Gone before they got here, 2017 edition

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by Sandon Mibut, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    So signing day is almost upon us but before that's happened, we've already had several 2017 commits to top programs sign pro deals the past few days.

    Last week, Devin Vega, who had verballed to Clemson, signed with his hometown San Antonio FC.

    Then Friday, UNC-commit Djordie Mihailovic signed a homegrown deal with the Chicago Fire.

    And today, TDS' Travis Clark is reporting that UVa-commit Patrick Oknkwo will sign a HG deal with the expansion Atlanta United.


    And there's a long time between now and camps starting in August so expect more would-be incoming freshman to turn pro before they matriculate.
     
    OverseasView repped this.
  2. ratmalph

    ratmalph Member

    Oct 26, 2016
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    There's also Wake Forest commit Matthew Real, who signed recently with Bethlehem Steel
     
  3. OverseasView

    OverseasView Member+

    Olympique Lyonnais
    France
    Feb 3, 2013
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    They demonstrate an ability to compress time...:confused:

    We are all in a time warp, these kids are making our old life shorter....:mad:
     
  4. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    I'd have thought he'd sign with Salt Lake. There name was all over that kid.
     
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  5. Libric

    Libric Member

    Oct 14, 2011
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    No chance Okonkwo was going to be a qualifier for UVA. Lucky for him Atlanta is going to sign him, they've been going back and forth on it for awhile now.
     
  6. bhoys

    bhoys Member+

    Aug 21, 2011
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    I recently attended a college hockey game and that got me wondering about a couple of things .... like:

    - how is that college hockey players can still be already drafted and signed by pro teams?

    - And do college hockey players, especially those already signed by the pro teams, and their teams have rules about how many hours they can practice a week?

    - Also, could something like this work for college and pro soccer?

    Just wondering ...
     
    Fish On repped this.
  7. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Drafted and signed are two different things. I don't think they can sign but I'll leave the hockey stuff to @espola
     
  8. OverseasView

    OverseasView Member+

    Olympique Lyonnais
    France
    Feb 3, 2013
    Club:
    Olympique Lyonnais
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Sandon Mibut repped this.
  9. big spaniel

    big spaniel Member

    Nov 18, 1999
    Arlington, Virginia
    Hockey players can be drafted as amateurs and still play college hockey, but they can't sign without losing their NCAA eligibility. College hockey players also have the option of playing major junior hockey in Canada (Ontario, Quebec and Western Hockey Leagues) but once they do they are considered professionals and are no longer amateurs.

    When the NCAA season ends, you will see college hockey players who have been drafted sign with NHL clubs and usually go to the minors, although some make the senior club. Undrafted players can sign as free agents with any club.

    The only rules hockey players have about practice time are NCAA rules.

    Also, there is no option for off-season play for college hockey players, unlike soccer players, who can play in the PDL, or baseball players, who can play in summer collegiate baseball leagues.

    I don't see any reason why college soccer players couldn't be drafted by pro clubs, but the clubs would have to wait on them to either graduate or sign, and I'm not sure that many players are worth the wait. The one criticism of U.S. college soccer is that the season is too short and doesn't allow the four-year college player to develop. 18-21 year old players in other countries get much more serious time on the field and develop further that U.S. collegians. Staying in college might be seen as a handicap.
     
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  10. collegesoccer

    collegesoccer Member+

    Apr 11, 2005
    Hard to develop playing three or four years of college ...

     
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  11. WolverineFutbol

    Aug 1, 2012
    Clint Dempsey agrees.:)
     
    bhoys repped this.
  12. Chaik

    Chaik Member

    Oct 18, 2001
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Hockey players pretty much have to decide at 15/16 years old if they are going to play college hockey or play Canadian Major Junior. The three major junior leagues (Quebec, Ontario, and Western) draft 16 year olds. You are only eligible for one of the leagues based on geography (Quebec is players from the Canadian Maritimes, Quebec, and New England for example). Usually the player's "advisor" (as agents are forbidden by the NCAA) has made clear to the drafting teams 1.) if the player is going to play major junior or go to the NCAA and 2.) which teams the player is willing to be drafted by.

