France Football Player of the Century - Who voted for who?

>>

Tellingly though, Sol Campbell included Scholes too in his XI of best team mates (of the English Arsenal players he also played with Scholes most often I think? maybe Seaman more often than Campbell, but the other Arsenal outfield players?).

Both here and in the One2Eleven



One2Eleven in link below:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3x3791

Anyway, don't want to derail the thread although this is not totally off-thread.


David Seaman did not include Scholes in his One2Eleven. He hasn't been outspoken about it (I think) but his comments for One2Eleven seem to point towards Henry as most outstanding team mate.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/21901/9851319/david-seaman-picks-his-arsenal-one2eleven

http://www.givemesport.com/1220153-...s-first-touch-has-emerged-and-its-going-viral

 

Franco Baresi:

As one of the greatest defenders of all time, what do you make of today’s crop?

Football has changed so much in the last 15 to 20 years, not just on the pitch but in how it’s seen, access to information and the role of social media and all that. I think the way in which defenders are seen has also changed over the years. Real football fans know how important defenders are and they appreciate them. If I had to name names, then the one who really stands out is Virgil van Dijk, who’s shown the quality, character and strength that a defender needs to have to be a successful leader of a team like Liverpool.

You’re celebrating your 60th birthday on 8 May and in your six decades you’ve played alongside and seen so many great players. Which of them have a place on Franco Baresi’s list of all-time greats?

I’ve played with and against so many great players that it’s hard for me to choose. But given everything I’ve learned about football in my life, I’m going to choose two players from every generation who have really made their mark on the history of the game: Pele and Eusebio – who I remember watching on TV when I was young – Johan Cruyff and Franz Beckenbauer, then Diego Maradona and Michel Platini, Ronaldo and Marco van Basten, and finally Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. That ought to do it (laughs).

https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/...nders-are?_branch_match_id=395855551666599466

 

Some more info found:


(I think the original videotape is a British production but he's there to comment on it)

The gist of his comments about various things and players:

-- Johan, what does a world cup mean for a player

"Yes, that is something peculiar. It is once in four years. The possibilities to play are limited. If you have a long career you will play three, and then you have to be part of a big and powerful country as well. Apart from that it are the moments, the whole world has attention for you, the performances are at the highest level although maybe not better as the club scene."

"The first World Cup where I really understood what happened was 1962. Then in 1966 I lived it through even more consciously because of the time zone, highlights of all the games made it to television and with my club I happened to play against them in the preparation phase. [Spain vs Ajax 1-2]"

"Yes we and myself benefited enormously from the television era. That resulted in eventually the rest of the world appreciating me before I played in the World Cup, because in playing a few European finals and late runs there was the stage to built this up gradually. Television gave the audience."

Just Fontaine: "That is the obvious difference of course. The medium television that has brought a lot. It is someone with a nose for goals. If you see this then it is sometimes fumbling, but he makes them... This one was a very fine goal indeed [against West Germany], that will come now. There is a lot more space than now."

Ferenc Puskas: "Like Puskas there was only one I have to say. If you see that all... everyone who comes after so to say is functionally two-footed. The left foot of this man was a hand."

Pelé: "If you see this, just only the penalty area... Ball on his chest, over the top and shooting in. It looks very simple but that is all so close to failure."
--- What could he do more than you Johan?
"You cannot compare, but he is typically someone who scores goals. A goalscorer but there are more like that such as Gerd Muller, Just Fontaine, but on top of this he had also more footballing qualities and it all looked fantastically nice. Plus that he had a good overview, but always yet still in the penalty area."
--- A man who incredibly extracted money out of his career.
"Yes yes, that is also inherent to these countries."
--- You named Gerson, that is your favorite of this team right?
"Yes absolutely. Has always been. Here he places the ball on Pelé his chest but was able to do so five or six times in a game."
--- One thing Pelé was better at than you, that was with his head.
"For sure. Technically it is also all great. You see him less like Gerson, who was the playmaker and the facilitator. [sees the halfway line shot] Can you imagine what power and force that man had in his legs."
-- Was a dream coming reality when you played for the first time with him or against him.
"Yes we played a few times with each other and against each other but it came on a moment where I was also pretty good and was arrived so that was more like... more on a basis of equity. People on that level don't feel like being better or worse. In the press Pelé said also a few times nice things about me and the same I also had with Di Stefano, who is actually even more like my type.

