Global Nations League

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by shizzle787, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. shizzle787

    shizzle787 Member

    Apr 27, 2015
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    United States
    AlbertCamus repped this.
  2. jagum

    jagum Member

    Jun 20, 2007
    Panama City, Panama
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Country:
    Venezuela
    I prefer this " Global Nations League " than a diluted World Cup of 48 nations divided in groups of 3 !!
    32 was the perfect number.

    Sometimes I miss "Sepp" Blatter...
     
  3. nooshcat

    nooshcat Member

    Jan 3, 2017
    I like this idea but NT managers would be less likely to give young players a shot to prove themselves in these games.
     
  4. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    Bad managers probably would. But they will eventually get caught out with too many ageing players.

    J
     
  5. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    Look, on the face of it it's a great idea - like the Nations League is.

    BUT

    It still betrays a Euro-centric focus. The idea (at least in part) is to get teams of equal sorts of levels to play each other in "meaningful" matches more often. And in the case of big UEFA teams, that is something that people probably want to see - after all, since 2000 Germany has played Spain twice in meaningful matches. France has played Italy 5 times between 2000 and 2008 - but not since, England v Portugal just 3 times - but not since 2006.

    But, in other confederations these are not the matches we need to see more of - Australia has played Japan 11 times (+1 or 2 "sort of tournaments") and Australia only joined Asia in 2006. South Korea v Iran - 12 times (+ 1 in the Asian Games).
    USA v Mexico - 15 times, Brazil v Argentina - 11 times (+4 SUper-classicos).

    Africa is not so bad - Egypt played Senegal 7 times since 2000, but I think that was a lucky guess by me - although Egypt v Ghana 5 times - but Tunisia v Algeria only twice.

    Note, I'm trying to think of possible "top league" teams that might end up in the same groups here.

    That is the achilles heel in the plan as far as I see - outside of Europe it sort of just replicates what we already see.

    J

    [All figures from 11v11 and refer to matches since 2000]
     
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  6. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    Given that Asia ends WCQs with two groups, CONCACAF ends with one group, and Africa ends with five groups, it shouldn't be a surprise for Africa to have fewer games between top teams.
     
  7. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member

    Apr 6, 2006
    what they should do is a true world league across continents initially based on FIFA rankings. So if we were to use current rankings (as ridiculous as they are) we would see leagues like (16 teams each divided into the 4 groups based on ranking and draws)

    frankly a strictly UEfa or any other league would just be more redundant games. This way we could actually see who the best teams in the world are, and not just assume they are all in UEFA, or based on some silly FIFA rankings.

    A League

    Germany, Brazil, Portugal, Argentina, Belgium, Poland, France, Spain, Chile, Peru, Switzerland, England, Colombia, Wales, Italy, Mexico

    B League

    Uruguay, Croatia, Denmark, Holland, Iceland, Costa Rica, N. Ireland, Slovakia, Sweden, Ireland, USA , Tunisia, Scotland, Egypt, Ukraine, Senegal

    C League

    Turkey, Iran, DR Congo, Paraguay, Bulgaria, Serbia, Austria, Bosnia, Nigeria, Cameroon, Australia, Japan, Romania, Czech Rep, Greece, Morocco,

    So the groups would look something like this, and we would have bottom teams of each group relegated and the top 4 of the other leagues groups promoted

    A League

    Group 1 Germany, Spain, Chile, Mexico
    Group 2 Brazil, France, Peru, Italy
    Group 3 Portugal, Poland, Switzerland, Wales
    Group 4 Argentina, Belgium, England, Colombia

    B League

    Group 1 Uruguay, Slovakia, Sweden, Senegal
    Group 2 Croatia, N Ireland, Ireland, Ukraine
    Group 3 Denmark, Costa Rica, USA, Egypt
    Group 4 Holland, Iceland, Tunisia, Scotland

    C League

    Group 1 Turkey, Bosnia, Nigeria, Morocco
    Group 2 Iran, Austria, Cameroon, Greece
    Group 3 DR Congo, Serbia, Australia, Czech Rep.
    Group 4 Paraguay, Bulgaria, Japan, Romania,

    Of Course you would have leagues going all the way down the rankings.

    Much more interesting that what they propose and much more interesting than a UEFA nations league.

    And after time we would get a much more accurate reflection of true world rankings than the FIFA rankings and even the one off World cup.
     
  8. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Its a lot of travel.
     
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  9. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    Not to mention the money (although you probably implied it).

    Just to note that one of the principles of the Nations League is that the top leagues have 3 teams, not 4, so they are still able to schedule "meaningless" friendlies as well (so managers can play new players as well) - lower leagues have 4 teams because it is not as vital for them.

