On the MLS:Clubs - Earthquakes forum we have a thread going about the Heritage Cup. BigSoccer San Jose, Seattle and Portland fans have contributed their (sometimes contentious) opinions (pro and con) and learned about the Heritage Cup for the first time (or had its purpose clarified for them). Vancouver fans' opinions are welcome in the thread. Earthquake fans would be very happy to have Vancouver join in the cup competition. BTW, I know you will enjoy Joe Cannon, he's a great guy.
I think the Southsiders have officialy weighed in and answered already. No Thanks. We (The Cascadian teams) don't need another Cup to play for just so SJ has something that they might actually have a shot at winning. No offense, but the VWFC fans that have been polled on the topic have already answered and that's that. We already have the V's Cup (Canadian Play in to the CCL), the Cascadian Cup (Seattle, Portland, and ourselves) and the MLS regular season.
The idea behind the heritage cup is to celebrate the legacy of the NASL, not winning more silverware. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af-Id_fuXFA"]YouTube - Talladega Nights With All Due Respect[/ame]
Great post, awesome flick! Love Will Ferrell. honestly, the NASL Heritage is what it is, ffs...the Caps kits say "Since 1974" on them... however a "cup" that nobody in Vancity cares about, particularly the only real vocal organized supporters group, will fail miserably. We don't need more reasons to fill the seats, there is nothing more to "sell" I get where you guys are going with it, i just think its a bit futile, that's all. ~It's In the Geneva Convention!
Sorry to hear that. Keep it in mind for next year. If you guys change your minds let us know. Vancouver's a great place and I look forward to a road trip up there at some future game.
I just re read my posts, glad you didn't react negatively to my posts should they have come off as smarmy... I didn't mean to sound off putting or rude, just posting that the SS'ers have already said their bit on it, and not much else has ever generated any momentum here, so my perception is that it's pretty much a dead conversation here in Vancouver. Probably next year I will be planning a west coast road show to visit LA and your lot in Norcal: love that area of the world!
Actually, I thought "We (The Cascadian teams) don't need another Cup to play for just so SJ has something that they might actually have a shot at winning." was a pretty funny jab, so no problem there. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't want the Soccer Silicon Valley Community Foundation (the nonprofit volunteer Quakes fan group that helped make the Heritage Cup a reality) to come off in a bad light among Vancouver fans who may not be aware of our group here in San Jose. So I invite Whitecaps fans to take a quick look at www.ssvcf.org to see what we are about. (Our SSVCF motto is "Building Community Through Soccer" and, in fact, the Heritage Cup relates to that). SSVCF is deliberately separate in its mission from the Casbah and the Ultras which are the supporters groups and Club Quake which is the fan club. At http://www.ssvcf.org/kickautismgallery.html you'll see photos of Joe Cannon at the fundraiser SSVCF set up for him to raise money for his favorite cause, a local autism center that he helps out. As I said, a great guy. - Ned Zuparko SSVCF Board of Directors
My view is the Heritage Cup isn't something I personally am currently interested because it's Cascadia Cup +1. Now if the New York Comsos join the league or lets say Dallas changed there name back to "Dallas Tornado" then it might be something people in Vancouver might be interested in. Not because those teams are bigger, but then it wouldn't be CC +1. Also our club just went through a re-branding which will likely see avoid any 'retro' jersey for at least 3-4 years, which I think would be the best part of any 'Heritage' labeled matches. You also have to remember in our city we are going from 5k people knowing anything about the Whitecaps to 20k in the stadium alone. It's already confusing enough with the League aka Supporters Shield, Playoffs aka MLS Cup, Champions League aka CONCACAF Championship, Voyageurs Cup aka Canadian Championship aka Nutrilite Canadian Championship and the Cascadia Cup. Perhaps a different way of taking this Heritage Cup competition would be instead of making it a in league competition, would be to push for it to be a preseason tournament. Vancouver, Portland and Seattle just had the Casadia Summit preseason tournement. I think if that were to become a yearly thing and San Jose joined it would be a great opportunity.
