France 1998 vs France 2018

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by babaorum, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Pound for pound, which team is better ?

    There are a lot of similarities : same defensive, counter-attacking approach of the game. Same mix of experienced players and young guns.

    What are the differences ? In which areas the 2018 team matches or surpasses the 98 one (assuming there is any) ?
     
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  2. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    Voy a compararlos teniendo en cuenta la jerarquía individual en ese momento.

    Barthez > Lloris
    Thuram > Pavard
    Desailly > Umtiti
    Blanc = Varane
    Lizarazu > Hernandez
    Deschamps = Kanté
    Karembeu < Pogba
    Petit = Matuidi
    Djorkaeff < Mbappé
    Zidane > Griezmann
    Guivarch < Giroud

    Leboeuf = Kimpembe
    Vieira > N'zonzi
    Pires = Dembele
    Henry > Fekir
    Trezeguet > Thauvin
     
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  3. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    Very similar indeed.
    98 had a stronger midfield. But 2018 has a stronger attack.
     
  4. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Yes that sounds good to me. Petit certainly had a better WC than Matuidi however. And despite his blunder Lloris impressed me more than Barthez (who was certainly a superior GK but who had relatively little to do in WC98).
     
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  5. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Yes, indeed. In my opinion the defensive unit makes the 98 team better. The 2018 backline was solid but doesn't come close to the 98 one (bar Varane). The side-defenders -Pavard and Hernandez- in particular look relatively pale compared to their 98 counter-parts (Thuram and Lizarazu), both defensively and offensively.
     
  6. Spartak

    Spartak Member

    Nov 6, 1999
    Philly
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Overall the 98 French team is better. It was a more experienced squad that didn't give away many chances in the whole tournament. Also, the quality of World Cup 98 was higher than 2018. Brazil, Netherlands, Italy, & Argentina were better than any team that played in World Cup 2018 imo.
     
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  7. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    What's interesting is that neither team were probably at their peak yet. For the 1998 side, the Arsenal contingent of Henry, Pires, and Vieira would improve even further. Zidane as well, I think got even better. So did Trezeguet.

    This France team is very young. They can potentially dominate international football ala Spain 2008-2012. They have the profiles to do so. All of their key players will only get better. Is there any doubt whatsoever that Kante, Pogba, Mbappe, Varane, and Umtiti will not be among the best in the world at their roles (for Mbappe, maybe best player, period) in 2020? I think their fullback options will improve as well if the natural options like Mendy can establish themselves. The only starting player they might have to replace by then are Giroud and Matuidi. Matuidi is not so difficult, with Tolisso already waiting in the wings. Finding a forward who can do for them what Giroud did will be more difficult, so perhaps a change in style for the front three might be more apt.
     
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  8. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I think Deschamps will have to find a way to make a more balanced team between offense and defense. That's what Lemerre did after the WC98 victory and the result was a more dominant team in EC2000 indeed. Giving Mbappé a more central position on the field might be the key.
     
  9. Vegan10

    Vegan10 Member+

    Aug 4, 2011
    #9 Vegan10, Jul 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
    Off memory I’d maybe add England and Croatia to that list as well.

    France 2018 may be a deserved champion (although favored by a corrupt official in the final) but I’ve seen more talented sides like the 1986 team not win it.

    Edit: the real final was probably played in Saint Petersburg. Had Belgium taken their chances in the first half we’d probably not be having this discussion right now.

    As for the question itself: France 1998 and it’s not even as close as some believe.
     
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  10. Spartak

    Spartak Member

    Nov 6, 1999
    Philly
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd probably agree. A young talented England squad that could have gone further if it wasn't drawn with Argentina in the Round of 16. It shows you the difference in quality in the 2018 & 1998 tournaments. I don't think there is one player on the current England squad(including Harry Kane) that would get into that 98 team's first 11.

    Croatia was a good team as well. Although they were probably 4 years past their peak. I would have loved to see that squad allowed to compete at the 94 WC. The same could be said for Serbia/Yugoslavia.
     
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  11. Varnagel

    Varnagel Member+

    Nothing
    Sweden
    Jun 4, 2017
    Both Giroud & Guivarc'h were equally shite in front of goal.

    They scored a grand total of 0 goals when France won these WC-tournaments.
     
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  12. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Difference is Guivarch was never a key member of the starting XI. Giroud on the other hand, once he was given a spot has been undroppable for Deschamps due to all the little things he brings to the team, allowing the other more talented players to flourish. That is exactly his job. If he didn't execute his role so well, why would he have been such an important player for Deschamp?

    It's very difficult for Giroud to score lots of goals for France since they kind of football they play do not result in his type of goals, so Giroud is there mostly for his targetman services.
     
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  13. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It didn't work so well in the opening game. Deschamps had to bring in Giroud.

    It'll be interesting to see if Mbappe can develop into a complete central forward by 2020. Personally, I think it's quite unlikely. Mbappe is simply not as good as Cavani at the role, so he probably won't get to play the role week-in-week-out at PSG.
     
