: 13 - PUSKÁS, Ferenc (Hungary) 12 - CRUYFF, Johan (Netherlands) 12 - DI STÉFANO, Alfredo (Argentina) 12 - PELÉ (Brazil) 10 - BARESI, Franco (Italy) 10 - BECKENBAUER, Franz (Germany) 10 - MARADONA, Diego (Argentina) 10 - ZICO (Brazil) 09 - BICAN, Josef (Austria) 09 - MORENO, José Manuel (Argentina) 09 - PLATINI, Michel (France) 09 - SASTRE, Antonio (Argentina) 08 - MALDINI, Paolo (Italy) 08 - MATTHÄUS, Lothar (Germany) 08 - SCHIAFFINO, Juan Alberto (Uruguay) 08 - ZIZINHO (Brazil) 07 - CHARLTON, Bobby (England) 07 - JULINHO (Brazil) 07 - MATTHEWS, Stanley (England) 07 - MEAZZA, Giuseppe (Italy) 07 - MORTON, Alan (Scotland) 07 - ORSI, Raimundo (Argentina) 07 - PEDERNERA, Adolfo (Argentina) 07 - SÁROSI, György (Hungary) 06 - ADEMIR da Guia (Brazil) 06 - BAGGIO, Roberto (Italy) 06 - BASTIN, Cliff (England) 06 - BERGKAMP, Dennis (Netherlands) 06 - BEST, George (Northern Ireland) 06 - CUBILLAS, Teófilo (Peru) 06 - DIDI (Brazil) 06 - DOMINGOS da Guia (Brazil) 06 - FALCAO, Paulo Roberto (Brazil) 06 - FIGUEROA, Elías (Chile) 06 - GALLACHER, Hughie (Scotland) 06 - GARRINCHA (Brazil) 06 - GÓMEZ, Walter (Uruguay) 06 - GULLIT, Ruud (Netherlands) 06 - JAIRZINHO (Brazil) 06 - JÚNIOR (Brazil) 06 - KOEMAN, Ronald (Netherlands) 06 - KOPA, Raymond (France) 06 - KROL, Ruud (Netherlands) 06 - LABRUNA, Ángel (Argentina) 06 - LAWTON, Tommy (England) 06 - LEÓNIDAS (Brazil) 06 - MAZZOLA, Valentino (Italy) 06 - McGRORY, Jimmy (Scotland) 06 - MÜLLER, Gerd (Germany) 06 - NASAZZI, José (Uruguay) 06 - NORDAHL, Gunnar (Sweden) 06 - PASSARELLA, Daniel (Argentina) 06 - PESEK, Karel (Czechoslovakia) 06 - RIJKAARD, Frank (Netherlands) 06 - RIVELINO, Roberto (Brazil) 06 - RUMMENIGGE, Karl-Heinz (Germany) 06 - SCARONE, Héctor (Uruguay) 06 - SINDELAR, Matthias (Austria) 06 - SUÁREZ, Luis (Spain) 06 - VAN BASTEN, Marco (Netherlands) 06 - ZSENGELLÉR, Gyula (Hungary) 05 - ADEMIR de Menezes (Brazil) 05 - ANDRADE, José Leandro (Uruguay) 05 - BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina) 05 - BOZSIK, József (Hungary) 05 - BUCHAN, Charlie (England) 05 - CARTER, Raich (England) 05 - COLUNA, Mário (Portugal) 05 - DZAJIC, Dragan (Yugoslavia) 05 - EUSÉBIO (Portugal) 05 - FERRARI, Giovanni (Italy) 05 - GARCÍA, Atilio (Uruguay) 05 - JACK, David (England) 05 - JAIR (Brazil) 05 - KLINSMANN, Jürgen (Germany) 05 - LAUDRUP, Michael (Denmark) 05 - LIEDHOLM, Nils (Sweden) 05 - MAZZOLA, Sandro (Italy) 05 - MÉNDEZ, Norberto (Argentina) 05 - MOORE, Bobby (England) 05 - NEJEDLY, Oldrich (Czechoslovakia) 05 - ORTH, György (Hungary) 05 - PIOLA, Silvio (Italy) 05 - PLÁNICKA, Frantisek (Czechoslovakia) 05 - PUC, Antonín (Czechoslovakia) 05 - RIVA, Luigi (Italy) 05 - ROBERTO DINAMITE (Brazil) 05 - ROMÁRIO (Brazil) 05 - RONALDO (Brazil) 05 - SÍVORI, Omar (Argentina) 05 - SPENCER, Alberto (Ecuador) 05 - VARELA, Obdulio (Uruguay) 05 - VOGTS, Berti (Germany) 05 - WALKER, Billy (England) 05 - WALTER, Fritz (Germany) 05 - YASHIN, Lev (Soviet Union) 05 - ZAMORA, Ricardo (Spain)