Beckenbauer:
--- Then someone of whom we don't have many images and spectacular scenes, who maybe did not really dominate world championships is Franz Beckenbauer. Perhaps the best defender...
"... Not so much defending itself, but outside of that a personality. I often use him as an example now I'm coach, in the sense of always choosing the footballing solution, and at the moments he didn't do this there was no other choice, if you really take a look at this in hindsight. He easily kicked a ball in the stands or picked up his cautions here and there but then there was no other way. That was his great class, that he knew or felt what he could do and not do. He didn't trap a ball if it was not possible. And you cannot play well as free last man if you are not a proper midfielder."

Kempes:
--- The man of that World Cup, agree?
"Well I've seen some other good ones to be honest. Luque and so on. He caught the eye because after the short play Argentina executed he was often the one who finished it, plus that he had a truly powerful leg and thighs."
--- Pure intimidation football of Argentina?
"Undoubtedly. They've used everything in the home matches they could use. More than ever. A host country as much as you can be. But there were some good and even intelligent footballers in it like Ardiles, and Passarella in a way. It was objectively an almost perfect team."
-- A real world champion yet?
"Mwah... Not that you say really brilliant, but on that moment they were the strongest, seen in and added by those circumstances. And that has often been decisive for a world cup, not just for them."

"The French team in construction here... the keeper hurts himself sadly. This is the Netherlands team in the final. What you see is that all the goals were unfortunate. If you see this first goal there is a healthy dose of luck. The first who misses, the second who just misses.
What you also see is, to their credit, that their good players never go laying on the ground for nothing. You see it also with Kempes. A few times, where nowadays the Argentine stars seek the contact and go down with ease, he keeps standing upright. Yes and that bit of luck he had. Outstretched leg here at the 2nd goal, but well, some referees whistle it off for dangerous play, but not in this month."

Paolo Rossi: "Yeah he was suspended for gambling or fixing or so... As footballer, when he reached the apex of his fame, I don't rate him that high. As footballer I think you have an X amount of qualities and his quality is mainly waiting for his moment and scoring. The five meter area. Often people make the comparison with Gerd Muller, but I think Gerd - the simple one-twos - was footballing wise one stripe better. Rossi had a great nose and smell for moments, but in the football itself, the off-the-ball movements, he didn't participate a lot. But there are people like Geoff Hurst who score three times and that can in publicity make your career.
Typical Brazilian mistakes here. Had given a lot in previous matches, a sort of football Holland should play too, but they made many mistakes, I think maybe because of tiredness, lack of focus. Italy had the easier group stage, where Cameroon should have knocked them out, and had three days more rest than Brazil."
--- Mistakes in the organization?
"I don't know, can't judge that with certainty. Just before you saw a bad horizontal pass, that's an individual mistake, and now there is the left-back too slow from his line, cancelling the offside trap. And usually, if you remember, the Brazilians were off the blocks in a flash."

"Yes in that sort of situations [goal in final vs West Germany] he is very good, but if you see a row with Pelé, Puskas, Gerson and those type of stuff then that were types who had more at home. Football technically he doesn't belong there, although he has startling qualities, in matches where it counts even if he doesn't always win."

