Growing a rivalry naturally

I think this is the biggest hurdle for domestic pro soccer int he US. Geography or some format change will not make true rivals. Rivalries come from battling against a team for a prize year after year, generation after generation. This can happen in any sport, at any level, even down to the HS/amateur level. The problem is that our clubs and even leagues are so new (compared to other sports and the rest of the world). And you can't manufacture real rivalry. I think you can see some true rivalries in the PNW because the clubs have played against each other for decades. But most MLS rivalries will take years IMO.

I do think there is a real growing rivalry between MLS fans/Non-MLS fans because the 'prize' is their competing visions for soccer in this country. And while the teams/leagues are relatively new, the fight to change the landscape of US soccer is pretty old. Its why I don't mind that kind of fighting on these boards. Some of the claims people make are sometimes insane, but it feels like a real rivalry. Its not something that MLS made up and attached some sponsor to. I'm not sure how productive it is, but its nice to see fan groups generally dislike each other. Hopefully it can help USOC grow.

 

Let's take a look at one example of what would be a great rivalry, were the other club to actually exist in MLS: Kansas City and St. Louis.
As MLS exists, Sporting KC doesn't really have a true rival. Their fans might dislike Houston and Seattle more than other clubs, but these fall short of rival status.
But where a club to take root in St Louis, SKC fans would be on board to hate it from day one.
It may be a flawed example when compared to other potential rivalries, because it is a fairly multi-layered one, and an MLS club in St Louis would only add to the existing rivalry. Two cities in the same state, already competing for state dollars for everything from highways to schools. The cities compete economically, for businesses and for residents. They also have a history of sporting franchises that, somewhat, compete. The most obvious example of that would be the Royals and Cardinals, and specifically the 1985 World Series.
Now, there would be nothing about a new club MLS club in St Louis, besides location, that would imply rivalry. So in that sense, it wouldn't be a naturally grown competition between the clubs. There cannot be past matches that led to bad blood, there would be no heartbreaking loses or stunning or meaningful victories.
But it would be hard to believe that the mere existence of a club in both cities would not be seen as an instant, automatic rivalry.
So. proximity matters.

 

We've had no issue with a naturally grown rivalry with Minny

 

Beat the crap out of their supporters

 

Once again, this is an issue where soccer exceptionalism is beginning to rear its head. Sure, some rivalries in American sports are geographic. Alabama/Auburn, Ohio State/TTUN, NYY/Boston. But rivalries aren't necessarily geographic and sometimes they might be pretty one-sided. Growing up as a Reds fan, my dad hated the Dodgers. LA and Cincinnati are 2,000 miles from each other but the old NL West rivalry was still there. The Dallas most annoying football team in America and the Washington Racist Names are big rivals but they're not anywhere close to each other geographically.

Natural rivalries can come from other things. Some Columbus fans still hate Seattle with a passion because of Capogate. I don't think we're going to see Cascadia-like rivalries in MLS outside of NY and LA (Unless San Deigo, Indianapolis and Cincinnati all get teams). We'll have good games and pretty good rivalries but I think people hoping for North London Derbies are going to be disappointed.

 

Some of the biggest rivalries in MLS come from existing rivalries between cities or regions. For example, LA and SJ have the whole SoCal/NorCal rivalry going (and the very real fight between the regions over water rights), and some memorable playoff encounters only add to that. Similarly, being originally from Houston (years before Houston had the Dynamo) I can say that most of us in Houston hated Dallas teams in all sports; the Texas derby isn't just based on the teams being close together.

 

You beat me to it on this one. There are already rivalries between cities and regions which would exist even without sports. I went to college between LA and SF and at parties it was as predictable as someone puking that there would eventually be a friendly discussion/debate/fight between NorCal and SoCal people. And sports was usually a very small part of it, instead the discussions focused around water stealing, putting "the" in front of names of freeways, and the wider cultural, political, philosophical differences between the areas.

So with that background it seems only natural that there would be a rivalry between any sports teams that play each other regularly.

I agree with your basic premise that a rivalry does not HAVE to be geographic. And that it can be based almost exclusively on sporting differences. Like the Cowboys and the DC NFL team. But I do think a geographic proximity and an already existing rivalry between cities does add more and would help. Particularly in MLS' case where you are trying to develop rivalries pretty much from scratch. So I do think it's in the leagues best interest to encourage them, and set the league up with geographically based conferences and eventually divisions to make those games mean even more.

 

I think that RBNY and NYCFC will turn into a serious rivalry, but I don't think that it will be one that can be dismissed as manufactured. If two teams and their supporters really hate each other and truly yearn to humiliate each other, that's a real rivalry, not a manufactured one.

 

I don't know if you can really "grow" a rivalry... it just kinda happens.

If you're focusing on your new NPSL club, I can say that in our first season, we developed a rivalry with Liverpool Warriors after an exciting and well attended season opener, and the fans came back for a late season game here in which their team dogpiled in front of our home fans after getting an equalizer in injury time... it helped that the two clubs were competing for 1st place in a four team division for the entire season, and the following season produced one of the most exciting (if at times sloppy) games I've ever witnessed as a soccer fan.

