Ok, so Jon “Targaryen” Snow is now legitimate heir to the Iron Throne…but in making that so, we have had a rather large revision of Westeros history as we know it… Robert’s Rebellion and the Baratheon claim to the throne was based, in large part, on the idea that Prince Rhaegar forcefully abducted Lyanna Stark and raped her…this lead to the Robert’s righteous rebellion of which Ned Stark was a part of….a simple matter of honor. It now appears, not so simple, to the point, where it might be a complete lie…. Was Robert really avenging his fiancé’s honor and the terrible wrong committed against them….or was he just a jilted lover, because Lyanna fell in love with Rhaegar and went with him willingly? Now, I can believe Robert would/could lie to himself and others regarding the truth of the matter….BUT, I have a big problem believing Ned Stark would lie to himself the same way… How would Ned not know the truth of the matter? And whereas Ned might not be happy with Lyanna for breaking off her marriage to Robert…would that be enough for him to go to war over? Ok, I know The Mad King had also killed Ned’s father by that point, but Ned’s father was protesting the abduction of Lyanna, which once again, appears to have been a lie….a legitimate marriage between Targaryen and Stark would have been a huge upgrade, so why would Richark be so upset? Furthermore, never has there been the slightest hint that Ned believed anything but the abduction and rape of his sister….I would think Ned’s and Robert’s relationship would be somewhat different if Ned knew the Rebellion had all been based on a lie…. I guess it’s cool and all, that Jon is now officially in the “game of thrones,” but in doing so, has created a lot of disappointing continuity questions in my mind that I struggle to make sense of…. I guess, the simplest explanation we are supposed to believe is that Rhaegar did in fact forcefully abducted Lyanna Stark, but at some point during that abduction, Lyanna actually fell in love with Rhaegar….ah, ok…
I think most of Robert's Rebellion still works from a POV where Rhaegar and Lyanna essentially eloped and then the Mad King escalated the situation beyond repair by killing Rickard and Brandon Stark. Not sure if you can deem it an re-imagining of the history. The obvious problem from Rhaegar's point of view is that the Martells would have reacted quite badly to Elia being replaced as future Queen. But without the Mad King's insane intervention/escalation, there is at least the possibility of them having been compensated in a way that would have prevented a civil war.
I forget is the "kidnapping" of Lyanna the reason behind Rickard and Brandon's visit to the Mad King?
Yes....Brandon went first demanding justice....Brandon was imprisoned...Rickard was ordered to court....
I don’t know…the whole way Robert, Ned and everyone reflects on Lyanna and the Rebellion makes little sense if was a some kind of Romeo and Juliet situation…which is what we are lead to believe now….
But as far as we know Robert and Ned didn't know it was consensual. Bran's use of the word "lie" regarding the rebellion may have been incorrect, "misunderstanding" may have been more accurate.
Isn't the most realistic explanation that Rhaegar and Lyanna were so in love that they eloped. Then by the time either of them had the chance to consider the implications of what they had done the Mad King had made everything much worse and the situation could no longer be salvaged.
Even IF they misunderstood things to begin with, I can’t believe they wouldn’t have known the truth at some point…and once again, I can see Robert deluding himself of the truth, but not Ned…yet, no indication Ned every doubts the “myth” of perfect, pure, martyr Lyanna ….
The time it took for all that to transpire could be have been fixed with a simple raven from Rhaegar and/or Lyanna…
Yeah, unfortunately, that’s not usually how it works….any competing claim to the throne or anything that would muddy the lines of secession could not simply be ignored….the cold hard reality is Cersei’s child, born or unborn, would be a threat to Dany’s rule/claim….it would be hard, even a bit unrealistic, for Dany to deny/ignore that fact….
Now with the clarification regarding Rickard and Bran going to the Mad King that is the way I see it. Not really, remember Sansa sent a Raven to Rob to try and stop him going to war and no one believed it. Why would they believe one from Lyanna, saying she was in love, especially after Rickard and Brandon being burned alive? edit to add: I've been thinking a lot after the full reveal how I hope GRRM covers these events more in depth down the road in a book. edit edit to add: Or the Rebellion being one of the spin off stories HBO plans to do.
They don’t necessarily have to believe it….but they at least have to mention or reference it at some point…you would think such speculation would at least give the Starks pause… There was plenty of time between their “eloping” and Rickard and Brandan’s bonfire to clear the matter up…. Either way, the whole myth of Lyanna has been changed from abducted martyr to seemly impetuous, uncaring love struck puppy who never lifted a finger to stop a war in HER name….
Without having any solid timeline on them eloping, the burning, and the rebellion all we can do is make assumptions. Maybe after they secret marriage the newlyweds went into seclusion and had no idea what was happenening. Maybe during their seclusion they were sorting out how to break the news to the Starks, Baratheons, Targaryens, Martells. Maybe the plan they came up with was to keep Lyanna hidden out of fear the Martells may try and murder her so Rhaegar returned to Kings Landing to present the news but the rebellion had already broken out. So there was no time to get word to Lyanna to send word to Ned. Without a clear timeline or knowledge of the events after the couple eloped all we can do is speculate.
What's the timeline? If Lyanna kept it secret, remember even the Maester history says it's a secret, Ned wouldn't have known when he rescued the baby. Lyanna died before telling him anything other than the name.
True, but we do know Brandon rode to Kings Landing first, and then Rickard at some point later after being summoned by the King…all that would taken some amount of time…. And I straight up don’t believe Rhaegar and Lyanna wouldn’t have understood the volatile situation they created and left behind…. And even after all that, including the murder of her brother and father, to sit idly by and allow her now beloved husband and loyal, honorable brother to go at it, without even attempting reconciliation seems like a bitch move to me…she has to know one is going to die (if not both), once again, no indention she ever tried to prevent any of it…even if a futile gesture…
Why keep it a secret (her love for Rhaegar) from her family? A family who was literally going to war over her…
Even something like incest between Jamie and Cersei is somewhat common knowledge (at least rumored about at one’s own peril)…yet the idea that Rhaegar and Lyanna actually loved each and the whole Rebellion was just some tragic love inspired mistake and misunderstand is never even hinted at (what a great song that would make)….sorry, just not sure I am ever completely buy that….
I think this is exactly why she went into hiding and may have not known what was going on. They knew what they were doing was going to up end many different alliances.
Which changes her myth…if she knowingly and willingly put her family and country though all that by running off and hiding from it….you would think Ned might be, I don’t know, a little resentful….yet, he held her in honored reverence….I mean good lord, Rhaegar was heir to the throne; there is NO reason the Starks would have opposed such a marriage (it’s the jackpot of noble marriages!)….screw Robert Baratheon and the Martell’s aren’t their concern… But perhaps, the Mad King opposed such marriage, likely and possible…I am not necessarily opposed to this new narrative; I just struggle to make good sense of it…