Even if Vancouver and Portland opt out this year, I still appreciate the chance to post here and let Vancouver fans know about the Heritage Cup. The history of MLS in San Jose probably contributed to the fact that it was a San Jose fan who came up with the Heritage Cup concept. As you know, when MLS began it wanted to distance itself from the NASL and tradition and roots because it wanted its own identity, a young demographic, and no connection to what was perceived as a failed league. So even though the local soccer fan base was still connected to the NASL San Jose Earthquakes, the MLS team was branded the Clash. Many fans resented this lack of appreciation for local soccer tradition. After a half decade the powers that be started to figure out the value of the "Earthquakes" brand, and that the fan base felt a powerful attraction towards that tradition. That was a positive step forward. When AEQ became a caretaker of the Quakes, (and didn't appear to want to spend any more money than was necessary to keep the team afloat) fans felt themselves to be treated like a "red-headed stepchild" and believed that the team belonged to San Jose fans and had since 1974. In fact, AEG was almost ready to sell the Quakes in 2004 or 2005 to a Mexican club who would almost surely have rebranded and rebuilt the organization, renamed the team and cut off from the soccer tradition in the area. That was when the team's GM (Johnny Moore, an ex-NASL 'Quake and local San Jose resident) made a stink at AEG and the League about the possible sale and resigned. As everyone knows the move to Houston was traumatic for the fan base and created a backlash that the current franchise still has to deal with. To the fans it wasn't just moving a team that had been around since 1996 but one that had been around since 1974. Soccer Silicon Valley was responsible for getting the league to keep the name Quakes and the two championships here in San Jose (for the sake of the fan base and their connection to the team since 1974 whether it was NASL or MLS). Before the Quakes came back in 2008 consultants had recommended that the team not use the name Quakes because it was a name linked to a "failed" brand. SSV and many fans of course advised the new owners against that kind of thinking. Anyone following the Quakes the last three years will notice that the team initially tried to build its own new identity and not necessarily connect to the previous Quakes, but that over time it is now making an effort to connect to past traditions while still looking to build its own new history. So for many years Quakes fans felt they were fighting the good fight, not always successfully, to keep tradition and the community it spawned alive and well, and push back against the current league's inclination in the other direction. (To the credit of MLS it has recognized the value of tradition, supporters' groups, etc much more in recent years than in past years). The Heritage Cup was a manifestation of that, Quakes fans' efforts to keep the present strongly rooted in the tradition here. One might be excused for thinking that if Quakes fans had not at times opposed MLS "conventional wisdom" and kept the "Earthquakes" tradition going, that it might have been more difficult for the names "Sounders", "Timbers", and "Whitecaps" to have gained acceptance by the league, new owners, and their business consultants. Not impossible to have done, but maybe the Quakes had broken down a few organization barriers here and there. As the second NASL-named team back in MLS I remember the Sounders had some other names under consideration, but by the time Portland and Vancouver came in I don't think there was any serious opposition to the use of the traditional names (please correct me if I am wrong). Whether that theory is accurate or mere self-centered hubris by San Jose fans, it is clear that EQ fans were very happy to hear that the names and traditions of the "Sounders, Timbers, and 'Caps" were coming back and they looked forward to having those old teams revived in the new MLS. Part of the raison d'etre for the Heritage Cup was to share those old experiences and to create new ones. In some sense for San Jose fans, having four old NASL names and traditions in the league was an example of a successful, almost political, struggle to keep the past from being jettisoned. Perhaps Portland and Vancouver fans , coming into MLS just this year, look through a different lens at the Heritage Cup than do the San Jose fans. As an optimistic Quakes fan, I hope to see Whitecaps and Timbers joining Seattle and San Jose (and maybe the Cosmos?) in the competition in future years.
I don't see why the fact that it currently looks like Cascadia +1 is relevant. Thats just the state of the Heritage cup as it is now. Its not intended to start a rivalry between SJ and the PNW teams. Its intended to promote the heritage of our teams, and is exclusive to those teams who have kept their NASL names. It just so coincides that the only teams eligible for the Heritage Cup are the PNW teams and San Jose. Just like the last two years, despite the existence of the Seattle Sounders as an entity, the SS and the Timbers Army excluded games vs. Seattle from counting in the Cascadia Cup standings. If/when other teams enter the league or change their names to match their old NASL names, they would be included in the Heritage Cup competition. There wouldn't suddenly be a rivalry between VAN and TB or SJ and Cosmos just because there's a Cup to be won. The cup is only tangentially connected to competition. Its just a strange quirk in the way expansion worked that Portland and Vancouver entered MLS at the same time. Take into account what would have happened to the Cascadia Cup had only Vancouver or only Portland been awarded an expansion team. We ask that you do participate in the Heritage Cup as it WILL grow when Cosmos return and if/when other former NASL markets are chosen to have MLS teams with their NASL names. Not because its a piece of hardware to fight over, but because its a piece of hardware that celebrates the unique bond our teams have.
