Glimpse of the Future - Academy, U-18, U-21 & Loans News [R]

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Cevno, Jul 19, 2014.

  1. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    Isnt that published by the club?


    Seems pretty stupid to dump on your own players, especially one that has frequently worn the captains armband.


    Its one thing if fans do it.
     
  2. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's the Andy Mitten mag, so I don't believe it's officially affiliated to the club.
     
  3. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    J'can repped this.
  4. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Watching the U23s game today, if Chong does end up signing a new contract with us, he needs to be promptly sent out on loan as soon as possible. He was terrific today in United's 4-1 win vs Reading.
    There are valid questions as to his readiness for the first team at United at this time, but there is clearly something there. And would not want to discard him too quickly simply because he might be slow to make the transition from youth to senior football.
    In the end, he might not make it but we can't know for sure just yet (not with a player like him). All this of course is contingent on him signing a new contract, which still remains to be seen at this time.

    With no Garner or Levitt playing, Puigmal and Traore have stepped up well to fill the void left by their absence. Gomes, Mellor did not make the squad for today either (perhaps with an eye towards the Colchester game?)
     
  5. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Happy for Chong to go on loan. I wouldn't give up on him regardless because he's a left footed winger on low wages w/ potential. No point in not seeing if he pans out.

    Playing devil's advocate here...

    what reason do we have to give in to Gomes demands for wages/pt if Ramazani is at the club? Is Gomes demonstrably > than Ramazani?
     
  7. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    Ramazani and Gomes are very different types of players - even besides the positions they look to play, Gomes creates moves whereas Ramazani ends them.

    For Gomes the question is more, why shouldn't we just go out and get a more established, mobile and motivated 10? Even if they're 27+, we have young talent coming through in so many other areas (plus Mejbri at 16 who is only a couple of years away). We can wait.
     
  8. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. Sofabloke

    Sofabloke Member+

    Dec 24, 2003
    Mu
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    If the club believe he is leaving, then is the right call to focus now on others given he can officially sign with some other clubs in a few weeks.

    However, given Lingard, AP and Mata form he should have been given more minutes over the last few months. Though also true to an extent that he didn't do much what the ones he did have which didn't help his cause.

    Still feels he wasn't quite given a proper go in the short window of time available.
     
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  10. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    Never going to be easy to make it as a no 10.

    But this whole "too small" thing is bogus
     
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  11. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In hindsight, the mistake was not to send him out on loan this season (even more so than Chong). I definitely believed he had proved himself ready for senior football (arguably since last season imo), even if the Prem was probably too soon for him this season.
    A year away in La Liga for instance with an opportunity to play regularly would have done him a world of good (in terms of his own confidence and readiness to significantly contribute for United, probably as soon as the 20-21 season).
    As stated with Chong, just because youth players can't immediately and seamlessly transition into the first team doesn't mean they can't make it at some point down the line. Some players just take more time. Don't buy the size argument made against him either. He may be on the small side but he's tougher than he looks: he's capable of taking punishment and just keep it moving.
    Just disappointing in the end if he ends up leaving: with a little more foresight and patience, things might have turned out very differently. Let's hope this is a lesson learned for other young players coming up...
     
  12. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Exactly! This is on Butt and Ed and highlights why a DoF is needed. Young players need playtime to improve. We saw potential in Axel sent him on loan and we have been rewarded. Yes Axel was probably ready last season but the loan spell dispelled the idea of probably and made it dead cert.
     
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  13. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    If they're on their last year you don't generally want them thriving somewhere else, do you? I can't imagine that happens often. If we'd sent a young Pogba to Juve, or even to some midtable PL side, do you think he'd have declared he wants to stay at Utd?
     
  14. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    And it makes better sense for them to rot on our bench. I'm fine with them driving elsewhere because then it would at least justify spending more money to keep them
     
  15. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We'll have to see what the squad looks like by the end of next summer, but it might be impossible to imagine 5 players going out on loan, as far as I'm concerned.
    Laird, Levitt, Garner, Galbraith and Bernard, at minimum, are all possibilities. They're all beyond playing at youth level: if they can be assured reasonable playing time with the first team, then by all means we should keep them around. If not, send them somewhere where they have a chance to play on a regular basis to further their development, by facing more mature oppo.
    Butt gets a pass for this season, since it's his first one in his new one, but those are the things, in conjunction with the first team staff, they need to figure out, in order to map out potentially a clear path for our most talented youth players.
     
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  16. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    These are the kinds of things a director of football with a unified vision from top to bottom in conjunction with the youth director can get right.
     
  17. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A DoF certainly would help with that but at the same time, it doesn't mean that it can't be done efficiently in the current setup. This is literally what Butt is there for in his new role of Head of first team development: he's there to improve and oversee the transition of academy players into the first team.
    Working closely with the coaching staff (whoever it is), that is something that hopefully we'll start seeing progress in short order, even if a DoF still hasn't been appointed.
     
  18. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Two words, Edward Woodard
     
  19. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As far as we know, Woodward does not have any involvement when it comes to the youth system. I think it can be confidently argued that he doesn't decide what happens with Academy players, who goes out on loan or who gets promoted to the first team.
    Woodward has more than enough blame to go his way, I just don't see what influence he has on the Academy (which oddly enough has been one of the few bright lights at the club recently for the most part). Butt has clearly been the one in charge of that department, first as the Head of the Academy, a job he's done pretty well in: he's the one who retooled it, hired the coaches, is responsible to bring the players in etc...
    And now he's just been given a new position and responsabilities and he needs to be given time to make his mark and hopefully it will be a positive one, if his previous work is anything to go by...
     
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  20. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Ramazani was very much the dribbler/creator on the wing last year. Gomes is a little more weighted towards creativity, but the point I was making is that there's a pipeline of talent. Gomes is talented, but if he doesn't want to wait his turn, there's the door.
     
    jeff070 repped this.
  21. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    he was supposed to be the gem of the academy. or at least one of them but it looks to be fizzling out.

    you'd think he'd bide his time at his age especially if Pogba is expected to leave. we'll see if the rumours are true in short order though
     
  22. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    That right there is why I'm not sold on him. I can see why Pogba left when he did. We were playing Rafa and Park in midfield ahead of him. Gomes though would be blind to miss the opportunities that his colleagues have earned.
     
  23. Naboomagnoli

    Naboomagnoli Member+

    May 31, 2007
    I'd say Ramazani gives Chong little reason to try and hardball us, rather than Gomes - Gomes is much more creative and involved in buildup whereas Ramazani is a dribbler who creates for himself above all else.

    Agreed on the pipeline though. Young talent coming through elsewhere means more money saved to replace the odd contract rebel.
     
    johno repped this.
  24. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
    You continue to overrate Pogba's impact at reserve level. Pogba did well and scored worldies, but from the CM position he did not dominate the reserves. While i didnt like the Park Rafa thing, Pogba did not bide his time. That happened in February and he was gone before June.

    Please leave your Pogba comparison out because its not a good one. And also you're extremely biased wrt Pogba, back then and now.
     
    Chaz Striker repped this.
  25. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    You can't say I was biased wrt Pogba when he was in the youth team when I said he would be a world beater and he became a world beater. That's not bias, that's foresight. I suppose you can say that, you'd just be wrong... nothing new for you I suppose. The point of Park/Rafa was that we had holes in midfield and he should have, based on his qualities, been given a chance to blood himself. He should have been in every other squad and he should have been getting 15 minutes or 20 minutes here and there. Anything else was malpractice. SAF was a genius, but he ********ed that up... badly. That's not hindsight either. That was a ********up of tremendous proportions.
     

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