Historic World Wide Balon d'Or 23 player short lists

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Tom Stevens, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Cerezo is already included so that was my mistake. @Tom Stevens is a superb researcher and I don't think I can add much to his serious work, which is not found anywhere else including the commercial media. Those were some names that stood out in their way and possibly could be taken a second look.
     
  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yes, that is the best job the rest of us can do for Tom I think and I think he will be appreciating the suggestions whatever percentage of them persuade him to change his lists slightly. Plus it is not only about changing the lists, but sometimes just adding worthy candidates for particular years.
     
  3. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    And yeah, I had expected Cerezo to be an HM at the least, and somehow had overlooked he was in the main list, after double-checking the HM's instead! I don't think I've seen much at all of his play in 1980, but I know he was very highly rated (including in actual match ratings) in Brazil in that year.
     
  4. Perú FC

    Perú FC Member+

    Nov 16, 2007
    Lima, Perú
    I just checked until 1949 list and the details that can be drawn are very interesting. According to the revised lists of Tom Stevens the record of appearances is:

    20's

    7: MORTON, Alan (SCO)
    6: PESEK, Karel (CHE)
    6: SCARONE, Héctor (URU)
    5: BUCHAN, Charlie (ENG)
    5: GALLACHER, Hughie (SCO)
    5: ORTH, György (HUN)
    5: WALKER, Billy (ENG)
    4: ANDRADE, José Leandro (URU)
    4: KONRÁD, Kálmán (HUN)
    4: McGRORY, Jimmy (SCO)
    4: SAMITIER, Josep (SPA)
    4: SEOANE, Manuel (ARG)
    4: ZAMORA, Ricardo (SPA)

    30's

    7: MEAZZA, Giuseppe (ITA)
    6: BASTIN, Cliff (ENG)
    6: SINDELAR, Matthias (AUT)
    5: FERRARI, Giovanni (ITA)
    5: NEJEDLY, Oldrich (CZE)
    5: ORSI, Raimundo (ARG)
    5: SÁROSI, György (HUN)
    5: SASTRE, Antonio (ARG)
    4: ANDREOLO, Michele (URU)
    4: HAPGOOD, Eddie (ENG)
    4: MORENO, José Manuel (ARG)
    4: PIOLA, Silvio (ITA)
    4: PLÁNICKA, Frantisek (CZE)

    40's

    6: BICAN, Josef (AUT)
    6: MAZZOLA, Valentino (ITA)
    6: PEDERNERA, Adolfo (ARG)
    5: GARCÍA, Atilio (URU)
    5: MORENO, José Manuel (ARG)
    5: ZIZINHO (BRA)
    4: BOYÉ, Mario (ARG)
    4: DEÁK, Ferenc (HUN)
    4: LABRUNA, Ángel (ARG)
    4: LAWTON, Tommy (ENG)
    4: LEÓNIDAS (BRA)
    4: MATTHEWS, Stanley (ENG)
    4: MÉNDEZ, Norberto (ARG)
    4: PONTONI, René (ARG)
    4: SASTRE, Antonio (ARG)
    4: VARELA, Obdulio (URU)

    Overall

    9: BICAN, Josef (AUT)
    9: MORENO, José Manuel (ARG)
    9: SASTRE, Antonio (ARG)
    7: MEAZZA, Giuseppe (ITA)
    7: MORTON, Alan (SCO)
    7: ORSI, Raimundo (ARG)
    7: PEDERNERA, Adolfo (ARG)
    7: SÁROSI, György (HUN)
    6: BASTIN, Cliff (ENG)
    6: DOMINGOS da Guia (BRA)
    6: GALLACHER, Hughie (SCO)
    6: LAWTON, Tommy (ENG)
    6: LEÓNIDAS (BRA)
    6: MAZZOLA, Valentino (ITA)
    6: McGRORY, Jimmy (SCO)
    6: NASAZZI, José (URU)
    6: PESEK, Karel (CZE)
    6: SCARONE, Héctor (URU)
    6: SINDELAR, Matthias (AUT)
    6: ZSENGELLÉR, Gyula (HUN)

    To be honest, due their reputation I'm surprised that Dixie Dean and Arsenio Erico haven't been appointed at least 5 times. On the other hand, it's clear for me that José Manuel Moreno was the best player before the 50's.
     
