Friendly: Italy - Ivory Coast (August 10th, 2010) [R]

Nick - For me, it is simple in the sense that if a player is not performing well for club, I don't know how he can suddenly turn it on for country. Grosso may have been the exception but that does not happen often. We can't expect our players to be champions if they don't do so for country.

 

I agree with that.

 

The FIGC should buy a club (say Empoli) have a strict salary cap of like 2M Euros per season, stock it completely with Italians and Oriundi and just use that as the NT.

They wouldn't win many Scudetti but they'd win a lot of Euros and World Cups, I reckon.

I doubt it would be legal, though.

 

If we go with the premise that Cassano is not the end all (Forza's comment, not mine), then logic tells us that there was no reason to call him for South Africa. Cassano has the possibility to add something special. All I am saying is that he needs to do so on a consistent basis for Sampdoria. We can come up with the greatest formation and player selections possible. But if these players are not making their club sides competitive threats, it is not going to happen at the NT level.

 

That was done here in the US back in the early 80's. Team America was the name if I recall correctly. They played here in DC in the NASL. I think it lasted for a season.

I believe that stars are made at the club international stage. We might say Messi, who if we just look at him playing for Argentina, is not anything special. While he did not score, Argentina would not have made it as far as they did without him. But Messi became Messi with Barcelona.

The stars for Inter in the CL were Sneijder, Maicon and Milito. Unfortunately, none are eligible for gli Azzurri. Once we get past Inter, who can we say among Italian players impressed at the European level? That is the source of our problem and one for whomever is coaching our team, whether that be Lippi, Prandelli and even Bearzot.

 

Gilardino has.

 

Now that I think about it Nick, some around here might say that Lippi tried that last year. But instead of Empoli, it was Juventus. And we know how that picture ended.

 

I knew that was going to be brought up. I just didn't think it would be you to do it. haha

 

If you can't laugh at yourself (or your team), who can you laugh at?

 

No player in world football is the end all. Him not being the end all is no justification for not calling him. He's still better than the likes of Di Natale and Iaquinta.

Cassano helped get Sampdoria into a top 4 finish which was an over achievement for them. He is performing at club level and i think perhaps you expect a little too much of him. His performance last night was pretty woeful but that doesn't mean we should simply write him off.

 

Alot of the Italians at Fiorentina impressed last season in the CL. Gamberini and Marchionni are 2 others that spring to mind.

 

This

 

Are you high? They are playing in the champions league. When was the last time there were there? He's a big reason they are anywhere near the money of the group stages. che stupido

 

Not too mention he has formed a very solid strike partnership with Pazzini. It seems rather insane that they have not been tried out at international level yet, am I right?

 

You are worried about what I am smoking? You do realize that Sampdoria is in a playoff for the CL. Losing 3-1 on the first leg is not the way to go about it. If you followed Serie A at all last season, you would have known that Del Neri benched Cassano for a good period during the spring. It was at that time that Samp moved up the standings. I am not the one trying to make Cassano into some superstar but then finding excuses for him when he does not perform. Talent alone does not make one a champion. And there have been many champions with less talent.

 

Yeah, I do think he is better than any of the trash that Lippi fielded. I always said that he caused his own problems, and he is where he is at for those problems. But to call him out, and claim he was benched for a 'good period' and didn't contribute to Samp being in the champions league is stupid.

Hmm, Serie A last season???

Ah, who gave the ball to Pazz on the first goal???

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lK2gbdKhq8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lK2gbdKhq8[/ame]

oh yeah, this too

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqF-ljqq7MQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqF-ljqq7MQ[/ame]

hahahaha...enjoy the Europa League.

Juventini

 

So what is your point? There is no denying that Cassano has been a YouTube sensation. It started with his goal against Inter when he was a teen. But he needs to be more than that. And so do a few other players. Making a spectacular play here and there is not going to cut the job. Cassano was not the difference last week in the friendly against the Ivory Coast. And he was not the difference yesterday in a big match to qualify for the CL. That needs to change. I am hoping that it does. But if all of the fan boys do nothing but show some YouTube highlights and ignore the fact that he has yet to prove that he is a champion, then you are setting yourself for a big disappointment when the chips will count. I hope he tears Werder Bremen apart next week, then has a good opening Serie A match to go into the qualifiers against Estonia and Faroe Islands. If he does not, we may be eliminated for Euro 2012 before the year is out.

 

He is more than just a youtube sensation, he has the end product and results to back it up.