It pains me a bit to ask this but do you think Ronaldo Luis is a certainty for 1999? He did very well at the Copa America (where most played with B/C teams), without reaching 1997 heights, but his club season was sub par, relative to his team mates, and heavily criticized. As recently touched upon by Vegan10, this hurt his chances in the all-time lists by the end of 1999. As opposed to e.g. MvB around 1990 and some other mid-career players at specific points in time. I don't think however this is a 'free pass', or received as many of them, as some other names have received. I also know that it is not easy to find the right balance. For the Premier League the Man United players cannot be overlooked, even though domestically Campbell and Bergkamp had strong things going for them (as supported by the OPTA Index, as posted in the EPL ratings thread - in the OPTA Index those two stood by a margin above the rest in their own position).
Not really. Ronaldo was one of the last players I included and is surely one of the more dubious rooms of 1999. I understand what you mention. The 1998-99 season was disappointing for Inter Milan in general and marred by some injuries Ronaldo could only play 19 games in Serie A. Although some point out that despite that he was the top scorer of his team with 14 goals, 7 of them were penalties, so, in theory, his records are nothing impressive. On the other hand, I reviewed some of his matches (I was especially interested in reviewing the best of him and Zidane this season) and he gave me the feeling that despite all that he continued to show some not so infrequent cool sparks, but affected about effectiveness for a group issue many times (some very good performances were against Fiorentina, Udinese and AS Roma in the last quarter of the season, when he was more regular). In that context I think Ronaldo was very irregular at club level, but with a very interesting conserved potential as the best attacker in the world. By itself, wouldn't be enough to include him, but the Copa América ended up pushing him considerably in better conditions. I'd have to say about that tournament that could be a bit exaggerated to say that the most teams went with their B/C teams, but with A/B mixtures, and Brazil only had an easy rival in their debut match against Venezuela, then I think had very good clashes against Mexico (twice), Chile (only without Salas) and Argentina (with a similar mix of players than Brazil) before the final. Said all that, it's true I think other players could dispute a place in the list, especially the ones you mention, Campbell and Bergkamp, besides Matías Almeyda, Zinedine Zidane, Oliver Bierhoff, Hernán Crespo, Bixente Lizarazu, Sinisa Mihajlovic, Michael Owen, Francesco Totti and my biggest doubts due to their considerations: David Ginola and Christian Vieri, among a few others, but Ronaldo doesn't seem me a bad choice finally.
By what measure had Argentina an A-team? For instance the ones to get ESM XI selections and Ballon d'Or votes were Batistuta, Veron, Claudio Lopez, Hernan Crespo and Roa. None of their ESM candidates were in the 1999 squad. Brazil on the other hand had all of their major stars on board (Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Roberto Carlos). Rivaldo was player of the tournament. Now I understand that the 1999CA might create room for him, but 7 goals in 19 league games (at higher league goals per game) is a record for which other historically great strikers have been omitted. Then I mean individually capable forwards as Eusebio, MvB andsoforth. And I think the array of 1999/2000 all-time lists came at a wrong moment for him.