  5. Di Pecruydona

    Di Pecruydona Member

    Nov 12, 2013
    Hamburg
    Club:
    MSV Duisburg
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I also wonder how Andrade could not get 6 appointments.
    I think Dean was more like a one season wonder, displaying an absolute world-class performance in 1928, but the other years he was maybe just international class as i got it.
     
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  6. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    1981

    Arconada, Luis (Real Sociedad, Spain)
    Blokhin, Oleg (Dynamo Kyiv, Soviet Union)
    Brady, Liam (Juventus, Ireland)
    Paul Breitner (Germany, Bayern Munich)
    Chivadze, Aleksandre (Dinamo Tbilisi, Soviet Union)
    Falcao (Roma)
    de León, Hugo (Gremio)
    Isidoro, Paulo (Gremio, Brazil)
    Juanito (Real Madrid, Spain)
    Júnior (Flamengo, Brazil)
    Kipiani, David (Dinamo Tbilisi, Soviet Union)
    Krol, Ruud (Napoli, Netherlands)
    Maradona, Diego (Boca Junior, Argentina)
    Pereyra, Dario (Sao Paulo)
    Platini, Michel (Saint-Étienne, France)
    Rummenigge, Karl-Heinz (Bayern Munich, Germany)
    Scirea, Gaetano (Juventus, Italy)
    Souness, Graeme (Liverpool, Scotland)
    Stielike, Uli (Real Madrid, Germany)
    Thijssen, Frans (Ipswich Town, Netherlands)
    Uribe, Julio César (Sporting Cristal, Peru)
    Wark, John (Ipswich Town, Scotland)
    Zico (Flamengo, Brazil)

    Honorable Mention: Andrade, Leandro, Tita, Marinho Chagas, Serginho Chulapa, Zé Sérgio, Renato, Baltazar, Emerson Leão, Roberto Dinamite, Mário Sérgio, Luizinho, Socrates, Toninho Cerezo, Eder, Reinaldo, Miguel Ángel Brindisi, Norberto Alonso, Ubaldo Fillol, Roberto Mouzo, Patricio Yanez, Walter Schachner, Herbert Prohaska, Bruno Pezzey, Jan Ceulemans, Franky Vercauteren, Sandy Archibald, Terry McDermott, Phil Neal, Alan Hansen, Ray Clemence, Paul Mariner, John Robertson, Arnold Mühren, Bernard Genghini, Didier Six, Christian Lopez, Gérard Janvion, László Kiss, László Kiss, Tibor Nyilasi, András Törőcsik, Claudio Gentile, Antonio Cabrini, Marco Tardelli, Bruno Conti, Roberto Pruzzo, Giancarlo Antognoni, Zbigniew Boniek, Włodzimierz Smolarek, Ramaz Shengelia, Quini, Satrústegui, Roberto López Ufarte, José Antonio Camacho, Pierre Littbarski, Karlheinz Förster, Manfred Kaltz, Harald Schumacher, Vladimir Petrović, Zlatko Vujović

    Top three are the same, and again pretty clear to me, with Platini possibly pushing them. It was tough to decide who to include from Brazil because many of the best domestic performers (Isidoro, Baltazar, Roberto Dinamite) were not a major part of the national team that was really hitting great from, while some of the national team stalwarts were having average club years (Socrates, Toninho Cerezo, Reinaldo).
     
