General Banter NSR

Discussion in 'Vancouver Whitecaps' started by JohnnyRanger, Jun 30, 2011.

  1. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    mallet doesnt come across as Kerfoot's puppet- he is a sports leader who has taken on the role because the local owner refuses to be seen or heard... greg would do well to take a page from atlanta's owner, arthur blank, and see what an egaged owner can do for the Club in the community and in setting the principle ingredients for the team's on-field success- i think mallet has some of those ingredients
     
  2. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    i have had enough of the Whitecaps flapping gums-- i will join the walk-out at the 35th minute- anyone else joining ?
     
  3. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
    Kudos to the Timber's Army travelling fans for joining the 35th minute protest. Very cool move.
    PS. I'm not at the games as I live in another province.
     
  4. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Yes, it was very good of them to do that. Tremendous respect.
     
  5. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    went trolling and came across this- never seen it before-- did i miss it ??

    https://www.theprogress.com/news/soccer-club-knew-about-suspended-b-c-coachs-past-says-ex-member/

    https://ciaramccormack.com/2019/03/...ack-reddy-statement-in-regards-to-coastal-fc/

    one of my thoughts about the bizarre Whitecap handling of the 2008 womens' issue is that the Coastal Surrey Club 'shoe' still has to drop - something happened with BB at the Coastal Club and the Cap owners and FO are terrified that they could be involved by failing to notify the CSA, BC Soccer and Coastal Surrey about BB- and if all 3 organizations did know, then why was he hired without due diligence ?? and why was he allowed to continue to coach ??

    this might explain why the Whitecaps handling of the 2008 womens' issue has been soooo bizarre - they might have been advised to keep their mouths shut by... ????
     
  6. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
    So Coastal FC knew but didn't think anything of it because it was "hearsay"? I doubt either the CSA or the Whitecaps would be allowed to say anything by their lawyers after they parted ways due to no charges. The lure of getting a national team level coach for their club appears to have clouded their judgement.

    According to Montagliani's interview with the Guardian "national organizations do not deal with coach registrations and responsibility lies with regional governing bodies or local clubs".

    Because nobody went to the cops what would the lawyers allow anyone to say? You could get sued for libel if you say the wrong thing. Way too many groups just looking the other way and hoping "it all goes away" for my liking.

    Thanks for the links I hadn't seen those.
     
  7. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    [QUOTE="tm13, post: 37773842, member: 119928

    Thanks for the links I hadn't seen those.[/QUOTE]

    i checked coastal surrey 2 months ago and never saw these 2 links- i would have seen them- i have no doubt that the letter was written on March 5, but somehow magically, curiously showed up in the last 2 days - STRANGE

    jack reddy-- https://gohorns.ca/coaches.aspx?rc=190

    and he was with coastal surrey 2011-2013, exactly the time he raised his concerns to coastal surrey about BB
     
  8. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    and i dont think this information surprises GC or JJ A
     
  9. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Caps FO is ********ed. They will eventually go down with this and whatever else is coming out. They can only hold out for so long. At some point the invisible man and mr integrity will have to throw someone under the bus.
     
  10. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    DID THIS FOR STUDY:

    MLS TEAM STANDINGS/PAYROLL, SEPT 16, 2019:


    STANDING TEAM PAYROLL PAYROLL PLACE



    1 LAFC $14,439,693 4


    2 NYCFC $10,122,178 15


    3 PHILA $9,103,605 16


    4 SEATTLE $12,531,291 6


    5 ATLANTA $12,427,119 7


    6 MUFC $8,999,889 18


    7 RSL $10,416,439 13


    8 LAG $18,514,139 2


    9 TFC $22,244,535 1



    10 DCU $10,571, 12


    11 SJE $9,079,206 17


    12 PORT $11,786,333 9



    13 DALL $8,551,844 21


    14 NYRB $8,301,854 22


    15 NER $8,930,469 20


    16 MONT $12,139,404 8


    17 SKC $13,013,585 5


    18 CHI $16,674,805 3



    19 COL $8,937,176 19


    20 ORL $11,557,974 10


    21 HOUS $7,510,630 23


    22 COLU $10,867,692 11


    23 VANC $7,248,349 24


    24 CINN $10,241,912 14

    spending more money doesnt mean a thing- its what you do with the money, but spending at least over the MLS salary pots by $2-3 mill is essential IMO - it all comes down to good scouting, team chemistry, good coaching, lady luck and team owners' committment and ambition

