Red Fred Redemption - The Fred Thread

Fred needs structure. But ultimately I think his biggest issue is that United is too big a stage for him. He isn't a defensive midfielder, but he's the kind of deeper CM United should be using. He can use the ball well, he used to be press resistant and he wants the ball. We have systemic rot and we don't have the luxury of bringing Fred along as a passenger. He has got to step up.

The system we play where we don't have an elite 10, but we play with a 10 and then we don't have threats on both wings and we lack creativity from deep is just horrid. There's a reason we aren't creating enough chances from open play.

We need to be more confident in our defense and cede a little more possession and have another attacker on the pitch, in an attacking position when we look to transition.

Fred, because of his size cannot resist the press for long, he's got to make a quick pass. He can do that, but not if Mata is playing 10 and Rashford is playing striker. Mata never turns or runs beyond the forward so as an outlet he's useless. Rashford doesn't keep the ball well but when that's not an issue, he makes the wrong decision in transition.

Fred ends up getting bypassed a lot by defenders because they don't trust him to make a forward pass. That's on him but it is absolutely a function of our play, particularly when Pogba isn't on the pitch.

We either need a Thomas Partey type DM who can free Pogba + 1 to play attacking, box to box roles, or we need a retainer/DLP who is press resistant to help the team start attacks. Fred just can't be a 1 man midfield like Pogba can and while we can't expect him to thrive, he has to be better about keeping possession. He's showing signs, but I'm not hopeful.

 

Had 5 reps - paging @Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

 

Not sure I understand what’s been so impressive regarding Fred. He’s gone from being a useless liability to being passable. His current form certainly doesn’t justify is transfer fee and he’s far from being someone that should be considered when rebuilding our midfield this summer. Nothing hes done so far shows me his good enough to be a starter every week in a team that aspires to win the league.

 

Very true .. there is no trait in his play . for 52million you would want some part of game being atleast good if not exceptional.

 

Was good today. He's not a complete midfielder. He lacks the ability to slow things down and dictate play. That and threaded passes are his big weaknesses but there's plenty of use in a player with his ability playing the way he's playing right now.

When he combines his defensive energy with positive off the ball runs, he's able of contributing to attack which is helpful.

 

Im anxious to see him, Pogba and Scott together.

 

Yup, if Pogba buys into Ole's pressing and high energy play, there won't be a more athletic, physically imposing trio of midfielders around. There were periods of play under Mourinho where Pogba expended a ton of energy in both directions. I'd prefer he if he was like 65-35 attack/defense. Having him breaking forward when we counter instantly improves our counter attacks. If one of Fred or Scott release early and we have Paul holding, then he's got options long.

I legit cannot wait to see Pogba unleashed in this counter attacking team. He thrives with forward options.

 

The fact we aren't entertaining a midfield 3 while Pogba is out makes me wonder. It might be that we do play him as a '10', but he won't play the role as a 10, as AP or Lingard set out to play.

A huge part of how we played against Spurs and City was about us hitting the front 4 quickly, vertical passes killing the press. If we play a midfield 3 then we don't have that player behind Martial for us to hit, and we don't have those decoy runs from a 10 opening up space for an 8 to break into.

I still think Pogba's going to be in the double pivot then. But I do hope we look at the 3 in games where we dominate more and can get our 8s forward from deep.

 

We have two very different challenges - the games against top teams that will come at us and the games against teams that sit back.

I think a midfield 3 of McT, Fred and Pogs has great flexibility and can be setup in multiple ways and work in both situations. For example, in some McT behind Fred/Pogs, in some Pogs further forward stll (Ole has already said he will consider using Pogs as a 10 in some games). Lots of options.

When Fred plays with energy and with someone who does more of the #6 role to give him some insurance to be dynamic (as McT does) he looks a lot more effective.

Was really worrying about whether he was MUQ, but thought he was great against City and looked a proper Man Utd midfielder for probably the first time for me

Oh and please @Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10 change the thread title as above

 

After yesterday performance and votes it has to be

 

I think part of the problem we aren't trying the midfield 3 is because we don't have any tried and tested options due to fitness issues.

The issues w/ a 3 involving Fred, Scott and Paul will be that there's really not a true holder (although Scott is getting there) and there's not a true 10 either. As creative as Pogba is, he's best breaking the lines not playing off a striker. He also is far and away our best progressive passer and runner so him being further from goal in build up is better.

I do think as mentioned, against teams that won't have as much of the ball, we can try to counter-press by playing 2 8s up the pitch with 1 holder a little further back and that would be the best use of that 3 man line up. Probably better to cede the midfield at the start of games against teams that are willing to attack us and switch tact later on.

 

I wonder what changed with him to bring this recent run of form?

Previously he wasn't worth the Jersey on his back but is finally showing why they paid what they did for him. Glad to see him playing well!!

 

Getting a consistent run i think. Also the adjustment period. Also unlucky timing. He missed Ole's mini preseason. He also missed the summer preseason because he got married.

Missed Jose's preseason as well because he was injured during the wC

 

We don't need someone to "play" there, however one of Pogba, Fred Or McT can arrive there during the run of play.

None of our 10's have shown the passing or vision of a no. 10 anyway. We just need someone who can release the front 3 and also make 2nd wave runs into the box. Mctominay is more than capable imo. He can also carry the ball.

 

Does anyone else not have concerns Pogba could put in a shift with the ground coverage and intensity to compensate for benching Lingard in said 433 approach?

 

If you look at some of the videos breaking down our press-breaking strategy against City and Spurs, we basically played a 424 in the build up.

LW--------10------------9------------RW

and Fred and Mctominay were split. It meant that when City's pair of 8s (Silva and KDB) pressed, Rodri had a hard decision to make. Go w/ Jesse or go with Martial. He chose Martial most of the opening 3 minutes and Jesse kept getting the ball, drawing a CB and leaving Rashford 1v1. It happened multiple times.

It forced an adjustment where they stopped pressing with both 8s, kept Angelino at home and played KDB next to Rodri. We don't force that change (they later reverted to type when they threw caution to the wind) if we are playing a 3 man midfield.

 

I do have concerns, but im wondering even if he doesnt go all out, what he does bring will be enough to compensate.

I just think id rather this, than him playing im a double pivot. We cant drop Fred or Mctominay. Lingard has done better lately, but he can be dropped.

 

Good point.

But we'd maybe have to do this a handful of times a season. Maybe more...