Group G: Preview & Analysis

Discussion in 'GROUP G: Belgium, England, Tunisia, Panama' started by Blondo, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    >>> a guide to the grounds hosting games in Russia

    Climate: average highs of 28-22C and lows of 18-12C at the relevant venues
    Chance of precipitation (such an underrated factor): 33%-60%
    Wind speed: windsock hanging flaccid

    Who do the betting markets think will qualify from this group:

    1. Belgium priced at 1/10
    2. England .......... at 1/7
    3. Tunisia ............ at 9/2
    4. Panama .......... at 9/1

    Value of starting line-ups according to transfermarkt (+ 3 most expensive players):

    1. Belgium ... +/- €455m ... Hazard, KDB and Lukaku
    2. England ... +/- €404m ... Kane, Alli and Sterling
    3. Tunisia ..... +/- €25m ..... Khazri, Abdennour and Msakni
    4. Panama ... +/- €6m ....... Torres, Baloy and Godoy
     
  2. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Belgium and England have intimate knowledge of each other, with so many players plying their trade in the PL:

    Chelsea

    Hazard, Courtois and Batsman v. Cahill

    City

    KDB and Kompany v. Sterling, Stones and Walker

    Spurs

    Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Dembele v. Kane, Alli and Dier (+/- Winks, Rose and Trippier)

    Man United

    Lukaku and Fellaini v. Rashford, Lingard, Smalling and Jones

    ... and then there's Migs, Origi (playing in Germany now, on loan), Benteke, Mirallas, Chadli, Kabasele, Defour, ... v. Henderson, Lallana, Ox, Gomez, Pickford, et al. AFAIK England will solely call up PL players while the likes of Mertens, Nainggolan, Meunier, Tielemans, Witsel, Vermaelen, T.Hazard, Carrasco, et al. are on Belgium's shortlist.

    Also, Roberto Martinez and Thierry Henry are very familiar with the PL and will often run into their counterpart in the England staff. We know each other all too well.

    I doubt either Belgium or England will underestimate the opposition and both will be well-prepared. England will keep their Ro16 exit v. Iceland and group stage exit in 2014 in mind while Belgium will be wary of another wolf in sheep's clothing, luckily this time Wales won't be waiting in the quarters. The aim should be to get all 6 points from the first two games with the final group game, between Belgium and England, deciding who'll be runners-up and who'll top the group. I'd expect both Panama and Tunisia to sit, pack and park in their first two games.

    Tunisia are better equipped (than Panama) to throw a spanner into the works: well-organised, disciplined, fullbacks that can cause head-aches, a good engine room, a few creative players and on average Tunisians have decent technique ... Leekens, former Tunisia manager, spoke highly of Msakni but TBH besides Abdennour, Khazri and those that play in Belgium I hadn't heard of any of their other players (unless the likes of Skhiri join). Reportedly, Tunisia are viewing their tie with England as the key game to advance from the group. Usually teams start cautiously in their World Cup opener and even though Tunisia's manager said he fancies his chances to take points off England Harry Kane's team should get over the line.

    Panama won't go down without a fight but their first two matches are very lopsided affairs. The best shot at a result will come in the tie with Tunisia. Admittingly, Panama are something of an unknown quantity. A canal, fancy hats, papers, ... and I already start struggling. Please feel free to fill me in about the team. Of course the same goes for the others in the group.
     
  3. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    They are a very unique team. The best I can do is say that they are not a typical type of Central American team that is usually made up of little short guys who are running around and technically okay. They play a bit more like a Caribbean team with physicality but still have some technique on the ball. Many of their best players have played in Colombia but now MLS seems to be the home of them as they age. Speaking of age they are the oldest team in the tournament. That can be a blessing and a curse.

    Their manager is Colombian and has managed three teams within the World Cup (Colombia, Ecuador and now Panama) So he has been there and done that and the stage won't be that new to him.

    At best I think they can be like Trinidad and Tobago and shock Belgium or England with a draw. But Not really expecting more than a point from this team. Offensively they really don't do well outside of their home grounds. And their Defense is very leaky too.
     
