German Youth Discussion Thread Vol. III [R]

it hardly matters whether people think there are problems or not. Bierhoff isn't some random ex player, who's a wash out.

He's part of the dfb, if he thinks there are problems with the system and the youth, than huge chance the rest also think there are too. And I don't think they will go with inaction.

 

Yeah, they've been making changes for the last year. More individual training sessions and more emphasis on dribbling, finishing and 1v1 defending.

 

where's the heading?

and that training has yet to amount to much from the current players. As they all have those problems even the U21.

nor does that solve the problem of creating too many players alike.

he also recently mentioned analyzing the youth setups and I don't think the purpose of that is for giggles.

 

it;s not just about developing/improving the players and their game. It's also a desire to stay on top. Bierhoff is right the other countries are catching up especially in the youth areas.

Do we want to struggle massively in the future vs countries like Brazil/Argentina/Spain/Italy/France, even England seem to have tons of promising current youths.

even if your completely satisfied with having a few players in each group. You still have to have an eye on the competition.

what does it say about German youth? when German clubs are buying like horde French youth? It says that there excess of talent is more well seen than ours are.

Spain and France are currently 2 countries that are pumping up players like crazy. Plenty even think their players are better or more potential than ours.

 

Well, the best u21 players beat the South American champions( Argentina with Messi couldn't beat them two years in a row) and the Concacaf champions.They were clinical and they defended pretty well overall considering they were the big underdogs. The u21 B team(also big underdogs) beat Spain's fantastic U21 team. Not sure what problems you are talking about. If the German U21 players have big problems then every other nation has massive problems.

Also, you can't seriously expect the changes to affect the 21-22 year olds. According to the DFB(I don't remember where I read it), the golden age of learning is between the ages of 11 and 14. That's where it's important to make changes.

 

France didn't qualify for the U19 and U21 Euro's this year. Spain's great U21 team lost to our B team. Spain's U19 team didn't qualify for the Euro. Why don't you talk about them being in crisis?

 

You are praising France and Spain even though they have crap results at youth level and you are lambasting Germany after winning the CC with a very young team and the U21 Euro with the B team. Sounds crazy.

 

and so what if France didn't qualify for the U19. We were better off not qualifying ourselves.
Yeah those French players are so bad that the Bundeslliga are buying plenty of 18-19 year old French kids.

And Us beating Spain U21 doesn't mean we're better than them. LOL Spain have crap result at youth......they just made the finals in 3 out of the last 4 U21. They've also done very well at the U17. Where our U17 were no match for theirs. And I always see you praising Spain and their players...

as for France not qualifying for the U21. Dembele and all those highly praised 19-21 year olds, don't exist right? Thats one player for example who played like 2 games in the U21 qualifiers. Even Mbappe missed qualifiers for the U19 while being with the seniors, at his age.

whereas us we played all the U21 including most of the CC ones for the qualifiers.

nor did I lambaste our performances. Those weren't even harsh criticism towards the CC or the U21. Just problems I saw with how we played. I lambasted and shredded the U19 and U20, that is accurate.

and oh sure there is need to look at other countries. You never even responded about Brazil, Argentina, Italy and England who are getting more and more players with potential. Spain and France aren't the only potential rivals you know.

 

so this season transfers
Bayern-Sule and Gnabry (although Gnabry is going on loan it seems)
Dortmund-Dahoud and Philipp
Koln-Horn
Hertha-Selke
Freiburg-Stenzel
Gladbach-Ginter and Neuhaus (although he's headed on loan towards the 2nd Bundesliga)
Bayer-Kohr
Augusburg-Khedira
Hamburg-Pollersbeck
Wolf-Uduokhai, Stefaniak
Stuttgart-Burnić (on loan)


all the bolded are no longer eligible for youth.
so that's Dahoud, Horn, Stenzel ,Uduokhai, and Burnic.

am I missing someone?

 

We are producing too many players of the same type.

DFB are giving out too much guidelines to football academies n football schools

Everything is so systematic

But at the same time, players don't have the freedom to develop further in their strengths n other areas

Sometimes, having a different learning environment, different coaching system can be good for young players. They can develop differently so we can produce players of different type

Producing skilled, versatile attackers is a big reason for the long striker drought. U need specific training for strikers. Positioning inside the box, physicality n aerial ability. It's not a winger like Schuerrle or Reus or Goetze can do.

This is just an example.

And this is a big reason why false 9 never works with Germany.

Bundesliga teams play Targetman up top , but when Germany can never produce one. Bundesliga teams don't have such option so they have to play foreign strikers

 

Well, I told you : ''So what if Germany's B team gets eliminated in the group stages of the U19 Euro? Who cares?'' and you responded with '' I care, it's a disgrace to the country.'' But now when we talk about France, you say their failure doesn't matter because they are producing top players. (Btw, France got eliminated by Bulgaria. Our depleted team beat Bulgaria 3-0)
Anyway, it goes to show that U19 results aren't that important( like I told you before). So why are you putting such importance on Germany's results?

Well, then I can say Netherlands and England beating us(our understrength team) doesn't mean they're better than us.

Pretty hypocritical. You are making excuses for France( they were missing key players) but you are criticizing Germany for having bad results while missing plenty of key players.

 

In fact, Klopp also mentioned about the issue in Germany.

