Aside from this being a group of death, there are some grudge matches here. I'll open with mine and you guys can let the rest of us know about yours. USA/Germany. It's 2002. The world still views the US as a football backwater. We call it soccer here and we're okay with that. Having come off of a disaster 1998 world cup that included a humiliating loss to Iran of all teams, there was little optimism here except for the undying, irrational hope that characterizes American culture at large. Those of us who have grown up playing the sport over the past 30 years understand that we're not to be discounted, but we haven't lifted the cup. Nobody will believe its possible until it happens. Well...it was closer to happening that people realized... The USA was placed in an incredibly difficult group including the Portuguese "Golden Generation" (of its era apparently...there seems to be a new Portuguese "Golden Generation" every so many years) of Figo and co. The US team disposes of the Portuguese emphatically within the first 45 minutes of play with a flourish of goals. They go on to get walloped by a strong Polish side and then tie the hosts South Korea, passing through to the next round where they coin the term "dos a cero" win an infamous win over Mexico that tipped the balance of power between the two nations for the foreseeable future. That's where things got cray-cray. The US faced Oliver Kahn, Ballack, Klose, and the powerhouse Germans. The match was back and forth with both teams creating excellent chances. Germany scored just before half on a set piece and the US came out firing, creating chances after half time. It was an entertaining match. About 50 minutes in, the US beat Oliver Kahn on a set piece and Torsten Frings cleared the ball off of the line with a hand ball. It should have been called a penalty and Frings should have been given a straight red. The US pressed the game for the remaining run of time but could not get that elusive goal. The US team was a FIFA reffing blunder away from the World Cup semifinal. Germany took our spot. They were given our place by this FIFA ref. US fans have not forgotten this.
Clearly not an intentional handball (his arm does not move before it hits him), though by the rules of the day the ref could have called it, but not necessarily. If it was called, there's no guarantee that the US would have scored on the PK (though very likely), and if they had scored, that only ties the game, there's nothing to say that the US would have gone on to win for sure. That said, no matter what your team, sometimes these calls go against you, sometimes for you. In the end it largely evens out for everyone. Most people just seem to remember the former and not the latter.
The fact that the arm doesn't move, does not determine whether something was intentional. The referee doesn't play mindreader. Question is: Should the arm have been there in the first place? The answer is no. Frings blocked the ball from going into the net by keeping his arm where it shouldn't have been. There is no excuse because the ball was moving pretty slowly. That's a stonewall penalty. The possibility to award a penalty goal would have made this situation much more easier for the referee.
You left out the Ant-Anglo conspiracy. Otherwise solid effort. Shots at Mexico, Iran, and Portugal all in one thread. Should'a would'a could'a. Scotland should've sent good teams in the 60s. England should have played pre-1950.
The team with the target on its back in this group is definitely Germany. Portugal wants revenge against the USA for what happened in 2002. USA wants revenge on Ghana for what happened in 2006 and 2010. Ghana lost to Germany in the group stage in 2010. Germany is 4-0 against this year's group mates in the World Cup. Ghana is 2-1. USA is 1-4. Portugal is 0-2. Portugal and Ghana play each other for the first time ever in a World Cup on the final match day of Group G. That game could be crucial to see which one advances to the Round of 16, or it could mean nothing at all. Pride and prowess will be on display in all 3 matches for each team...can't wait for the World Cup to start...Thursday seems like an eternity away from today.
Frings lets the arm linger and stiffens it to change the direction of the ball. There is no debate about whether or not it was a handball. That part is obvious and needs no weasel-wording. It's a self-evident truth. The only debate is over whether not it is intentional, which favors the American argument pretty heavily. The US were pressing the match, much to the Germans dismay. Oliver Kahn was their saving grace. Maybe the US goes on to win maybe they don't. But what we do know is that the likelihood is that the score would have been tied with the US riding a tidal wave of momentum into the last quarter of the game and having bossed the second half. You have to assume with just as much faith that the Germans would have been able to survive what followed as you would to assume that the US would have scored. Calls do not "even out". Every World Cup since 2002 has seen some ridiculous game-changing calls put the Americans at a disadvantage. Frings' handball, the Onyewu penalty against Ghana, the Beasley goal pulled off the board against Italy as well as the red card in that match, the mysterious call that kept Edu's game winner off the board against Slovenia, ... those are the four that have knee-capped the US of late. I'd like you to give me the four that balance those out. Ha. Good luck with that one If what you're saying is that the US are due three favorable calls that advance them from each stage of this world cup into the finals, then Ill take it.
