I'm about ten games deep into my H.S. career and am learning a ton of things at an accelerated pace. I.Love.It. But I've got a couple of questions for you guys. Since I'm around 200 games into my youth soccer career, I'm working hard on separating the nuances in differences in the games, rules etc... 1) Dissent: I usually think dissent is dissent is dissent and it's all balanced on the tenor of the match, who's talking, what they're saying and, MOSTLY, HOW they're saying it. EXAMPLE: Girls Freshman game - Player fouled in the PA while defensive player trips her while toe-poking the ball away. It's a foul, there's no question, it's followed, as per usual, with "But she got ball first" and the like from coach and parents. But then, a different defender, upon realizing it's a PK says, not necessarily AT me, but loud enough for me to hear in the wind says "That's a terrible call, man, that was all ball." She says it in that way that you say things to yourself out loud, but she says it, nonetheless. I think for a moment, and trying to be calm in an emotionally charged (for everyone else on the field) moment and simply say "Be quiet, that's enough." to her. She shuts up and we move on. I'm wondering; should I be treating dissent differently than I do youth matches? Should I be more lenient or less? I've always wondered about this ever since I heard something about WC referees having to adjust to the normally filthy mouths of English players. I know I need to adjust, but don't want to overcompensate. In the same vein I've heard some reactive "Oh, SH**" from players, said to themselves after making a mistake, they get a "hey, watch the language, please" at my next stoppage and we move on. 2) Crowd issues: Example: Yesterday, team A scores the equalizer after my given PK was scored (mentioned above) and a Dad yells something fun like "way to get it back, Tina, after that terrible call!" As I'm jogging back to my spot for the kickoff, I peek over my should to get an idea of who it was just in case there's any future issues. I usually do this at youth matches, since it's up to me to decide when enough is enough with those folks. I don't stare anyone down, just take a peak on the sly after a stoppage and I'm headed back that way. It takes about 1/2 a second. As I turn back around (ball isn't even on the center mark yet for kickoff), someone ELSE yells "TURN AROUND!" at me. I know who it is, because he's all by himself at the end, nobody anywhere near him. In a youth match, because of his nasty, somewhat threatening, tone, I'd likely consider sending him away from the field (we're given wide authority on it, coaches really only need to be involved if there's anything "dangerous/threatening" or they're refusing to leave or if the entire sideline is out of control. One or a few spectators can be handled by us, heck, even the whole sideline if you're up for it.). But, since it's H.S. and I don't fell "threatened" by it, I smile to myself and let it slide. Plus, it's an Athletic Director's issue anyway to deal with that and it's a Freshman game that's been pretty low key so far. Did I handle that right? What's the line a spectator has to cross in H.S. for you to involve coaches or ADs? It's a different animal than club/youth which is supposed to be all about development, so I understand there's a lot more I'm going to hear, especially with larger crowds and it being more difficult to pinpoint any one person, the shape of stadia and bleachers make it possible to hear EVERYTHING.. What's your advice on dissent and spectators? Some guys I work with let pretty much everything go "Gotta have a thicker skin", but what is the reasonable line?
Very good questions. Dissent. The nice people who write the checks to us (that means principals and athletic directors, not coaches) don't want a lot of dissent. As someone else noted in another thread, in college we work for the coaches, particularly the home coach. In high school, we're working for the athletic directors and principals. So I tolerate less dissent in high school games than I do just about anywhere else. One or two short sentences are just emotion. You may need to end it with the death stare that tells even high school kids to knock it off or else. If players or coaches want to continue beyond that, then it's time for plastic. If it's loud enough for others to hear, I tend to not respond with a calm but direct "I've heard enough," which I'm more likely to do in other venues under other rule books. I just skip to the yellow card and let them take the perp walk to the bench. That's not to say that directed offinabus doesn't get the cherry flavored one instantly. Note that NFHS rules specifically also call out "incidental [i.e. not directed] vulgar or profane language" as deserving a caution. Under no circumstances am I going to deal directly with spectators in a high school match. If it's dissent, tough. That's what we get the big bucks for. If they want to boo, knock yourself out kids. If what they're saying begins to affect the attitude of players or coaches (or their reactions start after the coach or players have reacted), then deal with the athletic director or home coach. Our state has a rule that the home school must provide a game manager for all varsity contests in all sports. They are the ones who are supposed to deal with out of control behavior by spectators. If there is no "game manager" identified before the game, you go to the home team's coach. Don't restart the game until they have dealt with (or, at the very least, have committed to deal with) the behavior. Our state also has a rule that any spectator comments of a protected class nature (racial, ethnic, religious, gender, gender preference) that are heard by the officials is grounds to immediately stop the game, which is not restarted until the home school has dealt with it. Spectators talking loudly to opposing players by name is another reason, in my opinion, to stop the game and have the coach(s) deal with it. When that kind of thing is going on, nothing good will come of it. We had a game about five years ago which was a cross town rivalry, with some ethnic flavor to it. (One team all Hispanic, the other partially Hispanic.) Hispanic high school student spectators calling out players from the opposing team, by name, as traitors for playing for the team/school that wasn't all Hispanic. Referee went to the AD at halftime and asked him to deal with it. AD refused, on the grounds that he was afraid the two coaches were going to get into a fight and he was trying to prevent that. At the final whistle, there was a mass field invasion. The referees got out of Dodge, as they are supposed to do. A coach followed them to the parking lot, wanting them to 'go back there and deal with the confrontation.' They didn't laugh at his transparent attempt to avoid being assaulted himself by leaving the field with them, but it was not a pretty picture.