Rummenigge: "A solid footballer. Plus that he was on his top a few years earlier. Had the age for that, but already then in 1978 you saw what a brute force radiated from it."
--- Is this an absolute world crack or also not in the row...
"No also not already in that row I think, and also not with the career moments of Rossi overall. Just a bit short of that row - the margins are not giant of course.
--- What does he miss? The calm? The overview?
"I think if you put Pelé or Puskas next to it, I think it speaks for itself. The way it all happens, the quality of the goals. It is a finisher, but also who can play out a man one-vs-one, it is also based on power. But there is less..."
--- Refinement?
"Refinement... yes true, I even don't want to say that. But there is less... yes, the beautiful the brilliant what you see with Pelé, Albert, Ardiles or Gerson. There is less of that.
--- But like Pelé also someone who fully monetized, sponsored and publicized his fame.
"And how, he extracted what is out there."

Platini: "Here there is a difference. One of my favorites I have to say. Platini also scores his goals and has made quite a lot, but again the way he did it. It is all beautiful and it is a guy for teamwork too."
--- You find Platini an absolute great?
"Yes I think he elevates higher as the two we just had and is somewhere there with the others. Even more so the last few years."
--- Platini the man of the 1980s.
"I'd say so, although in the early years there wasn't a great amount of competition at the mountain of fame. But the matches he saw, the way he makes a goal, a lot of overview is situated in that. Sensitivity for the ball and that makes it beautiful. If you see this right? Three times a touch, a dribble with the ball within a few metres, and a goal."

 

Alex Ferguson at April 2002 named Pelé and Cruijff as the past players he most likes to have at Manchester United:


https://analogueboyinadigitalworld.wordpress.com/2014/03/12/magazine-archive-match-27-4-2002/

 

As an extra to this; Johnny Giles, who was in 2004 chosen as Ireland's Golden Player (hence post it here), picked a couple of weeks ago in a podcast the best players he played against. Not really sure whether he's the most astute observer but nevertheless decent to hear.

Zoff
Carlos Alberto
Beckenbauer
Passarella
Vogts
Platini
Rivelino
Maradona
Cruijff
Puskas
Di Stefano

He played against a very young Maradona (who came in as half-time substitute in '79) at his very last game for Ireland. He was 38.5 years old and is almost 20 years older.

Of course he said it's not set in stone, even though there are some obvious ones who should be in. He actually ran out of time when he got to Cruijff, so couldn't explain that one, where it was briefly mentioned Atletico Madrid used to have more trophies than Barcelona before his arrival.

In a book he also says he wouldn't place Neeskens in the same bracket as Krol, Van Hanegem, Cruijff, Gullit, Van Basten, Koeman and Bergkamp and - notwithstanding Johan-II the qualities and achievements - I actually agree with him there. He said a couple years ago: "If you were to give marks to people in the game, say give them 10/10 for their playing careers and then marks out of ten as a coach. Some of the great 10/10 players only got 2/10. I'd say he got 10/10. As a coach and player, he definitely has been the outstanding soccer coach and player combined. He obviously had a good knowledge of the game and a good philosophy on the game."

 

UEFA 'golden player' Van Himst said this in 2017 (google translate):


Van Himst: "He can't match Pélé, Di Stefano and Cruijff"

Meanwhile, Paul Van Himst is 73, but more than lucid enough to follow everything. The perfect age also to span just about all football generations, especially because he has competed against the greatest of the earth, both as a player and as a trainer. "Ronaldo the best? Pélé, Di Stefano and Cruijff are still a step higher."

Who can add his statistics can not go wrong. In that respect, Cristiano Ronaldo is one of the best on planet football. But of course the game contains more than just statistics. That is why the discussion has raged for years about who is the best football player ever. Paul Van Himst does not deny that Cristiano Ronaldo now has more than his place in this discussion, but he still prefers a number of others.

Leader figures
Di Stefano, Pelé, Cruijff, Maradona and Messi are the names that come back again and again and that is also what the quadruple Golden Shoe is drawing from. Number one on the spot: Pélé. "Because he could do everything. He was much more than just someone who knew the goal. He was a striker, a game distributor and a symbolic leader in one person. For me he stands out. The very best."

