German Youth Discussion Thread Vol. IV

Discussion in 'Germany: National Teams' started by MatthausSammer, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #4776 Ger90, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
    there is also Niederlechner both him and Schieber were hit hard by injuries. But yeah that's a very very poor stretch for strikers, more than half a decades's worth of them. 6 years with only 6 relevant strikers, which averages 1 per age group.

    it's actually why striker is the one position from the XI which I'm not keen on losing duals/triples to other countries. Very hard to predict the path and most of our strikers pretty much bust. We are already seeing 99-02 strikers deciding for other countries too.
     
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  2. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Also sad that within the small handful of strikers that made it, only Uth has been recently called up to be among NT consideration. Ginczek has had an injury prone career but has been consistent lately. Füllkrug is out for the season. While I don't expect to see Volland in the NT picture
     
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  3. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    and Uth was called up based on his performances from last season not this one. And just as he started to perform for Schalke he gets injured, German players are so injury prone....

    The following 6 years, 95-00 seems a ton better than the previous 6 year period. Although you still get your injury prone guys like Platte, Seydel and Kleindienst. And I feel like Daferner given he's soon to be 21 needs higher level experience.
     
  4. Karl-Heinz Riedle

    Aug 27, 2009
    Dublin, Ireland
    Club:
    Cork City
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    It depends. Makanda n Alaa Bakir both wanted to play for DFB but doesn’t get the clearance

    Don’t think Volland is a bad player at all, decent role player I guess. Obviously not an aerial threat , but he is good at winning duels, press n use his strong physique. Can play back-to-goal n that’s something many of our strikers cannot do (Werner, Uth)

    1994... I don’t know how u define him but Philipp is a striker too right? He plays there for Dortmund

    And many “ex-strikers” have converted from strikers to centrebacks in recent years: Felix Gotze, Jan Ferdinand, Daniel Wein... even Niklas Sule was a striker in C-Jugend level but converted into striker because the likelyhood to emerge at striker is lower than at CB. Julian Hollen is another example who I witnessed him transforming from CF to CB

    We are not talking about from strikers to wingers/midfielders like Haberer, Wolf or Stiepermann

    We are talking about strikers to CBs... because CF more difficult to find place at pro level . They might as well have to play at Wing first before they play CF. Fullkrug also had such experience when he was with Bremen

    2 strikers per age group is my absolute minimum. 2 who can play/start regularly in 1 or 2 BL:

    1995: Selke, Weydandt (2BL?)
    1996: Werner, Waldschmidt
    1997: Teuchert (in 2BL), Owusu (I hope)
    1998: Serra, Johannes Eggestein
    1999: David Otto, Florian Kruger
    2000: Fiete Arp, Jesaja Herrmann (I hope), Burkardt
    2001: Jastremski (2BL), Makanda
    2002: Borkowski, Adeyemi
    2003: Gedikli, Gunther
     
  5. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    isn't Bakir pretty much playing wings? As for Makanda kid hasn't been much productive this season and he does play for Frankfurt (one of the worst clubs for promotion). Should have stayed at FCN where they actually promote players.

    Weydandt has so far shown that he's not out of place in 1BL while playing for a crappy team.
    Owusu? Seems more like you want him based on size and physicality. Already 22 and has done nothing in his career.

    I think there could be more than 2 for numerous of these age groups. Which hopefully shows progress in terms of dev. But we need it to be in 1BL not 2BL. 2BL is fine for gaining experience but that's it not to be a lifelong player there. Unless you want some of these players to play 2BL until their late 20s and then move up, also not great.
     
  6. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #4781 Ger90, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
    RB Leipzig wins Germany's biggest boys tournament
    Neubrandenburg. Sonic names like Mario Götze, Toni Kroos, Julian Draxler, Mats Hummels, Michael Ballack and Matthias Sammer have already given their business card at Germany's biggest boy's tournament. At the 53rd edition, it was now the U13 kicker from RB Leipzig, who left the Neubrandenburger Halle as the lucky winner in front of 3,000 spectators.
    http://www.sportbuzzer.de/artikel/rb-leipzig-gewinnt-grosstes-knabenturnier-deutschlands/

    U13 means 06 age group.

    they beat Union Berlin 3-1 in the final. There were also some Turkish and French clubs.