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  4. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    His experience at the World Cup hasn't gone unnoticed. It has been contrasted to the (in)experience of both Belgium's and England's manager who are fairly young compared to other managers in the international game. Southgate and Martinez have never managed a team in the World Cup. Belgium provided a bit of experience in Martinez's staff but with Thierry Henry asking for the assistant job we're really lucky to have a World Cup winner with us, especially as Belgium's young strikers were misfiring and needed his help and insight. I guess England, with their bottomless resources, have given Southgate everything he could possibly need as well. Germany are on another level though. Reportedly, Belgium were quicker to lock down the basecamp that Germany also wanted to stay at. Instead the Germans will build one just for their stay in Russia, like they did in Brazil. G'damn, the Germans aren't messing around.
     
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  5. W.A.S.P.

    W.A.S.P. Member+

    Leeds United
    England
    Sep 20, 2012
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    As an England fan I am by no means assuming we'll walk over Tunisia and Panama. We'll most likely dominate possession and maybe barely snatch a goal like in the Euros.

    Southgate has been incredibley bland with his selections since the summer and we're afraid he'll pick the likes of Jordan Henderson and Jake Livermore when they shouldn't be near the team right now. They're both terrible for the style of football we'll play because they are not technically gifted/lack confidence of forward passing. Henderson will probably get called in, but if he doesn't start then I'm fine with that. I'm more hopeful than ever that we can have most of our best players fit for selection just so Livermore won't be.

    Right now we're playing a 3-4-3 which can work out well, but we need to play the right players for it. That may mean we'll have to drop Dele or Sterling to fit one of them in because both will really only be able to play as a No. 10 that system. It's vital that Lallana is healthy because he adds flair and energy. Our attacking options are pretty good right now:

    Kane (Tottenham): 16 goals in 18 matches
    Vardy (Leicester): 7 goals in 15 matches
    Rashford (Man United): 7 goals in 23 matches
    Abraham (Swansea City on loan from Chelsea): 5 goals in 16 matches
    Sturridge (Liverpool): 3 goals in 13 matches
    Welbeck (Arsenal): 3 goals in 8 matches
    Sterling (Man City): 13 goals in 19 matches
    Dele (Tottenham): 7 goals in 18 matches
     
  6. W.A.S.P.

    W.A.S.P. Member+

    Leeds United
    England
    Sep 20, 2012
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Having said all of that I can definitely see England beating Belgium because we prefer to counter-attack and we do it well. Belgium aren't the greatest at defending as a team and there's evidence of that with giving up three goals to Bosnia late in qualifying. The trick to hold England off is by simply making them come and get past your 8 or 9 defenders instead of trying to chase them with 3 or 4 on counter-attacks. There's a reason why we scored 18 goals off the likes of Slovakia, Scotland, Malta, Slovenia, and Lithuania in 10 matches.

    I honestly can't see how we can't beat Panama. Despite our flaws and inept managing our players are too smart and I doubt Panaman will be able to stay patient behind the ball for 90 minutes. I fear Tunisia because from what I've heard now they're a typical team that England have such a hard time breaking down. That game could go either way.

    Scenario 1
    Belgium 9
    England 4
    Tunisia 4
    Panama 0

    Scenario 2
    Belgium 7
    England 7
    Tunisia 1
    Panama 1

    Scenario 3
    England 7
    Belgium 6
    Tunisia 4
    Panama 0
     
  7. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
  8. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    I think we will struggle to advance from the group, I predicted elsewhere that I can see England and Panama progressing.

    Too many people are happy we end the group against England. I think it would have been better to start the group against England, then lose and then know we need two wins from the other two games.

    As it stands now, we will almost certainly drop points against Panama (no one over here gives them any respect) which will probably mean we will need something against England regardless of what we do against Tunisia.
     
  9. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    The more I read that post the more I can see your concern. Panama can get a point which will make Belgium really have to force the issue in the next two matches.

    That said, Belgium has too much offensive talent for Panama and should get the three points on paper. They gave up 4 goals to USA in Qualifying. Pulisic was running all over them like he was Messi. And they made Altidore look like he was Lewandoski.

    Conventional wisdom says that your attacking players can do better.
    But that is the fun of the World Cup, you just don't know which teams will show up and which teams will not.
     
