Review: German player 2013-2014 season performance thread

Discussion in 'Germany: National Teams' started by Kirsten19, Aug 9, 2013.

  1. Kirsten19

    Kirsten19 Member

    Apr 1, 2008
    Newport Beach, CA
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    The new season begins lets discuss

    I like what I saw from Boateng and Max Kruse(even Gladbach lost, looked very lively) today.

    What's your perspective in the first game this season?

    Neuer n ter Stegen are good as ever, Max Kruse is a steal at 2.5mil. May be a good successor of Klose for the NT up top after his retirement
     
  2. Leinad

    Leinad Member+

    Jun 13, 2006
    Düsseldorf
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I think Boateng continues to show that he is atm the best german CB. Hummels on the other hand with another sloppy game today. If he continues to play that way I can't even blame Löw for using Mertesacker instead.
    Besides that a good game by Kroos, he simply fits Guardiola's system while Lahm is really attack minded under Guardiola. I do like that but he will need a few more games to adapt to this offensive interpretation.
    About Kruse... I like him but please stop with the overhyping. The guy first needs to show at Gladbach that he can be a good player in this role and even then there are other candidates for the german NT.
    Btw Gündogan showed again that he is at best an average AM and should never be played there, he belongs in CM.
     
  3. hackespitze123

    Jul 24, 2008
    Germany
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    While I agree that Gündogan's best position is central midfield, I don't think it's fair to judge him on this particular match, knowing that he just came back from injury and was actually doubtful for the match.
     
  4. Kirsten19

    Kirsten19 Member

    Apr 1, 2008
    Newport Beach, CA
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Kruse played great last season for Freiburg and apparently they made that Europa Cup push last season, Kruse was probably one of the main reasons

    There aren't many striker options for the NT too. Klose, Gomez, Kiessling, Kruse, Volland? Those 5, and Loew may choose 2 or 3 from those options
     
  5. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Hummels sloppy game?

    wow, we're really reaching now aren't we? You don't even wait for a game where Dortmund concede to have the nerve to make that argument.

    10 out of 10 effective clearances, no turnovers. Admittedly, Subotic had a slightly better match statistically but Hummels was just fine against Augbusrg and there are NO conclusions to be reached from the match.
     
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  6. timh19

    timh19 Member+

    Jul 26, 2011
    I remember one of Augsburg's great chances was when their striker beat Hummels in the air.
     
  7. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany

    So? Would you make the conclusion Leinad made based on THAT? Laughable.
     
  8. Dr Faust

    Dr Faust Member+

    Jul 12, 2010
    Germany
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Hummels lost 1 duel against some player and should therefore be replaced by Mertesacker who has never lost any duel against anyone.
     
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  9. hackespitze123

    Jul 24, 2008
    Germany
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    It'll be very interesting to see if and how Pep is going to play Götze on the 'false #9' position in München, as it'll of course have an impact on the national team, too. Götze just came back from injury and scored twice on that position, albeit against sub par opposition.

    Löw already tried Götze there in the qualification against Kazakhstan. It remains to be seen if it'll work against strong teams, too.

    Götze has intelligence, movement and technique to succeed there. What he's still lacking is finishing / composure in front of the goal. But that's actually something that can be learned / improved. Even Messi was not a goal scoring machine in his early days.
     
  10. BorisG

    BorisG Member+

    Sep 30, 2009
    Namibia
    Club:
    FC Nürnberg
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
  11. hackespitze123

    Jul 24, 2008
    Germany
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    He's very much 'verzichtbar'. If Löw doesn't get it, his successor will.

    Poldi is a good squad player to have though.
     
  12. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    One player I'll be following this season is Hamburg's Maximilian Beister.

    He showed great potential 2 seasons ago in the 2nd Bundesliga with Dusseldorf (11 goals, 13 assists) at age 21-22. Last season he didn't get many chances (came on as a sub off the bench 15 times out of the 23 games he was featured in).

    Hopefully now Beister gets more regular playing time and opportunities to excel. He's already scored in Hamburg's season opener against Schalke. Should be the team's starting right midfielder/winger if he stays focused and healthy.
     
  13. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Beister doesn't offer much to be honest. He'll be a good Bundesliga player not international quality. I doubt he will usurp the likes of Reus, Götze, Müller, Draxler, and Kruse. Doesn't have anywhere near same ceiling.
     
  14. Snakeater

    Snakeater Member

    Sep 21, 2005
    You make it sound as though it's guaranteed that Goetze is going to be a starter for Bayern. Thomas Mueller and Toni Kroos will have something to say about that, the former having been nominated as one of the ten best players in the world.

    You write that "Goetze has intelligence, movement and technique to succeed there." Don't Mueller and Kroos possess the same skills? It'll be fascinating to see what role he plays for Bayern, whether he becomes a crucial player or just another piece of a very strong puzzle.

    Goetze does what a good passing-oriented, central, attacking mid should do and nothing more. He lacks the shooting technique of his compatriots.

    As you know, I'm not as high on him as many others. He's a good player but over-hyped.
     
  15. Goetzil10

    Goetzil10 Member

    Real Madrid
    Germany
    Jul 1, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Any reasons why Lahm is being played in the midfield so much so far for Guardiola? Could it be that he has better ball retention ability than Kroos/Schweini/Thiago in that area? Just very fascinating.
     
