WC West Germany 1974 Others NTs generations around 1974 ENGLAND: Clemence, Neal, Hughes, Watson, Ball, Bell, Brooking, McDermott, Lee, Keegan YUGOSLAVIA: Maric, Curkovic, Stepanovic, Buljan, Katalinski, Oblak, Acimovic, Bajevic, Dzajic EAST GERMANY: Croy, Bransch, Dorner, Kreische, Hafner, Sparwasser, Streich ARGENTINA: Gatti, Cejas, Wolff, Piazza, Brindisi, Babington, Scotta, Doval, Ayala, Bianchi, Yazalde, Mas ITALY: Zoff, Cuccureddu, Benetti, Sala, Capello, Zaccarelli, Causio, Anastasi, Chinaglia, Bettega, Prati SWEDEN: Andersson, Bo Larsson, Torstensson, Edstrom, Roger Magnusson, Sandberg, Sjoberg .
Re: WC West Germany 1974 Brazil still had the aura of a great team (WC70 & Independence Cup) But, most agree that West Germany has the better side and better players at mid 70s. So the difference of 5 points, must be a error of system itself
WC Argentina 1978 Top-Ten NTs around 1978 These are the best ELO coefficients for NTs between 1977-79: BRAZIL = 2102 W.GERMANY = 2094 HOLLAND = 2067 ITALY = 2013 ARGENTINA = 2008 ENGLAND = 1993 SCOTLAND = 1950 POLAND = 1934 SOVIET UNION = 1930 SPAIN = 1921 Bonus: Perú was a top-10 material NT (few points lower) Biggest failure for WC --> England didn't qualify.
WC Argentina 1978 Top-4 BRAZIL World class: Luis Pereira, Junior, Dirceu, Cerezo, Falcao, Zico, Socrates International class: Leao, Nelinho, Edinho, Oscar, Marinho Ch., Clodoaldo, Paulo Cesar, Leivinha, Edu Formation: ---------------------- Leao Nelinho ----- L.Pereira ----- Edinho ----- Junior -------------------- T.Cerezo ---------- Falcao --------------------------- Zico --- Dirceu G ------------- R.Dinamite --------- Leivinha Subs: Valdir Peres; Oscar, Marinho Ch; Clodoaldo; Socrates; Reinaldo, Edu HOLLAND World class: Krol, Neeskens International class: van Beveren, Brandts, Haan, Peters, W.van der Kerkhof, Rep, R.van der Kerkhof, Geels, Tahamata Formation: ----------------------- Van Beveren Wijnstekers ---- Rijsbergen ---- Krol ---- Hovenkamp ------------------------ Haan ----------- Neeskens ---------------------- W.van der Kerkhof --- Rep ------------------------------ Tahamata ---------------------- Geels Subs: Schrijvers; Poortvliet, Brandts; Peters; A.Muhren; R.van der Kerkhof, Kist ARGENTINA World class: Fillol, Passarella, Ardiles, Alonso, Bochini, Houseman, Kempes International class: Cejas, Wolff, Tarantini, Gallego, Brindisi, Valdano, Bianchi, Bertoni Formation: ---------------------- Fillol Wolff ----- Galván ----- Passarella ----- Tarantini ------------------- Gallego ---------- Ardiles ----------------------- Alonso ----------------------------------- Kempes --- Houseman --------- Bianchi Subs: Cejas; Olguín, Trossero; Trobbiani; Bochini; Ayala, Bertoni WEST GERMANY World class: Maier, Kaltz, Stielike, Breitner, Bonhof, Magath, Rummenigge International class: Dietz, Hoeness, Flohe, Fischer Formation: -------------------- Maier Kaltz ----– B.Forster ----- Stielike ----- Briegel -------------------- Bonhof ----------- Breitner ------------------------- Magath --------------------------------- Rummenigge --- Abramczyk -------- Fischer Subs: Franke; Russmann, Dietz; Cullmann; Hoeness; Hrubresch, Kremers .
WC Argentina 1978 Others NTs generations around 1978 ENGLAND: Shilton, Clemence, Neal, Brooking, McDermott, Wilkins, Keegan, Francis SCOTLAND: McGrain, Hansen, Burns, Souness, Hartford, Dalglish, Jordan, Robertson SOVIET UNION: Lovchev, Chivadze, Gavrilov, Kipiani, Andreev, Blokhin, Shengelia POLAND: Tomaszewski, Szymanowski, Zmuda, Gorgon, Majewski, Lato, Szarmach ITALY: Gentile, Scirea, Tardelli, Antognoni, Conti, Causio, Altobelli, Bettega SPAIN: Camacho, Asensi, Zamora, Juanito, Cano, Quini, Santillana PERU: Quiroga, Díaz, Velásquez, Cueto, Cubillas, Muñante, Barbadillo, Oblitas.