We have a huge number of amazingly skilled n versatile attackers. Like Schuerrle, Mueller n Reus.. they all have decent size at around 6ft but they can't make headers

That's why coaches would prefer to play them away from goal N not as a centre forward

Mueller is 186cm tall, but I'd wonder why he has never improved his physique n aerial ability to enhance his game

Why? Is it because coaches don't think our system need such attacker so they just simply asked him "don't bother, just improve ur passing game."

N i think Muller's facing a big challenge because he hasn't improved other areas of his game to make him serviceable in other tactcial setup.



@timh19 @Epitome990 @Sifrit @smithfan

 

LOL, maybe I just have a higher standards than most on this thread when it comes to players in any level wearing the German NT jersey.

and the point still stands, we could be in danger in the long run of being lesser than other countries as they catch up and produce talent factories.

 

U know England were missing like 6-7 top players who are eligible to play for U19?

N they beat us with 1999 n 2000ers. That's alarming

 

are Reese and Ochs being loaned out next season? I don't think either currently has a place at either Schalke or Hoff. With Haji Wright doing well, even less of a reason to have Reese around.

 

We were missing 10 good/important players. As I said before, these results with understrength teams don't matter. England had only 1 2000-born player. Two of their '99s got injured in the beginning of the match so they had 7 '98s, 3 '99s and 1 2000. You make it sound like their whole team consisted of '99s and '00s. IMO, the two teams were more or less equal for 70-80 minutes. England were more effective( our best strikers are absent) but they didn't look that special to me. The 2 late goals happened because we were chasing the game and had to overcommit. The scoreline is misleading. Busam really killed us with his performance. He made a schoolboy error for England's 1st goal which put us on the backfoot for the rest of the match. The overall team performance wasn't great but wasn't much worse than England's. We were equal for about 70 or so minutes.


We could have called up our best '99s (Havertz, Akkaynak, Maier would have been big upgrades over Saglam and Friede) like England did but we didn't. The DFB don't like to fast track younger players to the U19 NT. They prefer to give the supposedly less talented U19 players a chance to prove themselves.

 

Pascal Stenzel scored 2 goals in Freiburg's 11-0 friendly win.

 

I think Aaron Seydel, Felix Platte, Johannes Eggestein, Janni Serra n maybe Cedric Teuchert will be the main options at the striker position for our next U21

Iyoha, Reese, Knoll, Arweiler n Putaro need to get their career sorted. Don't see much upside from them.

Iyoha has a striker body but he can't score goals, like a poor man's Mlapa; Reese doesn't have a position in a 433 formation; I think Arweiler also have some issue with his position

 

would be nice to have a striker for the next U21 that's actually a starter in a Bundesliga team. Most of them seem to be more likely in 2nd Bundesliga or bench players. There is only 2 season before the U21. Will be interesting to see if any of them could brake into a Bundesliga staring XI by the 2018-2019 season?

 

RB) Henrichs, Klunter, Klostermann

CB) Tah, Torunarigha, Uduokhai, Kehrer, Anton, Baumgartl

LB) Jannes Horn, Guwara, Mittelstadt, Franke

DM) Dahoud, Christensen, Burnic, Suat Serdar, Geiger, Janelt

RW) Oztunali, Passlack, Baku

AM) Amiri, Havertz, Ozcan, Bescuschkow

LW) Ochs, Barkok, Robin Hack

CF) Platte, Seydel, Teuchert, Eggestein, Janni Serra




* yea I don't think Henrichs n Tah are good enough for the NT yet. I still don't think they are ready for that step. Maybe another two years with U21 isn't a bad idea

 

I think 2 years later, Platte n Eggestein will have significant Bundesliga experience. Seydel maybe marginal but Teuchert will also play a lot in 2BL in the near future.

Don't think this firepower is any worse than our current U21

 

I don't mean they will have no significant 1st division experience. I'm sure they all will. Just that it would be great to see a youth striker break into a starting XI in the 1st division. From all of them the closest to that was Platte at Darmstadt. Where in the last 7 games of the season he had.

6/7 starts and the last game matchday 34, was out injured.
from those 6 starts he had 2 goals and 1 assist.

but now at Schalke, could be he the starter? Or more likely a bench player?

as for the current U21, Selke was a bench warmer in his last season at RB and he was our main striker.

 

It's difficult for 22 year olds to be a starting CF in Schalke, Mainz or apparently Dortmund

They only play one starting centre forward and want more experience from that lone striker role.

I think Platte will play behind Burgstaller or even DI Santo for now; Seydel is probably behind Kodro n Muto, but Kodro isn't that good so chance is there.

I m expecting both to start around 5-10 matches a season, n 15-20 games as sub

Teuchert apparently will get more starting appearance but he's playing in 2BL only

Eggestein, really depends on Werder Bremen's setup, they played a 3-5-2 formation with two strikers.so his chance isn't slim when Werder Bremen has two starting striker roles

 

Teuchert is from ''the worst age group ever.'' That's why he will never amount to anything. Therefore it's pointless to ever mention him again on this board. Okay ?

 

a striker that is eligible for the next U21 is Luca Waldschmidt.
In Hamburg's 1st friendly he scored 2 goals.

Hahn also scored 2 goals while Lasogga scored 1.

Also Arp played from the 65 minute to the end but did not score.