    "Schossler convinced not only in the final with two goals. He was also voted best player in the tournament. The strongest goalkeeper was Galatasaray Istanbul: Emre Enes Büyük. Eight goals and thus the most in the tournament scored Philipp Köhl of Bayer 04 Leverkusen."

    well hopefully for these kids by the time they reach U19, RB Leipzig will fix the mess that is their Academy. Worst in the whole league in terms of chances at 0 in 1BL.
     
  7. Karl-Heinz Riedle

    Aug 27, 2009
    Dublin, Ireland
    Club:
    Cork City
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Depends... if teams are playing just one starting striker , is probably difficult for every age group to have more than 2 starting strikers in 1BL

    18 teams, maybe 20 starting strikers . If one age group have more than 3, 4-5 age groups. Where are the veteran CFs


    And if they emerge, they can usually play till 32/33 years old. So the younger ones will be more difficult to emerge

    The problem with this position is the expectancy is longer. The new blood usually come in slower

    If all teams play with two CFs, that’s another story. Even Hoffenheim play with 3 CFs in Kramaric/Befodil, Szalai, Joelinton, two have to play wider ... so it’s actually just one Centre Forward role on the pitch
     
  8. Karl-Heinz Riedle

    Aug 27, 2009
    Dublin, Ireland
    Club:
    Cork City
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I think one per age group in 1BL more realistic

    But of coz Burkardt, Waldschmidt m, Adeyemi, Gunther can play everywhere up front , not just striker
     
  9. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #4784 Ger90, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
    one per age group isn't a given. And the discussion was not necessarily about starters either. Just look at 95 for example, there are 5 95 strikers in 1BL currently.

    we are talking about youngsters and most teams have like 5 strikers. Being a sub or rotational player or getting chances due to injury is still important in any team. After all plenty of strikers became starters through the non XI route, meaning from bench. Whether the regular starter is out of form or injured or the bench player performs better. Or just plain old, the starter transfers to another club.

    guys like Serra and F.Kruger who are performing in 2BL and if they continue they will just attract more interest from 1BL.

    neither me nor you rates lyoha but he's been active in 2BL this season and is on loan from Fortuna. He's done so well that Meyer the Aue coach played 3 strikers in the last game just to include him. If he continues in the 2nd half, would be hard to see Fortuna dump him in Summer. So far he's done a ton better than Seydel did in 2BL.
     
  10. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    From the 95's it's mainly Selke and Weydandt who are the ones with consistent playing time. Koepke after 2 good seasons in 2BL hasn't gotten a breakthrough chance at Hertha yet maybe next season. Kleindienst was rumored to go on loan to St. Pauli couple weeks ago but talks have cooled. His contract runs out at the end of the season not so much substantial links of who's actually interested in him but indications would probably point towards 2BL

    In 96 it's Werner and Waldschmidt who have developed. Platte and Seydel can't stay healthy long enough to perform consistently. They will be playing in 2BL again next season. But they need to remain healthy and productive to not risk falling towards 3BL territory. With how Phil Hofmann fell there when Braunschweig relegated and honestly no one wants him. Hanslik is the wild card in this age group. If he can land at a club good for his development next season that could be a big boost.

    In 97 Teuchert and Knoell need to stay healthy and improve. They're not there yet but then again it took Waldschmidt several seasons and change of club before he got better now. Iyoha has shown positives at Aue. Moerschel hasn't played much at Kiel. Reese and Owusu have been ineffective in 2BL. Eckert seems to be bouncing back and forth between senior and reserves at Celta de Vigo but not there yet. Fwiw Tietz and Huth are couple of the more productive youth players in 3BL. Kader not doing well in Turkish 3rd division
     
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  11. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #4786 Ger90, Jan 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
    you forget Palacios Martinez for 95. Concerning Kopke, he's been positive whenever he played for Hertha 1st team. Even scoring today, he's certainly not doing himself any harm. It's just that Selke and Ibi are ahead. Kiprit is also trying to breakthrough.