    If you play even one minute of a major junior game, you are permanently barred from playing NCAA hockey. You will see a lot of kids commit to an NCAA school at age 14/15. Sometimes the players have no intention of playing for that school- my alma mater was notorious for getting commitments from young players who just wanted to be able to say to unappealing QMJHL teams that "if you draft me, I am going to college." That usually precipitates the player falling in the draft to a better or more geographically convenient team, or a trade. Or the bad team will call their bluff, knowing that kid isn't college material. Sometimes it's a real commitment, but either way it is a mess.

    It's generally regarded that the Canadian route is quicker to the NHL. You can be drafted at 18 having played one or two seasons of major junior. If you are going the NCAA route, you are generally drafted at 18 prior to your freshman year, and it is too big a leap to go from lesser junior leagues or prep schools straight to the NHL. So you have to at least play one year in college.

    The NHL team that drafts you keeps your rights through the end of your junior year of college. So, if Johnny is drafted before his freshman year by the Red Wings, they have to sign him after his junior year or they lose his rights and he will be a free agent after his senior year. There is also an age cap on the draft- if you turn 21 during the year of the draft, you can sign as a free agent rather than being drafted. So, you see a lot of kids leave college after their junior year. You also see a fair number of kids enter college at age 20 or 21 because they were playing in a non-major junior league like the US Hockey League in the midwest.

    I don't think that there would be a big change in the number of kids playing college soccer as opposed to going pro if soccer shifted to that model. I'd equate the NHL draft rights and MLS homegrown deals. The top 10-15% of players aren't going to end up in college in either scenario, be it because they are a hockey player who went to Quebec for two years then to the NHL, or a soccer player who signs an MLS/overseas deal before college. Everyone else will play in college, and about 20% of them (soccer and hockey) will know what team they will eventually sign with.
     
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  13. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
  14. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    So this became official this weekend as Okonkwo signed a homegrown deal with Atlanta United.

    But it didn't stop there. Atlanta United also signed US U20 player Lagos Kunga, who had signed with Furman, to a homegrown deal.

    https://www.atlutd.com/post/2017/06...d-academy-players-sign-professional-contracts

    The bigger MLS and USL get (and I suppose NASL, too) the more players college soccer is going to lose, either before these kids ever matriculate or, for the ones that, do, will lose more early.

    Sadly, college soccer has done nothing to counter to this. Sure, they've talked about doing stuff, and it's true that getting stuff done is much easier said than done with NCAA politics and all, but the reality is that since MLS' inception and the pro game has plucked hundreds, if not thousands, of players from college soccer and college soccer has done nothing in response.
     
  15. collegesoccer

    collegesoccer Member+

    Apr 11, 2005
    Soccer will be similar to baseball in that 1/2 stay, 1/2 go and the ones who become the best American players are a mixture of both because you can't always predict at 18 who the best 25 year old will be... Obviously exceptions for Christian Pulisic, et. al.... but you are right if the NCAA ever takes its gloves off in regards to college soccer and the season, then you are looking at one of the top development infrastructures in terms of financing and facilities in the world.
     
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  16. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Cue Billy Joel (sort of):

    Say good bye to (Ak-ron), say good bye, my baby.

    https://www.sportingkc.com/post/201...roduct-wan-kuzain-wan-kamal-full-usl-contract

    And with that Akron loses a talented would-be player and college soccer loses arguably the best name in the sport's history in Wan Kuzain Wan Kamal.

    PS - MLS USL are proving to be a very grave threat to college soccer, at least in terms of taking away the top talent. But you already knew that.
     