  10. Philip J. Fry

    Philip J. Fry Member+

    Mexico
    Jun 12, 2013
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    I've seen Panama play. I don't see them getting a single point here. They lack youth and talent and depend too much on playing at home.
     
  11. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    When the first two matchdays go as expected and the final group game only decides who, between Belgium and England, will top the group then it wouldn't be the worst idea to play a glorified B team, especially to let players carrying knocks recuperate and taking card accumulation into account. England and Belgium both going for it would be a physically gruelling match, basically a PL game with a lot of the best players in the league.

    There's a fair chance this can be avoided. I'd love to have the choice to conserve energy in the final group game. I don't mind if that means the tie with England could be lost. The cross over is with Poland's group, a very open, balanced group with sides that might have to grind each other down to qualify. Even Japan will make themselves hard to break down and usually they show great energy. No matter who qualifies from group H it will be a decent team. So there's not much to gain by coming fist instead of second in group G.
     
  12. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Well, at least you're more cheerful than usual (seeing you don't feel we'll definitely drop points against Panama as if it was a law of nature). Still Panama's odds are very long. It would be a massive upset to spill points. Bet the farm and you'll be filthy rich.

    [​IMG]

    I remember you making this prediction, with Belgium reaching the quarters the most likely outcome and not surviving the group being less likely than advancing to the semis. In before: we can't complain about the group we were drawn into, AT ALL, try to do so in person and you'll get slapped.

    Opponents don't come much softer than Panama and Tunisia, giving you the opportunity to find your feet. Losing the first game, even if it were against England, is NOT good news. Quite the contrary. Belgium's schedule allows the team to start slow and grow in the tournament. Also, if England win against Tunisia then the chances increase that Tunisia will open up a bit in the next game against Belgium. For the final group game, if Belgium aren't already through England are the most likely team that can relax (only Belgium are more likely to have taken all 6 points by then).

    Objectively, you're NOT allowed to whine about Belgium's schedule or our group. This group leaves no room for excuses. Belgium must advance or the team could as well stay home and save us the bother.
     
  13. Datderfranny

    Datderfranny Member

    Apr 1, 2015
    Detroit, MI
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I should have posted this here...

    England again overestimates its talent and underestimates its opponents, and will fall flat on its face with Panama going through.

    I see England getting the win over Tunisia Matchday 1 and coming out of it typically overconfident, with English pundits even talking such nonsense as winning the group. For the other matchday 1 game, I see Panama bunkering, but eventually conceding 1-0 or 2-0 to Belgium.

    On matchday 2, England will be looking past Panama toward Belgium, and Panama will pull the upset leaving England shocked, whining, and wondering, per usual.

    Panama will get a result on matchday 3 against Tunisia, with England getting destroyed by Belgium even though Belgium won't have a whole lot to play for at that point.

    Belgium 9
    Panama 4
    England 3
    Tunisia 1

    England currently 6 to 1 to be eliminated during group play is a juicy price.
     
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  14. W.A.S.P.

    W.A.S.P. Member+

    Leeds United
    England
    Sep 20, 2012
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Generalize much?

    The media perhaps comes off as cocky as soon as things go our way, but I promise you the vast majority of England fans are pesimistic about our chances going forward because they look at what Southgate is doing and it's not good. England won't look past anybody especially what happened to us against Iceland. You should also watch highlights of the last few times we've played Germany, France, Brazil, and Spain. Mixed results, but they were competitve all the way through and we look the most dangerous against those kind of sides as opposed to weaker opposition.

    Quite naive of you to say those things.
     
    Marcho Gamgee repped this.
  15. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Honestly, I did not expect the mystery that is Panama to be so baffling. Yet here we are. Two antipodal stances towards Panama. Either they'll qualify with relative ease or they're really an underdog, arguably the weakest team along with Saudi Arabia. I just hope nobody lost too much sleep researching Panamanian players and tactics. Lineker, Shearer and Wrightie had bags under their eyes from doing exactly that :ninja: (or maybe the night before taping MOTD was really fun, TBH I doubt they did any research unless Panama was the name of a stripper).