    Platte would have been 1BL player if it wasn't for his constant injuries. His last season in 1BL was promising, such a waste. Would like to see him do well post break and likely next season than hopefully he returns to 1BL. Seydel is in Worse shape, will be 23 having done barely anything, still injured with no timetable. Seems like his huge height is delaying his return. Next thing you know the guy will turn 24 having a pretty empty career.

    97 is iffy, I sometimes wonder if Schalke will lose patience with Teuchert, let's not forget the up and comer in Kutucu and Tedesco did say they are considering getting a striker. Believe Eckert's chances are dwindling, seems like current coach isn't keen on him and Celta are being linked with some Barca players. Reese seems like he's 3rd Liga level tbh. Such a waste that Tietz who performed in 3rd Liga last season and was top scorer for his club gets loaned once again to that level. He's pretty much wasting a year when he should be playing 2BL.That's the problem of both Huth and Tietz (even Duker), that they went back to 3rd Liga means they are nowhere near 1BL. Might take them a bunch of years before they jump to the top level. Unless they join a club that gets promotion.

    the reality about the 95 is that if H96 get relegated that dumps Weydandt to 2BL, if FCN get relegated that dumps Knoll/Martinez to 2BL. Then Kleindienst's likely going to 2BL.

    that just reduces the number, this lot need to play as well as possible, need to up their game and numbers to attract interest from other clubs otherwise down they go.

    Relegation will surely reduce the numbers of German strikers in 1BL next season. It's why we need some of these guys like lyoha, Serra, Kruger, Daferner/Pieringer/Nieland, Musel, D.Otto, Arp/Wintzheimer (Hamburg promotion), Malone, Burkardt, etc and any 99-00 striker to really become part of the 1st team. Some 00s will likely be forced to play II 1st.
     
  12. Karl-Heinz Riedle

    Aug 27, 2009
    Dublin, Ireland
    Club:
    Cork City
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    5 95 striker making first team means what? Seriously

    U don’t count playing regularly?

    I mean if most teams are playing with one starting striker as centre forward. 18 teams maybe 18-23 strikers starting regularly in 1BL

    Regularly not playing here n there for 10min a game. Not those 5th striker who make the squad

    If there are just 23 strikers who play regularly in 1BL , having 2 or 3 per age group is not realistic

    Maybe 50% are foreign strikers. Some veteran (old but not too old at 30-32) are still serviceable n some are good : Stindl, Ibisevic, Finnbogason, Kruse, Petersen n co

    Then not too many spots left for strikers who are 23 or under.

    Being registered in a squad is pointless. That’s why u count Pascal Kopke or Kleindienst. What matters is who plays regularly (not even starting)

    I think one per age group from 1997-2002 will be amazing. I think we will be lucky if we have one striker per age group starting regularly in the league
     
  13. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    You don't even read. I already said Selke and Weydandt are the only ones getting regular time. Kopke hasn't done anything this season. And Kleindient is on his way to 2BL at this rate. Learn to read, enough said
     
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  14. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    16.56 GMT: Meanwhile, in other Turkish-related news, Everton are scouting Schalke's 18-year-old rising star Gorkem Can, sources have told ESPN.

    The centre-back, who captains the Schalke U19 side, is a favourite of U19s coach Norbert Elgert, who has played a key role in developing talents such as Mesut Ozil, Manuel Neuer, Julian Draxler, Leroy Sane and Benedikt Howedes in recent years.