    what does it mean for the Caps-

    1. good scouting- lousy for 2019 and we dont yet have a scouting team; MDS has to hit 90% for 2020 on probably 6-8 new players, unlike in 2019 when he hit well under 50% (YES- hwang, crepeau, cornelius, adnan; NO- bangoura, venuto, sutter, rose, PC, felipe, montero, ardaiz, erice)

    2. team chemistry-- with another overhaul coming, it will take until the summer, 2020, to see if the team becomes a TEAM

    3. good coaching- i do expect MDS to do a lot better, but he has to settle on his best 14 players and team formation, and instill unity and belief

    4. lady luck- avoiding lt injuries and bad VAR decisions

    5. team owners committment and ambition- even with Garber squeezing their balls, i am not convinced they will totally follow through- THEY LIE!

    its a TALL ORDER with lots of pitfalls-- seems to me that making the playoffs for 2020 wont be easy; 2021 should be the year to see much better results/playoffs and 2022 might be the year to contend
     
  11. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    6. the development and success of the Academy program
     
  12. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    after watching the Canada win over the USA last night, and watching alphonso davies run the USA defence ragged (hello tim ream, etc), its a shame and waste of his unusual and unique talents to see his club, bayern munich, turn him into a LB

    phonsie's soccer spirit and purpose is running at defences, not sitting back defending with the odd overlap run down the wing- coach john herdman gets it, bayern doesnt

    maybe for the good of his career, he will need to blow dodge and go to a club that will use and maximize his special talents
     
  13. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Yes, I fear that if Bayern settles him at LB he will be typecast as that and future transfers will look at him as "buying a LB".

    Well, as long as Herdmann keeps playing him this way we can see more of his abilities.
     
  14. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    hot potato said:
    DID THIS FOR STUDY:

    MLS TEAM STANDINGS/PAYROLL, SEPT 16, 2019:

    STANDING TEAM PAYROLL PAYROLL PLACE

    LAFC $14,439,693 -# 4

    NYCFC $10,122,178- # 15

    PHILA $9,103,605- # 16

    SEATTLE $12,531,291- # 6

    ATLANTA $12,427,119- # 7

    MUFC $8,999,889- # 18

    RSL $10,416,439- # 13

    LAG $18,514,139- # 2

    TFC $22,244,535-# 1

    DCU $10,571, 000- # 12

    SJE $9,079,206 000- # 17

    PORT $11,786,333- # 9

    DALL $8,551,844- # 21

    NYRB $8,301,854- # 22

    NER $8,930,469- # 20

    MONT $12,139,404- # 8

    SKC $13,013,585- # 5

    CHI $16,674,805- # 3

    COL $8,937,176- # 19

    ORL $11,557,974- # 10

    HOUS $7,510,630- # 23

    COLU $10,867,692- # 11

    VANC $7,248,349- # 24

    CINN $10,241,912- # 14

    /QUOTE]

    MLS conference finals: spending analysis- MONEY DOES TALK

    - TFC - #1
    - LAFC- #4
    - Seatte- #6
    - Atlanta- #7


    SIDE NOTE- LAG was #2 in spending; the only team that got little return was Chicago at #3
     
  15. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    The separation is going to increase . Its pretty clear some of the big owners and Garber want this to be a top level league (at least in their minds). That would require even bigger payrolls and most markets will find that unsustainable. The league is heading towards a model where, even if a place like Vancouver had a good spending owner, that owner would need to take huge losses just to have a good enough squad to win a cup. In otherwords, to the model where 2 - 4 teams always win and nobody else has a chance other than a one-off fantasy every 30 years.