I'm in my second year doing high school and I know that some of the "rules" vary by state-to-state, but they all should be fairly uniform. This is what I have to add: 1) The way our assignor and our contacts for our local HS association put dissent is this: if it is public, then it needs to be dealt with. They take a much harder "black and white" look at it in high school. Ultimately for me, if a player says something and only me and a few close people around can hear it, I just do what you do and say cool it that's enough, etc. But if the benches and/or fans can hear it, it's a must book offense. This goes ESPECIALLY for coaches. If they yell across the field, they are getting booked 100% of the time. 2) I 100% ignore all fans. I deal with fans the way you'd imagine doing a top domestic pro league. The fans are absolutely not your responsibility unless it gets to a point where they are directly interfering with your match ie: invading the pitch, throwing things on the pitch, etc. The sad part about it with high school is that it's the expectation that the AD or the site supervisor is to deal with unruly fans. But in my experience, they have an extremely high tolerance before addressing it. I always go the route of telling my assignor "hey I did ____ high school tonight and I heard at least 10 swear words thrown at me and I did not see the AD address this at all" and then hope it gets dealt with. Hope this helps.
1. Kids cuss. HS, club, rec. It doesnt matter, they cuss. I think my tolerance is about the same. A loud "crap" or "sh*t" and I am telling them to watch it. A quiet f-bomb is the same. You get a warning. A loud f-bomb and it depends, but leaning on a yellow. A "puta" or "********" and you get a card. In Texas, everyone knows what that means and people will fight over that. Direct that word at someone (anyone) or an f-bomb at someone and and now I'm at red. In adult league I let more random stuff go, but direct it at someone and you get run. And our adult league is cracking down on language more and more because of families and kids as spectators. As for dissent, I think I am about the same. When I hit my limit (and I have already told you to zip it by them) I just go to my front pocket. 2. IMHO spectators in HS matches are way worse than those in club/rec games. Worse by an order of magnitude, because there are way more of them and they think being in stands give them the freedom to be loud and obnoxious. Yes you have to have a thick skin, but you also have an administrator on duty. Have them go in the stands and deal with it. Cussing you out from the stands should get them tossed. Some coaches have a zero tolerance on their parents. Get tossed and they bar them the rest of the season.
High school and college game gets special treatment because the sponsors are an educational entity. Rules of the classroom follows to the field. The preceding statements have pretty well covered the issues and appropriate responses. I will only add that coaches are and should be held to a much higher standard than players and spectators. Because of the environment in which they are working, be they teachers or otherwise, their input into the game has a much higher impact. For me, a coach does not have to be abusive, belligerent or use foul language to go into the book. A snide, public remark at an inappropriate time will memorialize him in my book...post-game report be dammed. Not afraid of a little extra work. Case in point from earlier in the week. Blue is down by 2 goals and we are going in the last 20 of the match. Blue 5 is getting frustrated and has committed two rash fouls, both called, no caution but with a brief conversation about her escalating behavior. A couple of minutes after the last foul, Blue is wrecked by a White defender (payback is a b*tch!). As Blue is going down to the turf, she grabs the White player by the arm and proceeds to drive her into the turf. Whistle is blown for the foul and now I have to caution Blue for the USB or PI-take your pick. This forces a caution to White in order to manage the match. Both go off. The temperature of the match keeps escalating with tough but legal challenges for both sides. These are the only cautions of the game. Five minutes later, White defender grabs a fistful of Blue jersey as she defends outside of the PA. She's booked for USB and sent off. As she's walking to the bench, I, as well everyone in the stadium, hear the White coach bellow out "YOU SURE ARE FREEWHEELING WITH THE CARDS TONIGHT". Since clock is stopped, I slowly amble over to the bench (at least 40 yards) and once I get there I inform the coach that the only expectation I have of him is to be respectful of the game and to act in a responsible manner. If he can't do that he can leave. He gets the caution and I walk away. The outburst was not abusive, did not use offensive language but it questioned the authority of the crew at a time where the match temperature was escalating. His outburst can only contribute to a breakdown of the players emotional control. Not going to let it happen, particularly from a coach.