I didn't say that Argentina played with their A team, but with a similar mix of players (A/B) than Brazil. Against the Brazilian team they lined up to Ayala, Samuel, Sorín, Zanetti, Simeone and Ortega, all of them regular players of the A team, 6 of 11 (more than a half) (Brazil played with 5 or 6 of 11). From the way you approach it might look different because those who weren't were mainly the attackers (Batistuta, Crespo and Claudio López) and a playmaker (Verón), the most famous, so the feeling of absence is greater, but in terms of overall structure the base was the A team with the addition of some new rising figures (Riquelme, Kily González and Palermo). It wasn't really a B/C team, it would be exaggerated to classify it as such. Finally, I just watched again the whole match to refresh the memory and my impression is that the competition had a good level, not a reduced or inferior to a continental tournament. To be fair, I wouldn't completely omit the penalty goals in his case because, but I'm wrong, most of them made by himself due to his abilities and/or the difficulty of opponents to stop him. For example, seems me that Ronaldo had a very good performance in this match against Fiorentina (he scored 2 goals by penalties): What is certain is that if were another older player whose I couldn't see his matches in detail may have greater difficulty in perceiving the same and I could decide differently by deduction/assumption.
Well, I don't doubt Ronaldo is #1 for 1995 - 2005, and this is flogging to a dead horse (and against the united latin cabal you cannot win) but to illustrate the point: Ronaldo in 1998-99 has a DBScalcio rating of 6.08 and a 'corrected'* rating of 6.46. MvB in his worst season 1990-91 has a rating of 6.06 and a corrected rating of 6.57 (although Serie A was slightly different). Other legendary strikers would just be excluded for such a 1998-99 club season. Of course an attacker of Ronaldo his level is capable of showing flashes and sparks even in a down season, and despite injuries. Corrected = (*) L'indice DBS è un valore che esprime il rendimento del giocatore in relazione all'influenza che egli ha avuto sulle vittorie della squadra.
This is my first sketch for 2000: BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Fiorentina) CRESPO, Hernán (Argentina & Parma) DAVIDS, Edgar (Netherlands & Juventus) ÉMERSON (Brazil & Bayer Leverkusen) FIGO, Luís (Portugal & Barcelona) JARDEL, Mário (Brazil & Porto) KAHN, Oliver (Germany & Bayern Munich) KEANE, Roy (Ireland & Manchester United) MENDIETA, Gaizka (Spain & Valencia) NEDVED, Pavel (Czech Republic & Lazio) NESTA, Alessandro (Italy & Lazio) PHILLIPS, Kevin (England & Sunderland) RAÚL (Spain & Real Madrid) REDONDO, Fernando (Argentina & Real Madrid) RIVALDO (Brazil & Barcelona) ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil & Real Madrid) SHEVCHENKO, Andriy (Ukraine & AC Milan) STAM, Jaap (Netherlands & Manchester United) THURAM, Lilian (France & Parma) TOLDO, Francesco (Italy & Fiorentina) TOTTI, Francesco (Italy & AS Roma) VERÓN, Juan Sebastián (Argentina & Lazio) ZIDANE, Zinedine (France & Juventus) My tentative podium is composed of Zidane, Figo and Shevchenko, only half a step in front of Rivaldo (despite his positional problems), Raúl, Verón, Nesta, Totti and perhaps Batistuta. Honorable mentions: ABELARDO (Spain & Barcelona) AIMAR, Pablo (Argentina & River Plate) BARTHEZ, Fabien (France & AS Monaco) BECKHAM, David (England & Manchester United) BLANC, Laurent (France & Inter Milan) BUFFON, Gianluigi (Italy & Parma) CAFU (Brazil & AS Roma) CANNAVARO, Fabio (Italy & Parma) CASILLAS, Íker (Spain & Real Madrid) CATANHA (Spain & Málaga) COLE, Andy (England & Manchester United) CÓRDOBA, Óscar (Colombia & Boca Juniors) DJALMINHA (Brazil & Deportivo La Coruña) EFFENBERG, Stefan (Germany & Bayern Munich) FIORE, Stefano (Italy & Udinese) GALLARDO, Marcelo (Argentina & AS Monaco) GERARD (Spain & Valencia) GUARDIOLA, Josep (Spain & Barcelona) HASSELBAINK, Jimmy Floyd (Netherlands & Atlético de Madrid) HENRY, Thierry (France & Arsenal) HYYPIÄ, Sami (Finland & Liverpool) KEWELL, Harry (Australia & Leeds United) KLUIVERT, Patrick (Netherlands & Barcelona) MAKAAY, Roy (Netherlands & Deportivo La Coruña) MALDINI, Paolo (Italy & AC Milan) MAURO SILVA (Brazil & Deportivo La Coruña) McMANAMAN, Steve (England & Real Madrid) MIHAJLOVIC, Sinisa (Yugoslavia & Lazio) MILOSEVIC, Savo (Serbia & Real Zaragoza) RIQUELME, Juan Román (Argentina & Boca Juniors) ROMÁRIO (Brazil & Vasco da Gama) SALVA (Spain & Racing de Santander) SAVIOLA, Javier (Argentina & River Plate) SCHOLES, Paul (England & Manchester United) TREZEGUET, David (France & AS Monaco) VAN NISTELROOY, Ruud (Netherlands & PSV Eindhoven) VIEIRA, Patrick (France & Arsenal) YORKE, Dwight (Trinidad and Tobago & Manchester United) Thoughts would be appreciated.
Well, Henry finished 4th in the elections of the 2000 Ballon d'Or, award that, in theory, took into account the 2000 chronological year, not the 1999-00 season, as in these lists. I suppose his high regard was largely due his very good start of the 2000-01 season (which would belong to the 2001 list), in which he had brilliant moments (as his spectacular volley against Manchester United in october). I particularly remember as his breakthrough season the 2000-01, when I really started to notice him as a first world-class player. Although I could have an imprecise memory, he wasn't among the top 5 goalscorers of the FA Premier League neither wasn't elected in the PFA Team of the Year (but Andy Cole and Kevin Phillips). What do you think? My main dilemma now is the inclusion of Riquelme.
okay I see. I didn't notice Riquelme was absent, really he deserves. so which player do you consider exclude it?
I wish I could easily decide, but I feel that regardless of the decision I commit some injustice. I finally decided to add Beckham, Riquelme and Romário instead of Émerson, Phillips and Jardel. 2000 BATISTUTA, Gabriel (Argentina & Fiorentina) BECKHAM, David (England & Manchester United) CRESPO, Hernán (Argentina & Parma) DAVIDS, Edgar (Netherlands & Juventus) FIGO, Luís (Portugal & Barcelona) KAHN, Oliver (Germany & Bayern Munich) KEANE, Roy (Ireland & Manchester United) MENDIETA, Gaizka (Spain & Valencia) NEDVED, Pavel (Czech Republic & Lazio) NESTA, Alessandro (Italy & Lazio) RAÚL (Spain & Real Madrid) REDONDO, Fernando (Argentina & Real Madrid) RIQUELME, Juan Román (Argentina & Boca Juniors) RIVALDO (Brazil & Barcelona) ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil & Real Madrid) ROMÁRIO (Brazil & Vasco da Gama) SHEVCHENKO, Andriy (Ukraine & AC Milan) STAM, Jaap (Netherlands & Manchester United) THURAM, Lilian (France & Parma) TOLDO, Francesco (Italy & Fiorentina) TOTTI, Francesco (Italy & AS Roma) VERÓN, Juan Sebastián (Argentina & Lazio) ZIDANE, Zinedine (France & Juventus) 1) ZIDANE, Zinedine (France & Juventus) 2) FIGO, Luís (Portugal & Barcelona) 3) SHEVCHENKO, Andriy (Ukraine & AC Milan)
Well, in general terms I'd say that I was more impressed by the Shevchenko definition skills, but since this was also a great year for Phillips in terms of productivity I think there wouldn't be a noticeable difference here. What I think it does make the difference is the way Shevchenko played as an all-round forward. He had already shown very complete in that sense in his previous seasons with Dynamo Kyiv, but in his first season in Italy I'd say that his skills outside the area became even more remarkable in a higher competition. He went back several meters and he was frequently involved in the building of offensive plays, led the ball naturally and had more power and speed to appear from different sides, especially on the left flank. Phillips had a great scorer year and had a very good technique on the ball, but I couldn't