Just one half-step below the Brazilian all-rounder, Van Himst puts the glorious Alfredo Di Stefano, the Argentine-Spanish footballer who helped Real Madrid win the European Cup of Champions champions five times in a row in the 1950s. "Many will have already forgotten him and there are many who never knew him to play, but I highly rate Di Stefano. He was much more than an attacker who could score. He pushed his team forward, a real leader . "

And for the same reason Johan Cruijff also gets an advantage. "Already a lot more individualistic, but still someone who could lead his team more than Ronaldo. In addition, he was able to do everything that Ronaldo can. He was also fast, had an excellent free kick in the feet if he wanted to, and also scored as if it were nothing. I leave his admirable creativity as coach, thinker and executive out of consideration." Three to see for Van Himst, three footballers also against whom he has actually been on the field.

"Ronaldo? For me, that is someone you don't see in the first ten minutes, as in the final against Juventus, but who you feel he will score on his first chance. And his second goal: that feeling to you have or don't have to be in the right place at the right time, and Zidane gives him a kind of free role, where he can swarm out and be even more dangerous, but he remains an individualist pur sang and is much less involved with the team. That's why he's not the best ever for me. "

And that's why he estimates players like Maradona and Messi a little less. "Put them on the same level as Ronaldo. Beautiful footballers, but especially individualists who can force something on their own."

It is the estimate of someone who is entitled to speak. After all, he has encountered countless talents as a player and as a trainer. "I still think of Bobby Charlton, Eusebio, Beckenbauer, Platini ... But I categorize them under the heading sub-top. Cruijff, Di Stefano and Pelé: they are still a step higher. And then Cristiano Ronaldo may still dominate football if he does now, he cannot match them. Unless he starts scoring from impossible angles and positions. I'm sorry. "

https://www.hln.be/de-krant/van-himst-aan-pele-di-stefano-en-cruijff-kan-hij-niet-tippen~ae8e09b6/

 

@PDG1978

The 1 vs 1 videos from here (which is interesting to see) also linked to this one:



This was in 1993 and Maradona was (still) in Sevilla. In this video he says he'd put Di Stefano at number one, "because he is from my own country", while Pele and Cruijff are the best he has seen so far.

He is also asked how he sees the Three Tulips. He responds he'd place Rijkaard at number one. He says something like (helped by the subtitles, his accent isn't always helpful for me): "I say Rijkaard because players as Van Basten and Gullit have everything in their locker. But I find Rijkaard the best. Frank has everything a footballer can wish for. He is strong in the air and has endurance. It is a good colleague and very sympathetic. If I'm allowed to chose I'd take Rijkaard. Van Basten and Gullit are of course greats, but for me Rijkaard. Van Basten is number two. But Ruud I find a nice guy, likable person, I like him a lot."

 

As an aside, this is also a peculiar one:


Romario says here that after several years at PSV he wants to play in Portugal, Italy or Spain before he gets too old. The host replied quickly with "Portugal is of course easy for you". I found that an interesting answer, that he names Portugal there. Of course, it wasn't so long ago that these teams made it to European Cup finals (1987,1988 and 1990).

The interviewer also says to him he is the best player of the country. Romario replies he "honestly" doesn't think so and Bergkamp is the best footballer. The interviewer replies back to him in disagreement. This is in his last PSV season and of course by that point Bergkamp had already made it to three continental finals, winning the most recent one (and topscorer at euro 92). Romario was on his way to a 2nd European Cup topscorer title.

 

Haha, I looked further and there is also another section (1:30):

--- "England vs Netherlands for the World Cup qualification. What will it be? I ask it to the best player."
Romario: "The 2nd best."
-- "Alright."
Romario: "It will be difficult and I hope to see Holland at the World Cup, but everyone knows it can be a difficult match. Maybe 0-1, Netherlands wins this one off."
-- "0-1, and who scores the goal?"
Romario: "Bergkamp."