    The fact that FIFA is behind this (as noted in the other thread) is not surprising - they want to make non-WC international football as relevant as possible as it shores up their position relative to the clubs.

    Overall I think this is a great idea on paper - but the issues around the ability to pay need to be addressed. Possibly the way around this is to have League A only as international and all the others as confederation based - similar to the Davis Cup in tennis. You would need to have a sensible pro/rel system but I think that could be managed well - you might end up with two "final" tournaments - the World Finals and the Pro/Rel tournament, or Pro/Rel would be home/away play-offs in the week before (to avoid overshadowing the main finals).

    That would mean the World League would have to be either 4 groups of 4 (I know I said the principle was 3 but 4 groups of 3 is a bit thin and 4 works better in this discussion) or maybe 8 groups of 3. Either way, you get 8 teams in the knock-out World League Final (either 8 groups winners drawn randomly, or group runners-up drawn against another group winner).

    Then you have either 4 last place teams playing against the winners of UEFA/CAF/AFC/CONCACAF groups - [or 8 last place teams playing a knock-out first and then doing that] - so maybe OFC needs to play through the AFC system - it's mainly NZ that needs a route through.

    Confed groups would be like the nations league with Pro/Rel pretty straight forward. Some of the lower levels would play their tournaments at a centralised location - but you could imagine that with sensible planning and a decent sponsor, you could accommodate every country in the world.

    J
     
  10. vancity eagle

    vancity eagle Member

    Apr 6, 2006
    I was thinking that may be a problem but frankly in the top 2 leagues most of the travel would be in between European countries.

    I thought about the possiblity of South American and AFrican nations adopting a foreign country for the sake of this world league to cut travel time and costs, as well as use better facilities.

    For example Nigeria could play home matches in England where there is a significant NIgerian diaspora. Countries like Senegal and CIV could play in France, and I was thinking the South AMerican nations could play in Spain , while Brazil plays in Portugal. Just a thought, but I think it could work, you could even have Brazil kept out of a Portugal group to not mess up Brazil "home" games.
     
  11. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    With 16 or 24 teams there could be teams excluded who feel like they're good for the rest of their confederation. Costa Rica was 28th in the FIFA Rankings before World Cup 2014 and they made the Quarterfinals.

    That could make teams and their fans feel like their country was eliminated but would have done better if they could have played their home games at home.
     
  12. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    ???

    J
     
  13. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    No decisions have been made and we can only speculate but this proposal seems the most tangible (from AP and Reuters)

    https://apnews.com/d2e221fec9854489...lFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP_Sports
    https://apnews.com/8ccc78b4e34f47b2...-league-can-revive-stale-international-soccer
    https://af.reuters.com/article/sportsNews/idAFKBN1D50CO-OZASP

    - teams allocated to 7 divisions according to their FIFA ranking
    - confederations run their own qualifying groups with promotion and relegation every two years (group stage is intraconfed)
    - group winners advance to Final 8 interconfed tournaments in each of the seven divisions played in June of every odd-numbered year
    - the top division's Final 8 include 3 UEFA teams, 2 from Conmebol, plus 1 each from CAF, AFC, and Concacaf
    - no mention of how the other 6 leagues would look except that OFC's top team would be included in the 4th tier

    "Biggest-ever soccer competition for 223 teams" / "7 divisions" => possibly top tier, "League A", are +/- the top 32 ranked NTs (AFC don't have any but there are exceptions to every rule), the next 32 in "League B", etc. (depending on the division confeds can have more teams)

    "League A", the top tier, would have a Final 8 main event from e.g. 5-13 June 2021 (or 2 years later, a winter WC also isn't helpful for scheduling) to be hosted by one of the finalists (cfr. UNL: "Host country of all Finals matches (2x semi-finals, third-place match and final) will be appointed by UEFA in December 2018 from among the finalist teams"). Maybe the final draw won't be seeded like the UNL but then again it could and I at least expect geographic separation, e.g.:

    Germany (hosts)
    Nigeria

    Brazil
    France

    Argentina
    Iran

    Spain
    Mexico


    To decide who qualifies from UEFA to the "League A" Final 8 main event you could alter the 2018/19 UNL a little for the 2020/21 edition. Instead of 4 groups of 3 teams (that still have 2 dates for friendlies), 3 groups of 4 teams with the 3 group winners going to the Final 8. If League A shrinks to 9 teams instead of the current 12 teams you could go with 3 groups of 3 teams. Conmebol could have 2 groups of 3 teams (the other 4 teams compete for Final 8 events in lower divisions) or maybe split the WC2022 Qs in 2 groups. Concacaf are planning to copy the UNL, maybe AFC and CAF too? Kiwis have already qualified for the GNL's 4th division Final 8 (they're No.122 on the Fifa ranking, I'm guessing that division will include teams ranked 100-130 or thereabouts).
     