    Can started his career as a No. 10 before being converted into a left-footed centre-back after joining Schalke from Bochum at youth level. He is represented by Family & Football, who also have Arsenal's Shkodran Mustafi among their clients, and the Toffees already have an open communication channel with the company after signing Mustafi from Hamburg back in 2009.
    http://www.espn.co.uk/soccer/blog/t...n-to-real-madrid-kostas-manolas-to-man-united

    00 CB Can is still involved with Germany NT. Although that's such a bad move he's better off breaking through at Schalke 1st. Everton is likely to dump the kid in EPL2.

    and he seems rated at Schalke too.
     
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  15. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Can looks like a decent prospect but he should stay within Germany. From Shalke hopefully him and/or Niklas Wiemann are able to make it as CBs
     
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  16. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    either one breaking through would be good (both is preferred although seems less likely), although feels like Can is rated more at Schalke.

    I do find when it comes to NT, something's off. It's like plenty of players are breaking through 1st team or getting close as in next season, rated by their clubs etc yet they get ignored by Germany. Celebi, Can, Raschl are just quick names there are plenty of others too.
     
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  17. Karl-Heinz Riedle

    Aug 27, 2009
    Dublin, Ireland
    Club:
    Cork City
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Yes. Christian Wuck said clubs have some agreements with DFB nowadays regarding their players

    Not sure if that’s the reason. But it might be one
     
  18. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    speaking of Wuck is there a reason why he doesn't really call any new CFs for 03?

    seems to be pretty much Gedikli, Sieb (SS), and Schmid. I mean the 03s are in Winter Camp until Sunday and he calls the same players. This could have been the right time to include other strikers.
     
  19. Karl-Heinz Riedle

    Aug 27, 2009
    Dublin, Ireland
    Club:
    Cork City
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Gunther? He is first choice CF for 2003

    According to Jakov Suver(2003 CB plays for Stuttgart n DFB U16) , he thinks Lasse Gunther plays better at CF than at LW

    I think the new generations of strikers can pretty much play a few positions up front. Much like Cristiano Ronaldo, Firmino and Suarez.

    Wuck did call up Xaver Kroll (who scored 24 goals last season in C-Jugend), Luis Klein (another who can play striker) n he did try Wasilewski last season. @Ger90 i said this many times Kroll was a topscorer last season n he was called up

    For now, looks like Gunther n Gedikli are way ahead in terms of potential and ability. Will be there for sure

    Third CF they rotate a bit Schmid/Kroll. Barata can also play as a centre forward
     
  20. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    it's a Winter camp, shouldn't be about that type of thing anyways. Doesn't hurt to call someone else. Instead seems almost like some exclusive club, lol.:p

    Wasilewski in the meantime is playing Poland U16.
     
  21. Karl-Heinz Riedle

    Aug 27, 2009
    Dublin, Ireland
    Club:
    Cork City
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Wasilewski will switch here n there for now. He’s having a bad season. Hard to call him

    Why did u rule out Gunther as striker? He’s our best striker for now, along with Gedikli, n by a certain distance

    We have four strikers n playing 4231. Sieb is a SS but also play CF since he is very physical (not tall but tenacious), Schmid is a CF

    I think The training method emphasises 3v3 rather than 7v7. Maybe the position will be less defined

    Even Gedikli who plays CF for Leverkusen this season, can play right winger.

    Gedikli and Gunther both are big for their age, and both play all positions up front.

    Considering that, maybe Wuck already have 4-5 strikers under his belt
     
  22. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    If I recall you were interested in Mehicevic.

    also any knowledge on 03-Igor Matanovic? He's the 2nd 03 top scorer from the 3 U17 leagues after Gedikli.
    6 goals and 5 assists in 15 games for a player who's from St Pauli U17, that's not the biggest club too.
     
  23. Karl-Heinz Riedle

    Aug 27, 2009
    Dublin, Ireland
    Club:
    Cork City
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Mehicevic is actually an AM/SS, always a midfielder before

    This season is like a transformation. I think he will have his chance, Wuck just needa make sure his transformation to striker is alright

    But of coz, clubs are having some agreement to protect their players sometimes, so they might not play for any Nt that something we don’t know

    Goals scored is misleading. Some targetman I like, they need to press a lot, win duels n drop back n involve in build-up ... sacrificing their scoring number.