I don't follow the US closely enough to know where they've been on the good end of an iffy call (save for the 2007 Gold Cup, but I only know that one because Canada was on the wrong end of that one), but I have very little doubt that either there have been or there will be. It takes a long time, but everyone gets evened out in the end. Like I said, the calls against are glaring to fans of a team, and very dim on the calls for. People are always quick to say "we were robbed" but very slow to say "we got away with one".
Sure. The only one we "got away with" was a handball clearance on a header against Mexico in the 2002 Cup. Other than that, the deck is pretty well stacked against us.
It almost sounds to me like you're pretty much saying that the only reason that the US has yet to win the World Cup is because of bad refereeing.
No but if bad refereeing hadn't let Frings get away with one, we might be been very, very close for the first time in 70ish years. Since then the only thing stopping the US has been the US. And Ghana. We are capable of playing, and probably beating, anyone on any given day. Also capable of the reverse.
You're exagerating too much. The match before, Mexico were victims of the same kind of handball against the USMNT, had it been rightly called, it might have changed the dynamics of the game. Which is not responsible at all for your elimination, it's not like if you needed a draw to qualify. Because McBride, who was involved with the play, was offside. Don't forget that the only reason the US scored in this match was because an Italian inexplicably put the ball in his own net by missing his clearance. If you're speaking about Mastroeni's red, there's nothing scandalous about it (from an unbiased POV, of course). That was a bad call, but then again you had your fair share of luck with your draw against England through a ridiculous blunder from Robert Green which allowed you to begin your campaign without a loss.
Surely not at that time. Probably the best goalie with Kahn but the rest..... Im afraid you guys aint long enough around for saying that. Let's talk about it again when you guys got two ridiculous calls against ya in a World Cup final. The difference between three or four stars on a shirt.
Correction, in 2002, the USA played Portugal first, then South Korea, then Poland. Advancement hinged on the result of the Korea/Potugal match where S. Korea held on (barely) for a 1-0 win against 9 man Portgual (one red in the 27', one in 67'). And while US fans all remember the non-call on Frings in the QF, there was also a non-call on the US in the Mexico game. Still, Germany has beat us in 2002 and 2006, but Ghana is the real grudge match for the USA.
I think that Germany is the natural grudge match. Aside from Frings' hand ball, the US team has several German-American players on the roster, not to mention the Klinsmann factor and the previous world cup meeting.
If these are your arguments for a grudge match, you really do not know Germans.^^ *whispers (That's like, if someone would say "because they are US-Americans they tend to have a low team-spirit and pessimistic personality".)^^
You forgot the biggest grudge of all. Germany beat Portugal three times since 2006: WC2006 (3rd/4th place match), Euro 2008 (1/4 finals), and Euro 2012 (Group Stage).
It didn't completely tip the balance of power, Mexico was still seen as the best in the region after that, although now it was very close. In 2006, Mexico had the better World Cup, making up for the 2002 anomaly. Blackmouth committed a foul on the free kick in the Slovenia game, that's why it was nullified. Your team has not been screwed at all, it simply hasn't been good enough to do better than it has. If if if, might might might. Think of all the ifs and mights every team has every World Cup since there are always injuries and iffy calls every time. This applies to every team, but knowledgeable fans know it's a part of the game, so they can the ifs and mights. It seems only usa fans go on and on with fantasies about hypotheticals that never happened. Pretty strange. And the Czechs had a hand in the 06 elimination, along with Slovenia in 2010, denying 2 points.
Mainly because Mexico was seeded in 2006 and got a much easier group than the US. I'm pretty sure that if you switch the teams around in the draw, it's the US going to the knockout stages and Mexico going home. And 2002 notwithstanding, let's not kid ourselves about who the best team in CONCACAF is. Mexico wouldn't have even qualified for the World Cup this time around if it wasn't for the US...never mind the fact that Mexico hasn't scored a goal on US soil in WC qualifying in 17 years.
Yeah, I wasn't expecting the Mexico fans to bring their grudge against the US into this thread. The Dos-a-Cero and the grudge that Mexico fans have nurtured since is real. The players seem to get along fine with the USMNT players nowadays, but some of the fans almost live to hate. That's fine. It makes for a good time when well-meaning fans of the two teams enjoy games together. I think its clear that the US have established themselves as the region's elite. It wouldn't bother Mexico fans so much to say that if there wasn't a kernel of truth in it.