    Who knows maybe technique won't be as important as it is in today’s game and having, quality-wise, the better players won't have much of an impact in this group (TBH it will have an impact, a rather big one as there's such a gulf in talent between the sides that face each other on the first two MDs). Another key factor, mental strength, which is perhaps more important than team spirit, being tactically and physically prepared, etc. could be decisive. In the past both Belgium and England haven't really demonstrated that they handle pressure well and have no problems coping with the mental demands of getting a result. At least it's not on the same level these players display at their clubs. Failure often is fuel for the next tournament though.

    For country, qualifiers and friendlies will get you ready but there's no substitute for the big stage. Belgium did score plenty of late winners, had to come from behind, grinded out ugly wins, and so on during the Brazil campaign but more often than not that was the result of the previous manager lacking tactical nous and being bailed out by the quality of the players at his disposal (often scoring from play in transition as you'd expect when there's no plan for how to attack). Despite players patiently working the ball, instead of panicking, Belgium were short of ideas when having to deal with cynical teams, tactical fouling, time-wasting, gamesmanship, etc. as well. Seeing out the game is easy when you're ahead by 4 but things won't necessarily go your way. I can hope Belgium have improved, and be quite selective when looking for evidence that Belgium have indeed done so, yet we'll only find out in Russia (as is the case for every team, yet for some teams it's less of an issue).
     
    Datderfranny repped this.
  16. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I know it is a relatively long way out until June and not to mention good club form does not always equate to good National team form (especially when it applies to England)...
    ...but there are not too many players on the planet hotter than Raheem Sterling. The guy has been scoring a lot of goals and has been crucial in many attacks and breaks. Not only scoring tap ins or goals that are a part of the many routes Man Citeh has thrusted upon their oppnonets. He is also scoring incredible game winners late in games and is providing an offensive energy that team needs to win many Cups this year.

    If he could some how, some way play even half as good as he is playing for Citeh then watch out.
    Something to keep an eye on is how his confidence can be carried into the summer.
     
    W.A.S.P. and Philip J. Fry repped this.
  17. W.A.S.P.

    W.A.S.P. Member+

    Leeds United
    England
    Sep 20, 2012
    St. Louis
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I hope he can, but Raheem can never translate his form over to the national team. For me his best game for England came against Italy in the first game of the 2014 World Cup.
     
  18. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Not really on the field analysis but this kinda sucks:
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5249065/brass-bands-banned-from-world-cup-2018-in-russia/

    Over the last few decades I have grown acustom to listning to the English chants during International competitions with the band playing in the stands. My personal favorite is the Great Escape theme song sounding chant. I guess they can do it without the cheesy sounding band but it won't be the same to this nuetral fan here.
     
  19. Marcho Gamgee

    Marcho Gamgee Member+

    England
    Apr 25, 2015
    Somewhere in English Arrogance land
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    Wouldn't pay him much attention to be honest, clearly just trolling and not a very good one at that.
     
  20. HansWorldCup

    HansWorldCup Member

    Roma
    Sweden
    Jan 10, 2018
    Is this Panama better then Honduras in Brazil 2014 ?
    Tunisia looking good with the coach. Didnt lost a match in the qualify. They have Mskani!! And they playing not like they play before. For me Tunisia was a pretty boring team before, not the same now. I think they can get points against England and Belgium
     
  21. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I would say no. Honduras was better.
    Although Panamanians would probably disagree.
     
  22. Datderfranny

    Datderfranny Member

    Apr 1, 2015
    Detroit, MI
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not trolling! The fact that you think I'm trolling sort of proves my point. English fans acting like it's impossible or crazy talk for Panama (or Tunisia) to finish ahead of them is just classic short-sighted arrogance. Anything can happen in a 3 game slate, short of maybe the absolute cream of the crop like Germany or Brazil not going through.
     
  23. Datderfranny

    Datderfranny Member

    Apr 1, 2015
    Detroit, MI
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Panama is miles better than 2014 honduras, but just an opinion, as is everything else in this thread.
     
  24. HansWorldCup

    HansWorldCup Member

    Roma
    Sweden
    Jan 10, 2018
    hehe oki thanks
     
  25. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Why do you say they are better?
     

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