  14. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    You proposed having 16 or 24 teams playing teams in other confederations and teams below that only playing in their confederation, so I named Costa Rica doing well in the World Cup to show that teams below 24th in the FIFA Rankings can do well against top teams in other confederations.

    The two UEFA Semifinal losers could play a third place game to see who makes the top world league. That wouldn't require changing how many UEFA groups there are.
     
  15. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    You mean the semifinalists from the UNL? AFAIK after the UNL 2018/19 edition it wouldn't be an exclusively European tournament any longer and the global NL would take place every 2 years (odd-numbered years). If the 2020/21 edition is the inaugural edition of the "GNL" then we'd just have the group phase Sep-Nov 2020, and instead of a European Final 4 we'd get a global Final 8 in June 2021.

    To narrow it down from 32 NTs to a Final 8, qualifying in groups of 4 teams with only the group leader advancing would do the trick. For UEFA's League A you could keep it at 12 teams that compete for three Final 8 spots (UEFA's allocation already getting slashed compared to UNL 2018/19 while the final event doubles in size). 3 groups of 4 teams, playing home and away during the 6 MDs (Sep-Nov) and the 3 group winners advance to the Final 8. That's quite straightforward.

    That would also mean 8 Conmebol NTs though and there would only be 2 left for lower divisions. Would be better to have 2 groups of 3 teams competing for the two "League A" spots and a 3rd group with the remaining 4 teams competing for a lower division.
     
  16. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    I disagree that it's more interesting than intra confederations leagues. In any case, you can have both a global NL and a UEFA nations league. Why settle?
     
  17. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    For me, it makes more sense to alternate just like we do with EUROs and WCs, i.e. the UNL ahead of EUROs and the global NL ahead of WCs. Yet it sounds like the global NL will be held every 2 years.
     
  18. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    I'm no lawyer, but seems like UEFA would have a good case to sue FIFA if the latter forces UEFA NTs to partake in a global league every two years, effectively making it imposible to implement the UEFA NL that has been planned for years.
     
  19. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    It's UEFA that's expanding the UNL ... UEFA-led plan for global soccer competition every 2 years

    If unseeded, like the UNL Final 4, that global Final 8 could be terribly unbalanced. E.g. Brazil, France, Spain and Argentina have to battle it out to reach the final while in the other half Germany luck out and only have to deal with Nigeria, Mexico and Iran.
     
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  20. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Presumably the 2 COMNEBOL teams would be kept apart in the draw which should even out the possible brackets, in theory.
     
  21. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    I'm not sure what this is meant to mean - there are teams in Nations League B level that would believe themselves better than teams in League A (Wales might think they're better than Netherlands given the last Euros). My point was that global divisions all the way down won't work due to costs - a one-off match between Montserrat and Bhutan might be good for a laugh - but a league of Montserrat, Bhutan, Tuvalu and Djibouti isn't going to do much other than burn through cash.

    J
     
  22. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    I like a draw to be as random as possible, don't mind seeding to get more balanced groups and the geographic separation rule is more or less OK. Just seed the top 4, like they do in European play-offs, and keep geographic separation.
     
  23. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    There are a lot of details to be ironed-out I guess, but it wouldn't be too difficult to avoid the problem you allude to. For e.g. the pools in the tournament could be regionally-based until you get down to the final 8/16/32 teams. So the only teams doing any global-wide travel would be the ones representing the top/rich nations.
     
  24. Skandal!!!

    Skandal!!! Member

    Legia Warszawa
    Poland
    Apr 26, 2017
    If we were to cancel WC and EC and CA, then yes, that would be a great idea. Just have a league like suggested above, and games instead of qualifiers and actual tournaments. Interesting, how much money would this generate from financial side, would it be worth it for UEFA to change like this?

    We could also add some "cup" competition to it, with home and away tie, and random draws.
     
  25. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Country:
    United States
    I think it's a good idea in theory, but how will a region like OFC be able to move up from the 4th tier. I get how the promotion relegation works in the group stage at the regional level, but how will promotion or relegation be awarded at the playoff level?

    Another question, will the group A main event allocation of teams from regions ever change? For example how could OFC ever work their way up to this main event? Or how do they move from the 4th tier to the 3rd?
     

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