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  7. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    1982

    Ardiles, Osvaldo (Tottenham, Argentina)
    Boniek, Zbigniew (Widzew Łódź, Poland)
    Cabrini, Antonio (Juventus, Italy)
    Conti, Bruno (Roma, Italy)
    Dasaev, Rinat (Spartak Moscow, Soviet Union)
    Falcão (Roma, Brazil)
    Forster, Karlheinz (Stuttgart, Germany)
    Giresse, Alain (Bordeaux, France)
    Júnior (Flamengo, Brazil)
    Lato, Grzegorz (Lokeren, Poland)
    Leandro (Flamengo, Brazil)
    Littbarski, Pierre (Köln, Germany)
    Passarella, Daniel (River Plate, Argentina)
    Platini, Michel (Saint-Étienne, France)
    Rossi, Paolo (Juventus, Italy)
    Rummenigge, Karl-Heinz (Bayern Munich, Germany)
    Scirea, Gaetano (Juventus, Italy)
    Sócrates (Corinthians, Brazil)
    Stielike, Uli (Real Madrid, Germany)
    Stielike, Uli (Real Madrid, Germany)
    Tigana, Jean (Bordeaux, France)
    Zico (Flamengo, Brazil)
    Zoff, Dino (Juventus, Italy)


    Honorable Mention: Claudio Gentile, Giancarlo Antognoni, Fulvio Collovati, Paul Breitner, Hans-Peter Briegel, Władysław Żmuda, Włodzimierz Smolarek, Marius Tresor, Maxime Bossis, Dominique Rocheteau, Bernard Genghini, Toninho Cerezo, Éder, Aleksandr Chivadze, Bruno Pezzey, Gerry Armstrong, Eric Gerets, Kevin Keegan, Horst Hrubesch, Franco Causio, Ruud Krol, Quini, Luis Arconada, Harald Schumacher, Tony Morley, Careca, Fernando Morena, Nelson Gutiérrez, Kenny Dalglish, Torbjorn Nilsson, Robert Lopez Ufarte, Glenn Hoddle, Liam Brady, Graeme Souness, Felix Magath, Rafael Gordillo, Manuel Amoros, Alan Hansen

    I did something I really do not like to do here and let the World Cup completely take over the rankings. Maybe it had something to do with the format but the good World Cup performances seemed spread among many players. I fact there were some excellent World Cup performances that seemed worthy that I could not fit in (Gentile, Collovati, Żmuda, Tresor, Cerezo, Eder, Chivadze). I cold not get a single non World Cup player in, the best performances that were crowded out were Keegan, Hrubesch, Morley, Careca, and Morena.

    Top three was difficult with Zico being the only clear choice that excelled at all levels. Falcao may have been equal or slightly better in the World Cup but Zico's domestic performance was immaculate. Giresse seemed like a very good candidate from the World Cup. I also wanted an Italian, but not Rossi due to the fact he did not play a club season. Settled on Scirea over Tardelli and Conti.
     
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  8. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    @Tom Stevens - hold off a bit, I don't have the time right now to delve into 81 and 82, will follow up later tonight.
     
  9. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Nice to see Uribe making the 23.
    I think that Cueto would be a good call too. Great at NT, also the best player in a colombian league that was reaching one of its higher eras.
    Also Velasquez and Barbadillo were great in the WCQ.
     
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  10. Raute

    Raute Member

    Jun 9, 2015
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    I don't fully agree, anyway it is full list of 82 Golden Ball.

    1. Rossi
    2. Falcao
    3. Rummenigge
    4. Boniek
    5. Zico
    6. Socrates
    7. Giresse
    8. Dasayev / Maradona
    10. Platini
    11. Conti / Zoff
    13. Junior
    14. Tigana
    15. Stielike
    16. Littbarski
    17. Lato / Passarella
    19. Ardiles
    20. Antognoni / Eder
     
  11. elegos7

    elegos7 Member

    Jun 28, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    You have Stielike twice in your 1982 list.
     
  12. AD78

    AD78 Member+

    Jul 17, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    #562 AD78, Apr 26, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2016
    Of the three Tblisi players I personally favour Shengalia, he won the Soviet player of the year and was the star at Upton Park in the CWC quarter finals, I saw a really good program on that a while back and how revered that team from behind the iron curtain came to Upton Park and demolished West Ham 4-1. All three Tblisi players have a good case after winning the CWC however with Chivadze probably next in my opinion. This is another tough year to pick a top ten, atfter the first three or four there are a lot of players with not too much to choose between them, absolutely no arguments with the top 3.
     
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  13. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    I do think this is a very tough one. I thought Keegan was probably the best player in Europe in 1981-2 (one of the weakest seasons in years) and did Rossi really do more than him?