Re: WC West Germany 1974 Why is Tostao included? Didn't he retire in 1973? After looking at those England and Italy players from 1974, it goes to show that teams with good players can still play bad.
Re: WC West Germany 1974 The reason is because i'm talking about Generations of players not necessarily is the same that teams who actually line-up in those eras. For the second part, i agree that there's have been many teams on history, that looks good on paper, but failed. (France at 2002 or Brazil 2006 are modern examples)
Re: WC West Germany 1974 Maybe the 1978 "team on paper" for England & Italy were better. I also must correct the Holland formation, stteping back to Willy van der Kerkhof in the same line with Neeskens, like 2 box-to-box mids. So, Holland didn't line-up a playmaker, like it really happens at WC´78. I think in that tournament, Rensenbrink (who belongs to previous generation), played a deeper role that a nominal LW.
Re: WC West Germany 1974 There's a few more England teams other than the 1974 side you could say that about.
Re: WC West Germany 1974 Fahrian played his last game for Germany in 1964. He played his last Bundesliga game in 1974 (he continued to play in the Germany second division for two more years after that). Maybe you're thinking of Franke?
Re: WC West Germany 1974 Thanks for your comment & info. At first, i was thinking in both, Fahrian & Franke, also in Wolter. All of three, belongs to same generation (+/-7 years difference in DOB) Fahrian, had the earliest shine at NT, he had 21 years old at WC'62 and for WC'74 had 33 years old (a good age for keepers). Finally, my impression is that Fahrian has the best prime of the three. (personal criteria to pick a player in this thread) BTW, the "X class" categories are for the better prime in each player career.
Re: WC West Germany 1974 Yes, I know you criteria - it's just that Fahrian played only one single season in the first division between 1967 and 1976 (when he retired) - 1973/74, a season in which his team was relegated too. Other than that, he played in the German second division at that time, plus as a player he had peaked in the early 60s. He fits under your criteria, but even in Germany very few people would include him among the best players of the 1970s generation probably.
Re: WC West Germany 1974 Fahrian was premature GK, same as Illgner or Casillas, who was decreasing his level with the years. He was the opposed to common GKs who reach their peak passed 30 years old. According Gregoriak thread, Fahrian, Franke & Wolter, reached "International class" as best. Fahrian had more recognition for his good performance at WC, but Franke had a more consistent career. Which one pick him? https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=936925
Re: WC Argentina 1978 I added Briegel as World Class player. And Russmann as International Class, and switched B.Forster at starting XI
Biggest ELO ratings for 1950s - 1970s: Around OG'48: ARGENTINA = 2068 ITALY = 2030 ENGLAND = 1995 SWEDEN = 1947 BRAZIL = 1947 Around WC'50: ARGENTINA = 2042 BRAZIL = 2027 ITALY = 2004 ENGLAND = 1997 SWEDEN = 1950 Around WC'54: HUNGARY = 2165 ARGENTINA = 2082 W.GERMANY = 2039 BRAZIL = 2020 URUGUAY = 1975 Around WC'58: BRAZIL = 2115 ARGENTINA = 2084 HUNGARY = 2041 ENGLAND = 1969 FRANCE = 1913 (I select France instead Uruguay & W.Germany with +/- 15 points above) Around WC'62: BRAZIL = 2153 SOVIET UNION= 2013 ARGENTINA = 1980 CZECHOSLOVAKIA = 1976 YUGOSLAVIA = 1961 Around WC'66: ENGLAND = 2041 W.GERMANY = 2017 SOVIET UNION= 1998 BRAZIL = 1979 PORTUGAL = 1961 (I replaced Argentina for Portugal +/- 25 points above) Around WC'70: BRAZIL = 2134 ENGLAND = 2039 W.GERMANY = 2026 ITALY = 2010 SOVIET UNION= 1965 Around WC'74: BRAZIL = 2104 W.GERMANY = 2099 HOLLAND = 2048 POLAND = 2046 ITALY = 1964 (I selected W.Germany as the Best side instead Brazil 5 points upper) (I also replaced England for Italy, +/- 10 points lower) Around WC'78: BRAZIL = 2102 W.GERMANY = 2094 HOLLAND = 2067 ITALY = 2013 ARGENTINA = 2008