The nature of second strikers is that they will decide the game with a few moments of inspiration. He plays too far up the pitch to run the show, but he can make some decisive contributions in the final third.

He was poor in the 2 games you mentioned, and like you said he needs to step it up in the coming months and i hope he does. However, it is worth noting that he has performed in many big games throughout his career at every level.

 

He does not have months to step it up. He has to step it up in the coming weeks, starting with next week. He has to get Samp through to the CL and that will not be an easy feat with a 3-1 deficit. And then he needs to do his part to earn 6 points in the first two qualifiers. There are no making excuses. There have been plenty of second strikers in the Azzurri history who have run the show. And with our midfield, that position is very important in running the show. I thought that was the whole point of why some of you wanted him included in South Africa. If he is just going to be some other player on the roster, we already have too many of those types.

 

Samp are over achieving. It will not be a disaster if they end up in the EL. In fact they are more likely to achieve something signficant there.

Times have changed, the midfield key these days, and it will usually be a midfielder (if anyone) running the show. This doesn't mean Cassano can't be an important player in the final third and still make decisive contributions (i.e. goals and assists).

 

We wanted a lot of other players beyond Cassano on that roster. Too many players? Hahaha, name me one other player that can do what he does? Whether it be from Lippi's dream team or Prandelli's first selections.

Again, I ain't saying he's our saviour. But to claim that we have players of his quality in abundance is stupid and it suggest an ulterior motive behind all this doom and gloom that the Juventini are spewing. They want to deflect all the blame from Lippi and put it on the state of Serie A. It was one game, he had a bad one. Realistically, it could have ended 2--2 if Pazz had some luck and the ref didn't call a penalty for something that happens in the box every corner kick.

 

SAMP needs to get Samp through to the CL, and not just Cassano. A few posts ago your were mentioning how Samp seemingly moved up the standings in the Spring when Cassano was being benched by Del Nieri, as though to suggest that they were excelling without him and his baggage. Now you are trying to suggest that their CL hopes rely almost entirely on him?

As for him "needing to do his part" to earn the first 6 points in the qualifiers...I'd have to agree. But I'd also add to that by saying that EVERYONE on that team is gonna need to do their part in order to earn those 6 points. Cassano isn't teh only quality player on that squad. Whether your name is Rossi, Pazzini, Balotelli, Pirlo, De Rossi, Gilardino, Quagliarella, etc., the NT will not excel unless it is a collaborative effort.

I simply don't agree that Cassano needs to be the one that steps up and carries the load for the squad, especially if the squad as a whole is under-performing and underachieving.

 

Lippi deserves a portion of the blame, I agree, but so does Serie A (or calcio in general) for piss-poor player development over the past decade or so. The NT hasn't the proper support from the domestic clubs, and it has ended up hurting the Azzurri in the long run. Lippi deserves to be blasted for his stubborn, and somewhat "antique" mentallity during his second tour, but there's also no way in hell Lega Calcio should be given a free pass either.

 

Samp got themselves into the CL playoff. The team has responsibility to make the most of it. But that has been my point all along, that teams are much too satisfied to be mediocre. There is also incentive for Samp to win the playoff. Playing in the group phase brings in cash to the club.

Times changing means nothing. Right now, there are no midfield maestri for gli Azzurri outside of Pirlo. Did you not watch the WC this past summer? What I don't understand from some of you is that you have been harping the inclusion of Cassano and Balotelli for months, maybe even over a year, and when they are picked, just as long as they play, that is enough. I say no. Those two are suppose to be the difference makers. Yet, we got shut out by the Ivory Coast. Am I missing something? Yes, it was only a friendly. One in August, which historically is not good for Italy. But this was suppose to be the stamp of a new cycle for the NT. And I expected to see something more. We better see something more against Estonia and Faroe Islands. I hope those two do give us something more. I don't see a Messi, Sneijder or Kaka among the Azzurri ranks coming out in the next few weeks. We don't have the luxury of times changing.

 

I have no idea how you read my comment as if we have an abundance of quality players? It is the opposite. That has been the point that several of us have been making. My comment was not about other players having the qualities of Cassano. My point is that we don't need a Cassano that is going to be nothing different than what we already have. And it is not just one game. It is the WC, the games that preceded the WC including the qualifiers. We are at a low cycle when it comes to quality among the players. I think some of them have the ability to step it up but it is not going to happen being called a few times by Prandelli. It has to happen with club play, especially those playing in Europe.