  14. Varnagel

    Varnagel Member+

    Nothing
    Sweden
    Jun 4, 2017
    #14 Varnagel, Jul 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
    By the same reasoning of yours, Guivarc'h was definitely an instrumental piece of France's World Cup 1998 XI by literary filling the same function as Giroud did to helping other bigger names (Zidane, Djorkaeff etc.) to shine. Aimé Jacquet’ (France's NT coach at the time) wouldn't have kept Guivarc'h as the undisputed starter if the latter didn't do what he was tasked for.

    Giroud had a lots of goalscoring chances throughout the tournament where he kept misfiring, just like Guivarc'h.

    Although Guivarc'h & Giroud sucked ass in front of goal, although they were actually decent by contributing in other aspects of the game. They're on the same level based on their respective WC-tournament.
     
  15. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Pires should be superior because Dembele haven’t done anything relevant. I would rate Kante above Deschamps otherwise your list is fine.
     
  16. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    No doubt Giroud should have done better with scoring. I think he missed like 13 shots in this tournament? Pretty bad indeed.

    However, you're wrong to think that Guivarc'h and Giroud were equally rated by their manager.

    Guivarch was subbed out in the 26th minute in the opening game, yet France went on to win the game 3-0. France won the next game 4-0 without him playing. In round of 16 he was a sub. In R8, SF, and final, he was subbed out at around the 60th minute.

    Compare that to Giroud whose absence in the first game resulted in France attacking so poorly Deschamps had to make the change. Giroud played the full 90min in the remaining 2 group games plus the R16 and R8. He was subbed out in the dying minutes (around 85th minute) of the SF and Final.
     
  17. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    For some reason, I don't remember how well Deschamps played at the 1998 WC very well. Kante has been one of France's best (or at least, consistently good) player in this tournament for sure though. Too bad he didn't have the best final.
     
  18. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He played with a stomach bug.
     
  19. victorcalello38

    Feb 28, 2017
    Club:
    Montevideo Wanderers FC
    Keep in mind that I valued the players at the time, and Pires in 1998 was not the star that years later would be at Arsenal FC
     
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  20. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    [
    Guivarch was unlucky enough to get injured early in the opening game, but I think he was the unquestionable number 1 in Jacquet's mind, ahead of Dugarry and Trezeguet.
     
  21. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I don't think it's correct to compare Giroud and Guivarch.
    They were actually not the same kind of player : Guivarch was a pure goalscorer. He was fast, he could kick the ball with the both feet and with the head. Very similar to Papin in some ways. Giroud has more work-rate but is not as clinical as Guivarch was.
    Now their goalscoring recording the WC is similar : 0 goal. But you have to put things into perspective : Guivarch was roasted after a crazy season during which he scored 45 goals in 52 games. Compare that to Giroud who played 2500 minutes less...
    Besides, Guivarch was not only out of form but he got injured early in the WC and finally played relatively few minutes : 239 minutes vs about 550 minutes for Giroud. Guivarch scored 0 goal -that's a bad recording indeed- but he played no more than 2 games 1/2... Scoring 0 goal in 2 games 1/2 is finally pretty common for any striker.

    Now in Giroud's case, it's fair to say that his defensive game was excellent and that he was involved in 3 goals (if I remember properly), even if he didn't score himself.
     
  22. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I see Mbappé as a better version of Thierry Henry. What Henry did -starting his carreer as a winger and then moving to a more central position- I think Mbappé can do it too (assuming he's given the chance). I think he's somewhat wasted as a winger.
     
  23. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Mbappe would turn out to be a complete attacker in my opinion. He’s probably the most dangerous counter attacking player currently so I doubt he’s being wasted as a winger.
     
  24. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Henry didn't have a breakout season as a forward until he was 22, so Mbappe has 3 years to realize the same destiny. Would be grand if he can do it a year earlier, just in time for EURO 2020.

    We'll have to see if Mbappe can really become better than Henry. Henry developed leaps and bounds during his 20s, and Mbappe's not even 20 yet!

    Much of it will come down to luck. Henry would have been a what-if, an Anelka, if he stayed in Juventus. Fortunately, he had Wenger to help develop him into the world's most dangerous forward.

    Mbappe will need the same type of luck. I don't think he needs to transform into a forward so soon. He's learning a lot playing the role he is, which will make him a more complete forward if he finally makes the transition. He's also learning from Cavani, one of the best no.9s in the world in recent time. That's a luxury not many teenagers get.

    Mbappe is well set to have a better career than Henry though. This French team can dominate for the next 4 years ala Spain 08-12, given their age profile. Henry also never stood much chance at UCLs given his manager was Wenger. Hopefully, Mbappe can win a few UCLs as his team star. Lastly, if he can overtake Henry's scoring record for France, that would really cement his place.
     
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  25. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He’ll become far better than Henry. Mbappe has the determination, work ethic and talent to become the best player in the world and most probably a future GOAT contender(already won the WC at such a young age displaying solid performance and now that will motivate him even further to become the best).
     

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