Period: 1950's - 1970's Most times #1 NT for 50's-70s: BRAZIL 4 times ARGENTINA 2 times W.GERMANY 1 time ENGLAND 1 time HUNGARY 1 time
Resume: 1950's - 1970's Most times Top-5 NT for 50's-70s: BRAZIL - 9 times ARGENTINA - 6 times W.GERMANY - 5 times ITALY - 5 times ENGLAND - 5 times SOVIET UNION - 3 times HUNGARY - 2 times HOLLAND - 2 times SWEDEN - 2 times URUGUAY - 1 time FRANCE - 1 time CZECHOSLOVAKIA - 1 time YUGOSLAVIA - 1 time PORTUGAL - 1 time POLAND - 1 time
Resume: 1950's - 1970's Top-10 ELO average for 50s-70s period: BRAZIL - 2065 ARGENTINA - 1998 ENGLAND - 1987 W.GERMANY - 1969 HUNGARY - 1952 ITALY - 1949 SPAIN - 1870 SWEDEN - 1862 URUGUAY - 1849 SOVIET UNION - 1804 PS: I named Uruguay & Soviet Union instead Scotland & Yugoslavia Uruguay had 5 point lower & USSR 50 points lower (at early 50s had low rating and no competition)
Resume: 1950's - 1970's Biggest NT's peaks for 50s - 70s BRAZIL (ELO 2027): Maracanazo's generation. (ELO 2165): World champion in 1958 (ELO 2153): World champion in 1962 (ELO 2134): World champion in 1970 ARGENTINA (ELO 2068): South American champion from 1947. Golden Generation (ELO 2084): South American champion from 1957. "Los Carasucias" HUNGARY (ELO 2165): The Magycal Magyars ENGLAND (ELO 1997): Post-war generation (ELO 2041): World champion in 1966. ITALY (ELO 2030): Il Grande Torino generation. (ELO 2010): World Cup 1970 runner-up W.GERMANY (ELO 2039): World champion in 1954. (ELO 2099): World champion in 1974. HOLLAND (ELO 2048): The Clockwork Orange.
Re: Resume: 1950's - 1970's Where are you getting the ratings from? According to www.eloratings.net, Hungary's highest rating was 2166 and Brazil's was 2153.
Re: Resume: 1950's - 1970's It was a typo BRAZIL - Best ELO around WC'58 (+/- 1 year) (ELO 2115) at May.13.1959 The bigger ELO for '62 generation was due their 2 unbeaten continued records in the period 1957-63 http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/unbeaten.html#coununb With this correction, the better peak is for the Magycal Magyars. Also, the biggest in history of the game.
Resume: 1908-1938 Average ELO for Top-10: Pre-War era Around OG´08: 1794.6 Around OG´12: 1835.8 Around OG´20: 1866.1 Around OG´24: 1845.8 Around OG´28: 1888 Around WC´30: 1892.2 Around WC´34: 1914.7 Around WC´38: 1895 The system itself had as a result a growing tendency. But also, show developing & spread for football. The most competitive era according this, were mid 30s. When most european sides had in their primes, also tournaments like Mitropa or Dr. Gero Cup.
Resume: 1948-1978 Average ELO for Top-10 Around OG´48: 1925.8 Around WC´50: 1940 Around WC´54: 1989.2 Around WC´58: 1965.3 Around WC´62: 1967.7 Around WC´66: 1960.1 Around WC´70: 1964.6 Around WC´74: 1982.9 Around WC´78: 2001.2 At mid 50s there was a notably increase of the tendence, that don't recover until two decades after. So i'd said that mid 50's was the most competitive period for this era. At 60s, the average was the same for all decade, i think related to deffensive football, who was predominant in most countries (ie Italy, Argentina, etc.) At late 70s, world football was ready to increase the participants at World Cup.
Wow. these are some very deep football knowledge, good thread, and i am still looking the players over internet, i am not going to lie, but i think almost all the players you mentioned, i never heard of except 10-20 players
Thanks for your nice comments. In fact, i thought make each "Generation" with players with +/- 4 age of difference between them. But, there would be more "unknow" players on these lists. Also the ocasional rating for NTs in each era, the other reason i created this thread is for the players that i missed them for top sides.