    They also are funding their operations with expansion money . Most owners, like Kerfoot and Co, are pocketing that money (they have received at least 50 million dollars (its more but I don't have the time to look it all up and do the math) and have another 50+ coming with the expected expansion numbers down the road). Eventually that money will stop (even if they go crazy up to 36 or 38 they do have to stop at some point). Which then leaves 2 - 4 owners who will lose 30 million a year just because, and the rest of the league trying to have some business sense.

    Without a major TV deal, these are the numbers and realities the league will face. For all of our bitching at the Caps spending, there will be a time when even good spending won't be enough without throwing common sense out the window.

    Every league the mLS wants to aspire to, have big TV dollars. MLS still has pathetic ratings in the US and I don't know how they will change that. Stars from the world are not changing that.

    I used to be opposed to this, but with where the leagues finance and payroll goals are heading, it may be the right move for Vancouver and Montreal to sell their MLS piece and open up CPL teams (not with Kerfoot here, sell and let someone better buy the rights to the names).

    Kerfoot and Co have made a ton of money on this. From the appreciation in value (with expansions going for 200 million, they could certainly sell to a US market for that kind of money), and the expansion money (50+ million so far and a heck of a lot more to come).
     
  16. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
    I would add Kansas to the Chicago group ($13,013,585- # 5). So 1/3rd of the top six teams spent a lot of $$ poorly.
     
  17. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
    Nothing crazy about 36 or 38. That would be 2 leagues (East & West) with 18 or 19 teams. The only play between leagues would be the playoff tournament.

    Add to that the extra revenue from the Caps not owning their own stadium.

    No they can't just "sell to a US market". This is a single entity ownership. All the others would have to agree and why would someone buy the Caps or Impact to move them when they can get a new franchise for roughly the same amount?

    Chivas thought they could and got SFA. That leads me to believe that the single entity has some small print to the effect that "we get first chance to buy your team and will pay your original franchise fee and that's all".
     
    OldFan2015 repped this.
  18. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    Interesting on the sale value.. This is one area I know little about and have not seen any documents to help me understand how that all works if they want to move a team and who gets what price.

    They will make money that is for damn sure, which was the crux of my point.
     
  19. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
    I still disagree on Vancouver and Montreal quitting MLS and joining CPL. We need the whole pyramid and we are now so close I can feel it. Why throw away 2/3rds of the top eschelon? They would still be internationals on any USA based club so that would leave only TFC for Canadian players to shoot for? 20 spots instead of 60?

    That just doesn't make sense to me. We've finally cobbled together a pyramid of sorts (still a work in progress) with the CPL providing that crucial link for the 18-22 year olds not going to university and not good enough yet for MLS.

    More half season or whole season loans from MLS clubs to CPL teams is such a great win-win and that is what we need more of. No guaranteed playing time so the players have to take it and prove they can perform at the CPL level and very inexpensive for the CPL team as the salary is paid in whole or part by the MLS team.

    3 in 2019, hopefully a lot more in 2020.

    https://northerntribune.ca/isacco-toronto-fc-loan-players/
     
  20. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    wouldnt it be a good idea to live in the real world of Whitecap soccer ??

    offering up ridiculous rumors of Caps being interested in such players as oliver giroud (33, $6 mill USD, transfer fee of +$10 mill), michael bradley (32, $6.5 mill USD, free transfer), and lucas cavallini ($800K, but in the prime of his career in a better league and a contract transfer fee in the $7-8 mill USD range)

    the Club cant even find a new sporting director and head scout - what reputable person would take on the job with such a poor FO and set of owners? word gets around-- even a world-class city in a reasonable stadium with good support at
    20 000 wouldnt make quality soccer people bite at this apple

    the 'dog and pony' show continues - poor MDS and his staff must be exhausted traveling the world trying to find suitable players for 2020- isnt that what a scouting staff and sporting director take the lead on ??
     