Great post, NedZ! I'm sure you know this, but you left out a huge (imho) contribution on the part of the Earthquakes. I think it is important for the Vancouver fans to read this. When the NASL folded in 1984, the San Jose Earthquakes DID NOT disappear. They joined with FC Seattle and FC Portland (two new teams) and a team in Victoria, BC, to create the Western Soccer Association. This league lasted through the 1980's until it merged with the American Soccer League (a similar league on the west coast that featured the Washington Diplomats, Tampa Bay Rowdies, and Ft. Lauderdale Strikers formerly of the NASL) in 1989 to form the APSL. While that was happening, the Vancouver 86ers, who are the same team as the current Vancouver Whitecaps, joined with other Canadian teams after the 1986 World Cup (for which Canada qualified) to form the Canadian Soccer League. The CSL lasted until the early 1990's and then folded. At that point, the 86ers joined the APSL in 1993. I want to emphasize that if it were not for the contribution of the San Jose Earthquakes through the 1980's after the collapse of the NASL, there would very likely not have been any league for the 86ers to play in after the CSL folded. And thus there would be no Vancouver Whitecaps for you to root for.
The if the CSL and APSL had not merged both leagues would have died. The APSL was down to only five teams and was close to closing its doors when Vancouver 86ers, Montreal Impact and Toronto Blizzard joined the league.
The histories that you both cite above speaks to me of the strength and will to endure of the soccer fanbase in Vancouver, Portland, and Seattle, which is point of the Heritage Cup. I was not a soccer fan during the NASL days. My first "professional" or "semiprofessional" viewing experiences in the San Jose area were the Blackhawks (Wynalda, Troy Dayak, Marcelo Balboa etc). The Blackhawks' owner was looking into becoming the MLS team but it ended up being "The Clash" for a variety of reasons. However, that illustrates there was a continuous line of soccer fans that ran from the NASL to the present, brought full circle when the Clash became the Earthquakes. Interesting article related to "history"at: http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/index.ssf/2011/03/as_portland_enters_major_leagu.html Rob Stevenson posted this on the Quakes forum: "I am pleased to announce the 2011 edition of the Heritage Cup, which will be contested between Seattle Sounders FC and the San Jose Earthquakes. San Jose will host the cup holders on April the 2nd and Seattle will host on October the 15. The 2011 competition rules can be found on the Heritage Cup page. I am also pleased to announce a call for entries for the 2011 Heritage Cup Poster Contest." Anyone can enter the poster contest and possibly win $250, not just San Jose fans, so check it out if you have some artistic talent! http://www.ssvcf.org/heritagecup2011contest.html
BTW, I neglected to mention that you actually have two great community-oriented ex-Quake Whitecaps players. Besides Joe Cannon, Shea Salinas is with you guys now. SSVCF gives the "Andrew Bedard Spirit of the Game Award" (for the story behind it go to http://www.ssvcf.org/andrewbedardaward.html) to a Quakes player each year who exemplifies community service. (http://www.ssvcf.org/andrewbedardnominees.html, and click on "show details" for the years 2008 and 2009). Joe won the inaugural award in 2008, and Shea won in 2009 . Jason Hernandez took it home last season. Based on the fact that our first two winners are no longer with the Quakes, I wonder if that means Jason should start packing his bags? :^)
(If anyone is interested, on the Earthquakes site the Heritage Cup discussion thread was closed and now there is a new thread called The Heritage Cup 2011 where the conversation can be continued.I just posted this on that thread and thought the idea might appeal to some of you if you favor any alternate formats): In the previous Heritage Cup thread, Threeapples wrote: " My suggestion is to make the Heritage Cup a boxing-style challenge-based trophy." Seraphim wrote: "If Portland, San Jose, Seattle and Vancouver are all in the Heritage Cup, then here are the potential Heritage Cup games occurring during the regular season (all listed PST as we are all located on the West Coast): Saturday, April 2nd 7:30pm San Jose vs. Seattle @ Buck Shaw Stadium Wednesday, May 11th 7:00pm Vancouver vs. San Jose @ Empire Field Saturday, May 14th 8:00pm Seattle vs. Portland @ Qwest Field Saturday, June 11th 7:30pm Seattle vs. Vancouver @ Qwest Field Sunday, July 10th 5:00pm Portland vs. Seattle @ PGE Park Wednesday, July 20th 7:00pm San Jose vs. Vancouver @ Buck Shaw Stadium Saturday, August 6th 7:30pm San Jose vs. Portland @ Buck Shaw Stadium Saturday, August 20th 7:00pm Portland vs. Vancouver @ PGE Park Wednesday, September 21st 7:30pm Portland vs. San Jose @ PGE Park Saturday, September 24th 7:30pm Vancouver vs. Seattle @ Empire Field Sunday, October 2nd 1:30pm Vancouver vs. Portland @ BC Place Saturday, October 15th 7:30pm Seattle vs. San Jose @ Qwest Field" We will have the actual 2011 Cup using last year's format between Seattle and San Jose which will have the HC awarded to one or the other at year's end. I am curious to see how Threeapples's idea might look if Portland and Vancouver had joined in this season and we had the boxing format. Therefore, as a sort of living laboratory, if Threeapples or Seraphim (or anyone else) is willing to make the effort, I propose a "Fantasy 2011 Heritage Cup Table" be kept. That is, after each of the games listed above, keep track of who might have taken or defended the Heritage Cup at any one time. Post the results in this thread, and I will repost it in the Heritage Cup threads on the sites of the other three cities. That might also give us an idea of how many times it would have to be hauled to a different city and presented to the winner or brought back home and what logistics or Supporters Groups/Front Office cooperation might be needed. A sort of dry run in case we actually use it next year.