    I can see the logic for the inclusion of a Rossi for instance but do think it raises the old question about the relative merits of the club game versus a handful (3 in Rossi's case) of big international matches.
     
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  14. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I feel like Rossi must be ruled out of main contention (not ruled out of the 23) as this is a year where using seasons must make a big difference, as he'd not have the start to 82/83 to back up his 1982 WC (like he had when it came to the Ballon d'Or). Even though the WC can still be considered in it's entirety, as well as the whole of 1982 when it comes to International football.

    On the other hand, it might put the likes of Platini and Littbarski in a better position even than for the Ballon d'Or?
     
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  15. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I think Keegan, like Hoddle (especially when considering all competitions I'd think for him), would just be a stand-out World Cup short of putting himself in real contention.

    Maybe one of those would be my suggestion for being added to the 23 if Steilike is duplicated and another player wasn't intended to be there. But there is also Johan Cruyff - I'm not sure exactly where I'd place him but I think he should be at the very least probably an HM myself.
     
  16. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Great list again. How about Julio Cesar Romero, who's becoming the star of the NSAL over some of the big name veterans. Also Gonzalez, who has his best season in El Salvador before moving to La Liga, and Velasquez, who is crucial for Peru to qualify to the WC.
     
  17. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Landmark year in football. I have to strongly disagree with the exclusion of Maradona, indeed he had a disappointing WC though still rated as one of the top ten players, but at club level he keeps an aging Boca Juniors near the top of the league. I would also add Oscar, Jair, Tita, Bergomi, Pfaff, Velasquez, Aravena. Also, you have neglected players from outside Europe and South America, as Maradiaga and Arzu have superb performances at the WC, as do N'Kono, Belloumi and Madjer.
     
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  18. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I had a look to see if I could find a PFA Player of the Year shortlist for 1981/82 (not even sure they were announced in those days as maybe what I am posting below suggests) or even the results of the voting, and didn't find anything but have found this for 1978/79 which somewhat confirms that, along with Brady, Anderson and Ardiles being picked out for that season is a good call (interestingly in a book I have, Brian Clough says that the overall level of Anderson and Woodcock too was not as good as in 77/78, but says given their age and great start to life in the 1st Division that that was to be expected):
    [​IMG]
    Only Brown didn't end in the PFA Team of the Year in the end, but like with Ozil this season it's possible not to do and still make a shortlist (or be in the top 6 in the overall voting).

    Kenny Dalglish sealing the FWA award with great form at the end of the season, despite not being mentioned there by Shoot magazine, also makes sense I think probably.
     
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  19. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Dean and Erico both had a smaller number of great years as oppose to sustained success. Erico had three consecutive years that were better than probably every season some players on that list achieved.

    Andrade was close, I think he made 5, but similar issue with lack of longevity, Injury was an issue in 1928.
     
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  20. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Tardelli should be there instead.
     
  21. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    1983

    Bochini, Ricardo (Independiente)
    Burruchaga, Jorge (Independiente, Argentina)
    Careca (Sao Paulo, Brazil)
    Dalglish, Kenny (Liverpool, Scotland)
    de León, Hugo (Gremio)
    Éder (Atletico Mineiro, Brazil)
    Falcao (Roma)
    Francescoli, Enzo (Wanderers, Uruguay)
    Gaúcho, Renato (Gremio, Brazil)
    Hansen, Alan (Liverpool, Scotland)
    Hysén, Glenn (IFK Göteborg, Sweden)
    Júnior (Flamengo, Brazil)
    Magath, Felix (Hamburg, Germany)
    Olsen, Morten (Anderlecht, Denmark)
    Platini, Michel (Juventus, France)
    Robson, Bryan (Manchester United, England)
    Rummenigge, Karl-Heinz (Bayern Munich, Germany)
    Simonsen, Allan (Charlton, Denmark)
    Sócrates (Corinthians, Brazil)
    Strachan, Gordon (Aberdeen, Scotland)
    Vierchwood, Pietro (Roma, Italy)
    Völler, Rudi (Werder Bremen, Germany)
    Zico (Flamengo, Brazil)