I've done 100 or so sub-varsity matches in the last few years, all but one of them solo. I treat dissent the same as USSF games with players the same age. The only difference is that high school rules have specific instructions dealing with profanity. Incidental foul language is a caution. Directed foul language is a send of...uh..."disqualification". If it's quiet it gets a verbal reminder to watch the language. If it's loud enough for others to hear (especially anyone off the field of play), I card accordingly. I have over the years lost my tolerance for poor spectator behavior. The guy who made the bad call comment is going to be ignored unless it happens again, at which point the site admin or head coach is going to be told to get rid of him. The guy who yelled at you to turn around is gone immediately.
We've been instructed in NC to treat "incidential foul language" as a red card as allowed by the NFHS rulebook. Of course this just leads to incidental language being ignored or dealt with by a quiet word because a red card seems so over the top because a "WTF" slipped out after getting kicked hard in the ankle.
Ugh. Only red I gave was last year to a HS freshman who yelled "F You!" directly at an opponent - and at least one parent still thought the red was too harsh. War story - a few years ago I took a high school certification clinic before the season and the instructor was a former NASL pro. He gave us the standard line on language per NFHS. End of the season I am assigned to AR for him in a playoff game. A player screams an F-bomb in frustration early in the game, loud enough for everyone in the stadium to hear clearly. Forgetting who he is, like an idiot I tap my shirt pocket. He jogs over to him and says "language" as he does the two handed "ease it down" motion, no card coming.
For some reason I'm flashing back to two or three years ago, when in the waning moments of a varsity girls game a player from the visiting Christian school was shown a yellow and directed to the bench by my dual partner for dropping an F-bomb on an opponent. This was greeted gleefully by the home fans, to whom she proceeded boldly to display both middle fingers just as she passed by yours truly. That turned out to be the first of three reds I gave in three consecutive girls matches that year. Unusual, for me at least.
This is a good point, because every state treats it different. Checking with your state is the best option. I had heard that NC dealt with incidental foul language strongly but I didn't know it always = red card. I know some other states say incidental foul language is always yellow and red if it's directed at someone, so checking with the state / rules interpreter seems best.
Incidental F-bombs were instructed to be red cards for us also which leads to a lot of ignoring the quietly said ones because you can’t admit to hearing it with just a caution.
High school is often it’s own worst enemy. Anyone that had the pleasure of going to the National NFHS conference in Louisville last year might recall the video shown of a football player accosting an official after the game was over. The official did nothing and was praised for it. Incidentally I think a panel on cracking down on bad behavior might have been just before this was shown.
I recall an AR back in my playing days that must have had very sharp hearing. He signaled the CR at least half a dozen times to issue a card for language. I muttered something to myself after not being able to get to the ball for a cross, and sure enough, I got caught.
I know I've told this one before... Coach to AR (me): "Did you hear what that player said? Why are you allowing that?!" AR: "..." Coach: "I know you heard that. You gotta call that!" AR: "..." Assistant Coach: "Didn't you hear that? You can't allow that kind of stuff!" Coach: "Don't bother talking to him. He's deaf." AR: "I heard that." Coach: "How are you not hearing that stuff?" AR: "28 years of successful marriage, coach." ... Coach: "Huh. Maybe that does explain it. I'm on number 4."
Last fall I had a girls varsity match between a Catholic school and a public school. A Catholic school player overhit a cross and said “Jesus Christ.” A public school player helpfully pointed it out to me, to which I replied that it sounded like she was seeking heavenly intervention to play a better ball next time.
That was NC previously. The state HS associated decided to make it more strict. As it was explained to me, a caution for language is no longer something we can give in a HS match. Anything loud enough to be deemed "public" is suppose to be red.
Men's league game, some time ago, many of the players on one team were high school coaches. O-40, I think. A player expressed his disagreement with my foul call. There was an f word used in his opinion of the decision. I get that look in my eye, as I'm deciding to go with the red. The then coach from my old high school, a Brit with a dry sense of humor, with a panicy tone in his voice, says, "It's okay, ref. It was a noun, not a verb." Everybody on both teams cracks up laughing, so I pulled the yellow for dissent and we restarted with the direct free kick that the foul required.
Last HS season, I was on a night game at a HS girls varsity between two HS’s within the same district. That meant some players had known some of their opponents since kindergarten. Benches that night were on opposite sides of the field, and I was on the away side. There is a stoppage and the away coach calls me over to explain that the home fans are yelling at the players by name. The AD put a stop to it quickly.