  17. catfish9

    catfish9 Member+

    Jul 14, 2011
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So the trend in college soccer the last few years is to go out and (almost exclusively) recruit from MLS academies and more specifically target kids who have seen YNT time. With the rise in many of those players now choosing to sign homegrown deals and never stepping foot on campus coupled with the next group who are 1 or 2 and done, will D1 college coaches (especially low profile schools) start looking more outside DA for talent? Has to be frustrating to put together a good class only to lose 1 or maybe 2 guys before they ever enroll. One good side affect is it opens up the already limited college scholarships to potentially more kids. Unfortunately for US kids, college coaches are using many of those on foreign players - This is especially true at NAIA schools.
     
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  18. WolverineFutbol

    Aug 1, 2012
    Catfish, good observations! The D1 programs that are fully funded and have support from the athletic department for recruiting will, I think, continue to look for high level recruits outside of the Development Academy.

    Michigan's 2015 class included three gems who never played in the academy: Robbie Mertz (Pennsylvania Gatorade POY), Francis Atuahene (NSCAA All American) and Ivo Cerda (from Chile's Club Catolica). I think we'll continue to see programs pursuing these types of players, not only for their talent but also because they often arrive humble. Sometimes it's better to get a talented player who hasn't been told by national team coaches and MLS teams that he's the next Landon Donovan.
     
  19. Fish On

    Fish On Member

    Oct 22, 2016
    Club:
    AC Mantova
    NCAA Hockey and Downhill skiing are the only sports that allow athletes to pursue their sport professionally "Juniors" up to the age of 21. At that time if they have not signed a professional contract they can enter college (look at the ages of most NCAA Hockey players as freshmen (21) & when they graduate (24-25). Rest of NCAA sports are allowed a 1 year gap/off, before their eligibility clock starts. Can see MLS academies approaching the NCAA with the same approach for soccer or AAU basketball, junior football league, oh oh...
     
  20. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    ..
    There are a couple of differences. Baseball pays DP type signing bonuses to HS kids and Messi type money to US kids that become top professionals. Very few soccer players in the world make what typical MLB starters do. It will be a long time before money becomes similar, if ever so the monetary incentive is not even close. You don't see guys walk out of pro contracts like Joe Sofia or Leo Stolz because they could make a lot more money outside the sport in baseball. So the lure to stay in college is a lot stronger. On the other side of the coin there are a lot of middle class soccer playing kids around the world like Stolz that increasingly see the US college system as a nice way of getting an education while still keeping your dream of playing professional soccer alive. So while more of the best US kids will leave, they are being replaced by increasingly stronger foreign players.
    The facilities are top notch as are many of the strength and fitness coaches. However the soccer coaching is substandard, even by US standards and often very poor by world standards. You typically have a semi-pro level players from an era where the us was a soccer backwater with no high level professional experience or training. While there are certainly some good college coaches, the large majority of good ones have already been picked off by the pros.
     
  21. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Nor will they. While some schools without football programs like UCSB, Creighton or Utah Valley see soccer as a potential fall tent pole sport their campus, the people that make the huge money off sports do not. Soccer is probably the most competitive sports market in the world and the odds of college soccer gaining eyeballs beyond the current student body and the money that comes with them is going to be extremely difficult at best. So while soccer has been slowly growing over the last decade it take a change of infection for things to change. This will happen when conferences like the SEC start kicking tires about adding men's soccer programs.
     
  22. MonagHusker

    MonagHusker Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Feb 25, 2016
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What do Colleges do at filling in the positions vacated by these commitments? I really only understand the football (American) side of things. Top level has 85 scholarships though, so having a committed player fail to make your team is a pain, but hardly the end of the world with all this scholarship (not to mention walk-ons) players in the roster. Losing a player in soccer that is signing a pro contract, with limited scholarships, seems like a bigger impact.
     
  23. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    I figured there would be more noise in this thread -- admittedly, I've seen little myself so far after checking a couple rosters with high-profile players I thought might not show up at school.
     

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