say that he possessed such dynamics, at least not at that level, and that makes me feel the Ukrainian was a greater attacking driving force for his team this season, apart from his scoring contribution. To be honest, it's hard for me to leave Phillips and Jardel out. I think they both had all the merit, but it's really difficult for me to decide who to replace. Perhaps Romário at a lower competitive level (although it was a sublime year for him in South America, better than 1997, the last year I considered him) or Thuram (not a so remarkable year for him apart of Euro, although seems me strange to consider only one French player).
While I'm making my first attempt for the 2001 list, I was thinking about this pending issue and finally convinced myself that his case for the 1998-99 season is below the standard despite his sparks and the Copa América. I've decided to replace him in the 1999 list by Sol Campbell. In any case, I think that the inclusion or not of Ronaldo will again be controversial for 2002.
Sorry, I had missed this. With regards to the volume of games there's a similar problem as in 1999 but I'm inclined to think for 2002 he's clearly in. Which he also was in the real list, unlike 1999. In 1998-99 he had 36 games for club plus country, in 2001-02 he had 26 games for club plus country. At the 2002 World Cup there is a clear argument he was the best player of the tournament, while at the 1999 Copa America the balance is tilting to others. In 1999 he scored 4 non-penalty goals in 6 games while in 2002 he scored 8 in 7 games. Of course you can start to point out this was the weakest route to the cup ever, and the own goal of Costa Rica was generously given to him, but generally I think he was more outstanding in 2002 (next to his peers) than in the 1999 tournament. Also OPTA and the so called 'Castrol Index' back this up. The average Elo rating of the opponents in 1999 was 1729, with the highest on 1860. This was Argentina who left - as discussed above - all their WPotY, Ballon d'Or and ESM stars home - so this strength rating is actually a mildly inflated one. The average Elo rating of the opponents in 2002 was 1795, with both England and Germany on 1941. Although actually many teams (that Brazil did not face) struggled with injuries and fatigue (in part thanks to the shortest break ever between regular season and the tournament, among other issues), they all came with their best possible teams. It is not an opposition strength as Pelé in 1970 or MvB in 1988 (to take another legendary striker; faced four top six opponents in 5 games; average strength of 1918 or incl. host advantage average opposition strength of 1937). Still, 8 goals and the most by a World Cup topscorer since 1970 is too good to ignore. With regards to the regular season it is good to point out in 2001-02 his media ratings are notably a lot higher as in 1998-99, and he also received in April 2002 the first ESM XI selection since May 1998. This is significant given that he was never really off the radar - with his history, the media etc. you don't 'overlook' him when he (remotely) deserves it. He scored 7 non-penalty goals in 10 Serie A games whereas in 1998-99 he scored 7 in 19. He had not the same lightning pace as before his injury/injuries, and his technical skills were impaired, but I perceived him to be immediately playing in a more clever way. I actually saw him live in the stadium (April 2002). He played more between the lines back then and linked up more. So I think quality wise this was both in the tournament and at club level a notch up from 1999.
Great stuff. Before going into a deep analysis, I certainly agree. Moreover the representativeness of a World Cup for an MVP and the one that seems to be within the criterial line in previous lists of Tom Stevens, especially taking as an example to Paolo Rossi in 1982 (who had even less activity at club level).