So to the OP~ In my experience part of what separates HS games from others with the same players/coaches/parents is that the sides' school identities make the whole thing more tribal. You pick your club but your school is your turf, man. I tend to be more alert for and less permissive of dissent in HS since in those games dissent is more likely to be a collective thing. In many club games, it's about managing the temperature of *that* player, but in HS I find the tribal thing means that one kid piping up means everybody else's temperature goes up too. There's also the calming effect(!) of fans who, on average, display less knowledge and more passion. Perceived stakes are higher, fuse shorter, and the powder keg contains cluster munitions. The science on dissent isn't really different, but the art varies a little.
I know my posts can be long, but I feel like giving the information you need is better than giving not enough. OK, new experience, new question: I've done plenty of duals at various levels/competitions with no problem, until last night. HS Girls Varsity. My partner is old, like 70, and he's a nice enough guy, but he tells me he's an instructor and how he knows everyone and been refereeing for a billion years and used to be the assignor for my assignor etc... knows all the coaches out there, is being buddy-buddy with them, is really REALLY taking the lead. As the new guy, I'm taking it all in and watching and learning...with a grain of salt. Then, he very confidently asks me if I watch EPL (I don't have the inclination to watch any more soccer then I have to at this point) I tell him "No". He says "well, that's how I like to call my matches, let them play, you understand?" It's given as an instruction, not as a colleague to colleague conversation on how we're proceeding. I know there's a motivation to somewhat match your partners' "style", and I have a very uneasy feeling about it. Being the new guy and seeing as he's "Mr. Experienced", overly confident and actually will be assessing me next week, I acquiesce. It's almost immediately a $4it show. Six minutes in, I can see an obvious foul in the area on his side, five yards in front of him and he has NOBODY else around him impeding his view, it's so close, he might as well been involved in the play. I'm 40 yards away with a clear view. He doesn't call the foul, shakes his head "no", and then there's a retaliatory-type foul, both players go down, no call. I'm on the spectator side, so I'm hearing it right away. It goes on like this for a bit and I start seeing it get out of hand pretty quickly. I'm trying to call fouls the way I see them, but letting them go more the way he sees them, as I'm a bit unsure of how to proceed with this other guy. I send one parent (from the visiting catholic school) away, his daughter leaves the field as well to follow him to the car. At 1/2 my partner states he didn't call the original foul, so couldn't see why could should call the second one. I say nothing, but decide I'm going to tighten it up because if he's admitting there was a foul and didn't call it and goes with "even Stevens" rules, I'm going to have to reign in all in and take the heat. 2nd half is worse, but I'm doing my best to manage it. I send another parent away, he grabs his junk and mouths that I should "suck this". Players and parents see it and I hear the "OMG" etc... My partner has the official clock, and lets the home team have massive amounts of extra time to tie the match up, naturally, I take abuse for it. Match ends, I've given three cautions, had several verbal warning conversations, he's done nothing. And I mean NOTHING on his side of the field. Wait, he DID signal the wrong direction on a foul I whistled for, going the opposite of my signal, so that was nice for me. Before you ask: I was told pre-match that I should send unruly spectators away, if they refused to leave, keep the clock stopped, get AD involved (I don't like this and don't think it's what my assignor wants, but I did it yesterday). Otherwise, I get coaches and AD involved. People are right on top of me at this field, and I definitely felt unsafe a couple of times with parents nearly getting into fights (All verbal, nobody actually moving from their seats) So, I learned a lot, but I'd like to ask; How much are you really needing to match your partner? I feel like in the future if this type of thing starts again I'm going to just take control over what I see and if other guy disagrees, that's cool, I'm not here to be in agreement with him, I'm here to facilitate a sporting and fair match played within the laws of the game/IHSA. What kind of conversations do you have w/your partner pre-,match about how you're calling it? I ask because I've never had this issue, everyone else has been pretty much spot-on with me. LOTS of simultaneous whistles. I think I'm a pretty good referee. I've been asked to do some semi-pro lines in the area to get me acclimated with that and been told they're hoping I move up the ladder a bit. I LOVE to learn as much as I can from more experienced guys, regardless of age. I know I've got to get past the "new guy" syndrome where I listen and learn and sort of "know my place" and need to have the confidence to do that. But I'm seeing some of the older guys letting players get far more physical than I think is sporting because they think "It's a physical game, let them play." It's not sitting right with me, so I'm wondering if it's them, or if it's me that may not be cut out for higher levels of the sport. Any advice is absolutely appreciated.
I just wanted to say Wow. That one is a first for me. Thank you for sharing your story. (I have some general thoughts, but I don't live in dual territory, and that's a whole different world, so will leave for others.)