    Honorable Mention: Assis, Leandro, Mozer, Dario Pereyra, Serginho Chulapa, Pita, Paulo Isidoro, Tita, Mário Sérgio, Nelinho, Reinaldo, Rodolfo Rodriguez, Carlos Auilera, Víctor Diogo, Frankie Vercauteren, Erwin Vandenbergh, Eric Gerets, Preben Elkjær Larsen, Michael Laudrup, Graeme Souness, Ian Rush, Vahid Halilhodžić, Maxime Bossis, Alain Giresse, Jeanu Tigana, Luis Fernandez, Bruno Conti, Antonio Cabrini, Zbigniew Boniek, Marco Tardelli, Agostino Di Bartolomei, Jesper Olsen, Fernando Gomes, Carlos Manuel, Chalana, Safet Susic, Fyodor Cherenkov, Rinat Dasayev, Karlheinz Förster, Hans-Peter Briegel, Harald Schumacher, Manfred Kaltz, Lars Bastrup, Rafael Gordillo, Antonio Maceda, Santillana, Bernd Schuster, Jean-Marie Pfaff, Liam Brady, Trevor Francis, Jan Peters, Herbert Prohaska, Juan Barbas

    This was a truly difficult year for me to sort out and any help would be appreciated. One thing I felt good about was Platini and Falcao as the top two players. The third spot was totally up for grabs. Socrates was SAPOTY and had a legendary campaign in the Paulista. He also had good goalscoring numbers in the Brazilian Championships but Corinthians failed to make the final round and he was not part of the team of the tournament. The national team had a disappointing season failing to win the Copa America, and despite reaching the final, never hit near the levels that captured everyone's imagination in 82. Daglish was excellent in England but had no major achievements with Scotland or in European competition. Magath was the star of the European Cup but had basically been completely dropped by Germany, I am not sure why. Bochini, Junior, and Gaucho all crossed my mind as well as possible candidates.

    Also had a very hard time figuring who should be in the 23 vs honorable mention. Simonsen is a very strange case who rated very high in the Balon d'Or voting based solely on his international achievements. I had trouble deciphering who were the stars for Uruguay's Copa America victory outside of Francescoli, if there was a standout I could definitely be persuaded to include them.

    Overall very open to suggestions this year.
     
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  22. Raute

    Raute Member

    Jun 9, 2015
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    I prefer Zico as third. Not only Dalglish, but Magath seems not big candidate. Magath had a great season, but most brightest star of 1982/83 Bundesliga was Voller. He was Bundesliga top scorer, also carried Werder Bremen to runner-up(Hamburg was champion due to goal difference). I can't understand why Voller rated low in Ballon d'or.

    Simonsen's highly reputation was due to Denmark NT. Denmark qualified Euro 1984, especially beat England in Wembley was legendary(Simonsen took a PK). On the other hand, Simonsen backed to Vejle which his hometown club in 1983, it means he was no more professional footballer. In that time, Danish football league was amateur competition. Though he still show his quality, so many voters were impressed with his vigorous.
     
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  23. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Hadn't he fallen out with Jupp Derwall?

    @Gregoriak would know better.
     
  24. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Bolzplatz

    Yes indeed.

    Taken from Kicker's July 1983 "world class" assessment of Magath:

    Wolfgang-Felix Magath [Offensive Midfielder]
    ..... In Felix Magath, Breitner has a worthy successor. To be sure, the playmaker of HSV does not appear as dynamic as Breitner but he is more inventive and technically superior. Wonderful are his crosses that he bends so well and his freekicks and his well-timed passes. Magath's fantastic ball control also was seen when he scored his "goal of the year" in Athens against Juventus. Too bad that the 29- year old has resigned from playing in the national team. Magath could be very useful for Derwall's team.

    http://www.historical-lineups.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Kicker-Commentary-1980-to-1989.pdf
     
  25. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Bolzplatz
    Regarding the complete "Ballon d'Or" results I will soon have a look at "Sportmagazin" of the 1950s and 1960s. "Sportmagazin" was a competitor of "Kicker" in those years and was a superb alternative (both magazines merged in October 1968). Perhaps I can find something.
     
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