Hello, everybody. I wanted to start this thread for one simple reason: to remember Gerd Müller. Now that he can't remember himself. You know that it has been officially reported by Bayern München that Müller has Alzheimer disease. I felt so sad hearing this. He has always been one of my favourite ever players, and I certainly consider him the greatest goalscoring machine that ever lived. And, by all accounts, he was a very humble "man of the people" who set incredible goalscoring records while shunning the media spotlight and often being considered "not good in skills and technique". Had he lived today, I have few doubts people would have held him in higher esteem. Not that his talent was not recognised at the time, he won the Ballon d'Or obviously, but I'm pretty sure he was underrated in other aspects. I was wondering what you guys think about him, and if those of you who were born before 1960 or so have any recollection about him. I read an article about him and his disease on Facebook tonight. It's in Italian, but it ends with something like "he has forgotten the name of his omonymous Thomas and of the other players he trained. He will forgeteverything else. At last, and only at last, he will also forget how to score." Swear I was on the verge of crying.
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 ein prosit für den bomber!
G.Müller WC70 third, top scorer WC74 champion, - EU72 champion, top scorer EC74 champion, top scorer EC75 champion, top scorer EC76 champion, - 631 official 1st level goals =1 Ballon d'Or Cronaldo EU04 runner-up CL08 champion, top scorer CL14 champion, top scorer 503 official 1st level goals =3 Ballon d'Or's Says everything about perceived appreciation of the eras.
That's a nonsensical comparison. Even his greatest detractors would admit Cristiano belonged among the 20 most skilled or gifted players of his day, particularly his younger version. There is no question there. Meanwhile, for all the propaganda and campaigning, Müller just wasn't seen that way. Besides you don't apply potential refereeing bias and awards corruption at a equal measure (them and New York Cosmos using the same fixer as Tapie's Olympique Marseille; ask Havelange for the Anglogerman campaigning axis in football) If Cristiano had played 40 years ago he would still be a relatively flashy player.
How is Cronaldo skilled player? Cronaldo isn't about skill, but rinse and repeat until something hits the target.
Cristiano Ronaldo and Gerd Müller are two different kind of players, I agree. I genuinely don't know whom I would place first in a ranking, Ronaldo possesses a multiplicity of skills and physical attributes which make him arguably the flashiest player of the last ten years bar Messi but Müller, while being more than decent in technique, was the most clinical scorer ever. As I said before, an absolutely perfect goalscoring machine. But they are both wonderful players, in their own way. No question here. I like it a lot when the original thread topic causes other things & facts to be discussed, but this time I'd rather talk about Müller. We all know that Messi and C. Ronaldo are the best players of this day, if it's not to give more information / bring to light something new about Müller I would leave them out of the thread. Unless you want to compare, season by season, the goalscoring prowess of Messi / Ronaldo vs. Müller, I would like that. And I'm pretty sure that, as great as those two guys' statistics are, Müller's are better. And they are better in important games.
Can you argue why Cronaldo is a "skilled player", rather than "rinse and repeat player", considering some statistics about quality above?
Cause we watched him playing. He clearly is a very skilled footballer. Statistics aren't everything. They come after, and only after, having seen how a player plays. Football is not mathematics, thanks god. (And by the way, however you want to consider them, 325 goals in 312 Real Madrid games, whichever factors you want to account for, is not bad statistics. At all.) Now, to Gerd Müller?
It very much is, it just doesn't have numbers in it (because your question was how skillful he is, not how many assists and through balls he averages per game) and it does not go into detail here (because this is a thread about Gerd Müller, not how good Cristiano Ronaldo is). Stats about Gerd Müller, that would be on topic. (Though, again, it wouldn't define his skills as a footballer but only his -incredibly great- goalscoring abilities.)
Lol, whatever. For the third time, do you have anything to say about Gerd Müller? Because I did ask you, since you so keenly replied to a thread about Müller throwing in random stats which supposedly prove that Cristiano Ronaldo is just a poacher, and even a bad one.
My point was to show how much more appreciated Muller would've been in todays football based on goals, than in 70's, and the relation was to Cronaldo.