    Trend of targetman is also to be mobile. Pressing n winning duels use up stamina enormously

    Like I said about Yussuf Poulsen n Welbeck, not good scorers by number but very useful tactically. The kind of strikers Germany lack too in fact, in terms of certain qualities

    Diverting scoring points is important. If u have an important striker got injured, doesn’t mean ur attack will be affected
     
  24. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    -looks like Dynamo's Atilgan and Lowe have impressed.
    https://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/...tilgan-und-loewe-geben-gas-59480828.bild.html

    -meanwhile Hamburg look to either get rid of or loan Ferari and Kwarteng.
    http://www.sportbuzzer.de/artikel/bericht-hsv-will-die-talente-ferati-und-kwarteng-loswerden/

    Kwarteng signed his pro contract in Summer 2018 for 3 years, seems more fitting for a loan than to dump him after half a year. While Ferati has been there since 2016 and hasn't 1 game for HSV, in 3 years. He seems more likely to be let go.

    -for friendlies looks like players who weren't part of the Hoff camp were used because Bicakcic, Nelson, Demirbay, Rupp and Hack were absent which called up N.Wahling, Bender, Amade, Politakis, and Baumgartner (Austrian) to the 1st team.

    they had 2 friendlies today, Amiri and Geiger scored once each, while Geiger also seem to have gotten an assist or 2. All the listed youngsters also got playing time.

    01-Klein started 1 half in a friendly in what ended up as a 5-2 win, he conceded 1 goal of the 2.

    Hoogma getting a red in the 27th minute ruined the game that Amade, Politakis, N.Wahling played.

    D.Otto started 1 game and seems like he played RW, reactions online was that he wasn't that great. Well he's hasn't been match fit due to injury for like 2 months now and also being deployed on the wings in his return.

    although seems to have been involved in one of the goals.


    -Bremen had a 2-2 draw, J.Eggestein wasn't fit so he didn't make the squad, Kohfeldt wanted him to make it. Youth who played
    XI: M.Eggestein
    sub: Mbom, Wagner

    -Augsburg won 3-1, they used their youth in 2nd half only.
    Subs: Malone, Asta, Schwarzholz, Jakob, Rosch

    -Stuttgart played
    XI: Baumgartl
    subs: Aidonis
    Unused bench: Dajaku, O.Wahling

    -Bayer had Wolf has unused bench player

    -Dortmund had Pieper, Raschl play entire game while Burnic played 1 half in a 3-2 win.

    according to kicker, Raschl and Burnic made a better pairing than Raschl and Delaney. Burnic took over from Delaney.


    "After the break BVB, in which now Raschl and Dzenis Burnic formed the central midfield, played more powerful and came through Hakimi (60th, 67th) and Isak (66th) to good chances."

    the opponent scored 2 in 1st half but 0 in 2nd half.
     
  25. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    -there was another Bayer friendly where Schreck played 71 min and Wolf got 19 minutes taking over from Schreck. Looks like Wolf assisted the final goal.

    while Akono scored in the 4-2 loss to Bayer.


    Akono seems to show plenty of promise over the last 2 seasons. Whether in U19 or with 1st team.

    -Schalke had a 2-2 draw in a friendly.
    Nubel played 2nd half, Goller got 6 min and Teuchert was unused bench player

    speaking of Nubel, no Winter loan for him but could get a loan next season.
    http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...tiv-kein-abschied-im-winter.html#omsmtwkicker

    -Burnic played another 6 min in a 2-1 win for Dortmund although he's headed out of the club anyways. While Dahoud played the full game.

    -Gladbach lost 2-0, Beyer was the only youth used played 2nd half. Musel and Neuhaus were unused bench players while Bennetts was not fit to make the matchday squad.

    -St Pauli lost 3-2
    Youth who played Carstens, Zehir, Becker, Coordes, Koglin.

    Although this was like 3 45 min halfs or something.

    -
     

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