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  16. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen

    With this golden age of young talent, I don't see Beister reaching the national team level either. (Though I wouldn't necessarily quite write-off Beister potentially being as good as Kruse someday...)

    But having another solid player in the Bundesliga will enhance the quality of the game and increase overall competitiveness. Personally, I'm also just a fan of following the development of young German prospects even if they aren't quite as prominent.
     
  17. hackespitze123

    Jul 24, 2008
    Germany
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Actually, I didn't, as I clearly wrote " if and how" Götze is going to work as a false #9 in München.

    Kroos won't play on that position because his excellent passing skills are needed elsewhere in Guardiola's system. He is a ball retainer, a #8, his primary job is to keep possession, with the odd shot on goal now and then when the opportunity arises. He has the technique and intelligence but not the movement. There is a reason that neither Guardiola nor Löw have played him up front even once. Löw calls him a "Zwischenspieler" which pretty much sums him up nicely.

    Müller is a far more likely candidate for that position, as could be seen in the Bayern preparation. But it's clearly not his preferred position, he clearly enjoys playing in the midfield, where his trademark ghost runs to create space for others have been so devastating. It remains to be seen if he can have the same kind of effectiveness further up the pitch. Müller has the intelligence and movement but, while far from being a donkey, not the impeccable technique, which can be important in the tightest of spaces, as a false #9 more or less implies more chances created through the middle and hence less space to manoeuvre.

    Götze's finishing is still lacking, no doubt about it, but that's probably a lot more due to a lack of composure than shooting technique, but as I said, he can work on that . Besides, the role he is going to play demands precision and calmness in front of the goal rather than a monster shot, as the distance to goal will be rather short more often than not.

    Time will tell how things will work out in München and Germany, but it's rather telling that Pep played him up front in the very first minutes he has been playing for his new team so far. And Löw also chose him for his false #9 experiment vs. Kazakhstan.
     
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  18. Snakeater

    Snakeater Member

    Sep 21, 2005
    Good point! I argued a number of years ago that I thought Lahm would make an excellent midfielder, not necessarily a CM, but a wide-sided midfielder. That was in 2008. In those days, there was a dearth of talent in the National Team at that position. It certainly is interesting to see him getting time at CM when Bayern has so much quality in that position to begin with.
     
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  19. hackespitze123

    Jul 24, 2008
    Germany
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Not necessarily ball retention (as Bayern have no better player in this regard than Kroos - just watch him play, he very rarely misplaces a pass) but more about balance. Lahm adds that extra bit of stability to the midfield as he's an outstanding all-rounder. Lahm is an extremely intelligent and versatile player with great positioning, tackling and ability to read the game, in addition to a flawless technique and close control. Bayern have been lacking balance as the team is getting used to the new system and playing Lahm there helped give them that.

    While I do expect to seem him playing in midfield now and then, e.g. when Bayern want to 'close shop' to kill off a game, I don't think that Pep will permanently change his position. I expect him to continue as RB because a) Bayern are loaded with midfield talent anyway and b) he's needed more back there as one of the world's best fullbacks.
     
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  20. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Lahm would actually be the best choice for the Busquets role as he balances retention, tackling, workrate, awareness, and IQ but I agree, he will mostly be used on the right.
     
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  21. nekkibasara

    nekkibasara Member+

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Virginia
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Lahm has only been used in the midfield due to the number of injuries we're dealing with. Martinez and Schweini aren't fully fit, and Thiago was sick.
     
  22. Leinad

    Leinad Member+

    Jun 13, 2006
    Düsseldorf
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany

    Calm down, I was a supporter of Hummels before you probably even knew him but he needs to stop easy mistakes and those don't show up in any stats...

    He will be. Let's be realistic here, we don't spend big on a player like him to not plan as starter with him. It's the same as with Martinez which was bought and despite strong competition it was clear from the beginning that he will be a starter (as soon as he is fit).

    I don't think that Kroos is competition for Götze because they simply fill different roles. Müller on the other hand should worry more about Robben.

    Müller has certainly not the technique of Götze and in tight spaces Götze is naturally a far superior player. He is afterall one of the best dribblers out there and that alone is something different he will offer compared to Müller/Kroos.
    And I think he recent friendly was just a glimpse of what can be expected of Götze at Bayern.

    Which is just not true. His shot is certainly better than Müller's whose shooting technique is rather weak/unprecise. Götze also doesn't have the hardest shot but he has a lot more precision. The reason that Müller scores is not his shooting technique, it's his positioning and doing the unexpected at times.
    It should be mentioned that Götze had last season a great shots-per-goal rate and the only issues is that he needs to shot more (though in a striker position he would obviously have more opportunity to do so).

    But he is not just a "good player" and certainly deserves his "hype" (I hate that nowadays this word is used for every highly rated player).
     
  23. Kirsten19

    Kirsten19 Member

    Apr 1, 2008
    Newport Beach, CA
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    How is Boateng compared to Hummels nowadays? who is better CB?
     
  24. Vlad S.

    Vlad S. Member+

    May 6, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I think Hummels is certainly a stronger CB than Hummels.
     
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  25. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I sincerely doubt this. You know nothing about me.

    At least you're consistent in being a dope with this statement just like you were in your initial conclusion.

    Fan of Hummels or not, you need a tighter grip on reality. Moreover if you're going to make those extreme statements, use evidence to back it up, including stats, what you deem to "not show" up in any stats, etc otherwise you will be called out on it.
     

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