This is my first sketch for 2001: AYALA, Roberto (Argentina & Valencia) BAGGIO, Roberto (Italy & Brescia) BECKHAM, David (England & Manchester United) CAFU (Brazil & AS Roma) CRESPO, Hernán (Italy & Lazio) EFFENBERG, Stefan (Germany & Bayern Munich) FIGO, Luís (Portugal & Real Madrid) HENRY, Thierry (France & Arsenal) HYYPIÄ, Sami (Finland & Liverpool) KAHN, Oliver (Germany & Bayern Munich) MENDIETA, Gaizka (Spain & Valencia) NEDVED, Pavel (Czech Republic & Lazio) NESTA, Alessandro (Italy & Lazio) OWEN, Michael (England & Liverpool) RAÚL (Spain & Real Madrid) RIQUELME, Juan Román (Argentina & Boca Juniors) RIVALDO (Brazil & Barcelona) ROBERTO CARLOS (Brazil & Real Madrid) RUI COSTA (Portugal & Fiorentina) SHEVCHENKO, Andriy (Ukraine & AC Milan) TOTTI, Francesco (Italy & AS Roma) VIEIRA, Patrick (France & Arsenal) ZIDANE, Zinedine (France & Juventus) Honorable Mentions: Roberto Acuña, Patrik Andersson, Sergej Barbarez, Fabien Barthez, Gabriel Batistuta, Lee Bowyer, Gianluigi Buffon, Santiago Cañizares, Éric Carriere, Cosmin Contra, Iván Córdoba, Óscar Córdoba, Giovane Élber, Rio Ferdinand, Steven Gerrard, Ryan Giggs, Guti, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, Iván Helguera, Ariel Ibagaza, Mário Jardel, Javi Moreno, Roy Keane, Patrick Kluivert, Henrik Larsson, Bixente Lizarazu, Andreas Möller, Robert Pires, Claudio Pizarro, Paul Robinson, Romário, Walter Samuel, Ebbe Sand, Javier Saviola, Paul Scholes, Mehmet Scholl, Teddy Sheringham, Alan Smith, Jaap Stam, Damiano Tommasi, Mark Viduka and Mario Yepes. It's very difficult for me to choose the podium. My first feeling is that Raúl was perhaps the best player of the season in terms of consistency, but Zidane and Figo had brighter sparkles, while half a step later I'd consider Owen, Rivaldo and Totti. Thoughts will really be appreciated.
I think I'll stick to having stopped trying my own shortlist now Peru, but a few brief thoughts I can add.... Maybe I under-estimate Rivaldo for the 2001 list (and the 2000 one), but probably he's the one from your top candidates that might surprise me the most. In a similar way to how comme asked what Shevchenko had over Phillips the previous season, maybe now it could be my turn with Rivaldo compared to a Sheringham or Larsson (not to say I have enough info to say I definitely don't think he had anything...and he did have some notable/key stand-out moments undoubtedly - I'm just assuming it was really the 1999 and 1998 lists, where I had him right at the top potentially or very close, that he has the best cases for generally). For top place I might have assumed Figo, but could be indeed (or not) that Raul has the case for consistency moreso than him and then it'd be a case of weighing up the brighter sparkles as you put it vs that. I'm feeling perhaps Figo was more of the catalyst in that team that season but other views, particularly from Real Madrid or La Liga fans could be useful and interesting. Another possible HM from the Premier League that might come to mind might be Gary McAllister. Although for Premier League only (Liverpool won a treble that year of course so plenty to consider outside league games) he, and fellow veteran Sheringham actually too despite his individual recognition, didn't actually make the very top end of the ratings shown on DBS Calcio I noticed, and in that respect Dyer and Merson for example stand out instead as possibilities: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/best-football-players-of-all-time.2011432/page-26#post-35273840