On today's EQ website: http://www.sjearthquakes.com/news/2011/03/centerline-report-taking-stock-heritage-cup
With the 2-2 tie Saturday night between Seattle and San Jose, the Cup will be decided at the end of the season when the Quakes visit Seattle. A Sounders win will retain the Cup for them. I don't remember the tiebreaker rules off the top of my head, but Seattle's two away goals mean the Quakes will probably need a win to get the Cup back. If this year's format had been a "boxing " setup with Portland and Vancouver included, Seattle would continue to hold the Cup after Saturday's tie with the Quakes until May 14. Then Portland would have to beat the Sounders to take the Cup back to Oregon. BTW, amazing comeback by the Whitecaps Saturday...
Yeah, it was pretty stunning, one of those things those there will never forget. Thanks for the update, I'm interested to see how the boxing format plays out.
Since Portland and Seattle just tied, hypothetically Seattle would still hold the Cup and you guys would be the next contender to challenge for it on June 11. Last time I posted here I was congratulating Vancouver on a comeback, and now you guys did it again (this time to us) just last week.
Continuing the "fantasy" boxing format , last Saturday's 2-2 tie means the Sounders would still hold the Cup until July 10th Portland vs. Seattle. (And again, as in past posts, I have to acknowledge ANOTHER amazing Vancouver moment, that Goal of the Year candidate on June 11 !!!) We are still accepting entries in our 2011 Heritage Cup Poster contest. The $250 prize is open to all, not just San Jose and Seattle supporters, even though this year's poster would feature only those two teams.
Thanks for the updates, Ned. This format actually crossed my mind late in the match Saturday - realizing the tie meant Seattle would retain the Cup if this system were in place.
I erred when I said any fan can enter the poster contest. This year's rules limit poster entries to "... all legal U.S. residents age 18 or older with a valid social security number residing in the Nine County Bay Area [San Francisco Bay Area] or in the State of Washington. " I remain hopeful Vancouver will join the competition some time in the future, when Whitecaps fans will be free to submit entries. So I am guilty of wishful thinking. :^) The "boxing format" seems like a very clever idea and would, I think, be a unique addition. However, it would require commitment on the part of supporters group and front office willingness to pay attention to it, because the cup would have to be reliably transported, held, and potentially handed off many times during the season to another group. The front offices would also have to agree to provide some time or representatives to highlight the keeping or passing of the cup during the season. As we keep track of this format in a virtual sense, we hope to see what it takes to make it work, or unforeseen consequences which might arise. If it seems like more trouble than it is worth, the traditional format would continue.
The "boxing format" is not realistic in practice. That said, there is no good reason to not maintain the round-robin format with all the eligible teams. I sincerely hope that the narrow-minded overly-self-conscious provincialists in Vancouver and Portland come around and realize that they are currently obstructing a truly beautiful asset to North American soccer culture.
Sharing NASL names from the 1970's is a bit of a stretch to make it a meaningful cup that supporters will care about. Especially when the Portland/Seatlle/Vancouver bunch have have the Cascadia cup for years and it means something to the clubs. There is no connection to the Earthquakes or whatever team takes an NASL name next. Without that emotional connection it is a hard sell to most supporters. I really think San Jose supporters should try to get into some sort of cup with the other California teams as you can at least send supporters back and forth to the away games easily and you have geography to make that emotional connection (if you already have such a cup, then I apologize for being repetitive).
The Earthquake/Galaxy rivalry between supporters is almost legendary here, with no Cup of any kind attached to it.