I can say FC Wichita in their first season had an instant rivalry with the Athletics both due to geography and that we had won the division the past two seasons... Wichita brought in a busload of fans for a late season match here last July... and were greeted by our supporters/tailgate who would later sing the ever popular, "It must suck to live in Wichita!"

Geography will be a factor, but a rivalry can grow naturally based on team competitiveness and rival fans.

 

I feel like rivalries are viewed a little differently here than in the UK (I can't speak for other nations).

For me personally, LAFC will be a rival from day one. They are in my area, competing with my club for our fans and to be the top club in my immediate vicinity.

More importantly though, a rivalry to me is based largely on banter and bragging rights. With victory comes the license to gloriously rip the piss out of the team you just beat. If you are from the same city, you're more likely to cross paths and interact. Then it's mock or be mocked.

If I wind up having an LAFC fan in the cube next to me, I can't imagine not exchanging friendly barbs over our clubs respective fortunes. Likewise, if there's a Montreal Impact fan next to me, I don't see it being the same.

If there was a Quakes fan next to me, I would make it a daily mission to bring in all manner of containers that I have needlessly and pointlessly filled with tap water.

 

My experience with sports rivalry has been predominately history-based. It takes stories and tales of seasons past, play-off series' (where they exist) and controversial plays/calls. Geography aside, I feel like a rivalry is inherited through fandom passed from one fan to the next. Generations is definitely the not the right term, as if there is no relevance/immediacy to the story it can't be taken up by the next fan, but I do think it takes more than a couple good stories to solidify a rivalry naturally...

Even if you weren't there for that particular game or series, the energy of the next game changes once you've heard about it from more than one fan who has.

 

The Toronto-Montreal Rivalry has been 250 years in the making. Sometimes all that's needed is a different urban culture, stereotyping and time.

 

There are youtube videos of Toronto and Columbus fans baiting each other and read that quite a hostile rivalry had built up between the 2 before MTL came along.

And why isn't there a French language "Forum du Footy" under the MLS section? We don't want this site banned in Canada.

 

Hmm... not an American (I'm from Romania, and I have little to do with MLS), but... this subject picked my interest while browsing through the BS threads, so I'd like to make 2 points:

1) if you want a real rivalry (why would you want that, though?) just do research on what's causing Schalke and Dortmund to be death rivals, or Liverpool and Everton, Lazio and AS Roma, River Plate and Boca Juniors, etc... you get the point. So, study these famous rivalries and see what they have in common and then try to find something in MLS that's close to these rivalries and voila! You have a rivalry ... although, frankly speaking I've never been a fan of hardcore rivalries, and I think they do more harm to the sport and society mainly, then they do good

2) I think a potential rivalry of MLS would be NYRB with NYFC. Wouldn't it??

 

Marks out of 10 (10 max). Please add others.

Portland - Vancouver
Portland - Seattle
Seattle - Vancouver
Portland - Vancouver
San Jose - Seattle
San Jose - Los Angeles's
Montreal - Toronto
Columbus - Toronto
Montreal - Columbus
NYC FC - Red Bulls
NYC FC - Everyone
SKC - St Louis
NE - Red Bulls
DC - Philly
Houston - Dallas
KC - Columbus
Salt Lake - Colorado
Salt Lake - San Jose
Colorado - Salt Lake

(Orlando - Miami)?
(LA FC - LA Galaxy)?
(Atlanta - Dallas/Houston/Orlando or Minnesota)?
(Chicago - Minnesota)?

(Did I miss anyone)

 

Not sure I understand you ... What's with all those teams? You want me to pick who I think would be rivals, or??

 

Yes and judge how much rivalry there is currently between the teams mentioned.

 

Um... that's one hell of a task for me since I'm not watching MLS constantly and I don't know the American history so that I can come up with real rivalries, but... I'll answer your question based mostly on hunch and what I've read on this forum (order doesn't matter):

Orlando - Miami
LA FC - LA Galaxy
NYC FC - RB NY
DC - Philly
Columbus - Toronto
Houston - Dallas

 

Is that how long you expect it to be before they meet again in the playoffs?

 

After I wrote my post I realized it sounded eerily similar to describing how hatred/xenophobia/racism "grows naturally". Although sports is a reflection of culture... Real rivalries like the ones you have mentioned are not what anyone should strive for.

@Initial B That rivalry is the one I was thinking of, Pearson Cup?? Along with what you mentioned it is also fuelled by the competition to being the economic centre of our country, and an effigy of our former opposing colonial roots. This rivalry will likely never go out of style.

 

I pay more attention to the West since I'm in California, but my impression is that the Toronto-Columbus rivalry grew on the field rather than because of a preexisting cultural rivalry. Much like LA's rivalries with RSL and Seattle, not so much like the NorCal/SoCal divide.

 

While it's died down in recent years, surely DC and LA should be mentioned as a storied MLS rivalry?

 

Obviously rivalries can be purely sporting, or purely geographic. The best contain elements of both. I guess to answer the original post, the best rivalries will be natural ones that develop from this. But that doesn't mean the fans and the league can't push it along to encourage it.