  21. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    TRUMPing MY OWN HORN::

    9 former whitecap players are being left unprotected by their current clubs- brek shea (the $700K sub), david ousted, darren mattocks, steven beitashour, lee nuguyen (should never have been traded), jordan harvey, brad knighton, shea salinas, erik hurtado, and kekuta manneh (vastly overrated which i said when he was a Cap, but most disagreed with me)

    some were tremendous professionals and i wish them well- beitashour, harvey, ousted, hurtado, nguyen, knighton

    the one player that should be avoided- kekuata- speed without skill, ambition and courage is wasted
     
  22. tm13

    tm13 Member

    Jan 15, 2008
    Rocky Mountains
    I wouldn't mind having Nguyen back. Stupid move to let him go. At 33 I think he still has some gas in the tank and would be worth a one year contract. Manneh? At a reduced price he would give some depth at wing yes I still disagree with you on him :)

    The rest no thanks.
     
  23. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    totally agree- coach martin rennie traded nguyen for a small indiscretion and we lost a talented MF - signing him would be a depth upgrade for sure--

    but not manneh- speed without skill, ambition and courage is not a player to have - if he cant make it with cincy- the bottom club in 2019- why would we sign him ??? i dont see MDS making that mistake
     
  24. hot potato

    hot potato Member+

    Feb 21, 2014
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    CANADA HEAD COACH, JOHN HERDMAN, AND HIS FOLLIES:

    after swamping the usa in TO 2 weeks ago (2-0), herdman decided with making major changes :

    1. breaking up the successful CB duo of vittoria and cornelius, and inserting henry for conelius- it turned out to be a disasterous decision- doneil hadnt player a competitive game for over 1 month

    2. inserting davies at LB after he shredded the USA defence as a striker in the previous win- the USA took advantage of phonzie's offensive bursts upfield (probably with herdman's direction) and the USA created havoc down our left side on quick counter-attacks

    3. broke up the effective striking duos of david/daves and cavallini/hoilett, and instead started with cavallini/david

    why he had to change the winning formula is beyond me- his weakness is his over-thinking and over-strategizing- he needs to buy into KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)-

    Canada's disorganization started in the first minute and set the tone for a 4-1 USA win

    strange decisions by john herdman and he should admit he got it WRONG
     
  25. OldFan2015

    OldFan2015 Member

    Nov 29, 2015
    Club:
    Vancouver Whitecaps
    John has had 3 games against serious opponents, the rest have been "pad the stats"

    So lets take a look

    1 -Haiti - 2-0 halftime lead blown
    2 - USA - victory and they looked great
    3 - USA- destroyed after making significant changes to the tactics from the victory

    I am not impressed at this point. I have no issue losing the the US if we give them our best. However,our best puts Davies as an attacker and it completely changes the output when he is at LB. I understand his club puts him there, but LB saws off a lot of his abilities and freedom.

    John over thinks things perhaps. Wants to be tricky and not show the same thing twice. I don't know but if you get a winning formula, use it again.

    He had some of this with the women. They would rack up the stats against lower ranked teams throughout the year, but they hit the big tournaments against the power houses and they just show so many glaring coaching errors.

    I don't like how the whole OZ firing played out and the behind the scenes power play John made to get that spot. So, I will admit I am looking at him through troubled eyes. But, with this level of talent for us to not be 6th in CONCACAF is not acceptable to me. Not with this roster. The whole WCQ situation is digraceful what CONCACAF did, but we are stuck with it and should be in that HEX. We are in for 2026 as hosts and that bumps the WC up to 48 teams so they will change qualifying again for 2030 with new spots so Canada may get back to back entries. But for 2022, not making that with our talent would be a serious disappointment and I would lay that on the coach.

    We keep going with the local guys and the internationally experienced coaches get roughed up by the CSA (mostly, in my opinion, because they try to change the archaic old boys network we still have here). This has happened since the end of the Holger era. Floro got treated poorly, OZ was just treated disgracefully, and the rest have been the local guys (I call John a local as the bulk of his experience is here).
     

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