(Romario was close here)

 

I reckon Neymar would be pretty humble too if you talk to him, but if he had won the WC in 2018, or wins it in 2022, you bet his attitude will probably change abit.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but appears to me Romario his mood defines his opinions to an extent. Here he looks reasonably humble too (and says to Brazilian television MvB would make his all-time XI indeed). Thus sometimes, after his world cup win, he says something like he is one of the five best ever, but at other moments he looks with high appreciation (with comments on movement, technique, tactical level etc.) to other players like Laudrup as best he played with etc. He has also said somewhere that he didn't do enough for his own liking in the Champions League.

edit: it is around the one minute mark. As for the other video, it was more like I found it interesting he indicated Portugal as playing option, and also him coming close to predicting the 1993 World Cup qualifier!

 

I have found a 1990 ranking by the IFFHS where the best players and teams of the period 1956-89 were chosen, the same period of the Super Ballon d'Or.

The results were quite surprising both in the individual classification and in the team classification. In the article they explain that the poor assessment of Di Stéfano and Puskas is due to the fact that only results from 1956 onwards are taken into account and these two players have a large part of their careers in an earlier period.

The list by player was as follows:

1- Beckenbauer
2- Platini
3- Cruyff
4- Eusebio
5- Müller
6- Rummenigge
7- Suárez
8- Charlton
9- Di Stéfano
10- Kopa
11- Rivera
11- Yashin
11- Keegan
14- Charles
15- Van Basten
16- Puskas
16 -Best
16- Schuster
19- Gullit
20- Elkjaer Larsen

The list by team was as follows:

1- Bayern
2- Juventus
3- Real Madrid
4- Milan
5- Barcelona
6- Manchester United
7- Internazionale
8- Hamburg
9- Ajax
10- Benfica

The team list seems very bad to me, Liverpool do not appear, Ajax only 9th, Barcelona is 5th when their achievements during the 1956-89 period were very far from those of other teams, Real Madrid only 3rd ...

http://memoria.bn.br/docreader/DocReader.aspx?bib=030015_11&Pesq=MASTERS beckenbauer&pagfis=6652

 

Whehe, I'm not surprised at all...

It is like that The Guardian list of this year...

This was a worldwide France Football vote in 1990, the same year:


https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/old-great-players-lists-esp-1950s-1970s.2038892/page-3

 

Based on what you have commented, I have been looking at the possible IFFHS scoring system in this classification and I think it fits quite well to give 10 points to the winner of the Ballon d'Or, 9 to the second classified and so on until giving 1 point to the tenth classified.

The classification that I get is quite similar to the one they publish, although there are some small differences (which may surely be due to the fact that I have wrongly recorded the results of the golden ball).

I get the following (possible score given by IFFHS):

1- Beckenbauer 84 points
2- Platini 67 points
3- Cruyff 66 points
4- Eusebio 54 points
5- Müller 50 points
6- Rummenigge 48 points
7- Suárez 46 points
8- Charlton 41 points
8- Di Stéfano 41 points
10- Kopa 40 points
11- Keegan 36 points
12- Yashin 35 points
12- Rivera 35 points
14- Charles 29 points
15- Van Basten 28 points
16- Best 27 points
17 -Puskas 26 points
17- Schuster 26 points
19- Elkjaer Larsen 24 points
20- Gullit 23 points

As you can see, most of the results coincide with the only differences of:

- Charlton is 8th and Di Stéfano 9th in the IFFHS classification but I get a tie

- Keegan, Yashin and Rivera tie in the IFFHS classification but it comes out to me that Keegan would have one point more than the other two players.

- Best, Puskas and Schuster tie in the IFFHS standings but it comes out to me that Best would have one point more than the other two players.

- Gullit is ahead of Elkjaer Larsen in the IFFHS classification but it is the other way around for me (by a single point).

I said, the differences may be due to the fact that I have taken the data wrong or that there is an error in the wikipedia in Spanish, which is where I got the information. By the way, I have only taken data from these 20 players who are the ones that appeared on the IFFHS list, if some other player based on these criteria could reach the TOP-20 I have not taken it into account.

This explains perfectly why this classification is so bad, as you well indicate they will have taken the Ballon d'Or scores to classify by teams and that is why such strange results come out.