Yea i agree with some of this but with benzema a lot more intangibles have to be taken into consideration Higuain lead the line for a very good but not great napoli and broke the all time single season record in italy Benzema could never do this or get close to doing this (when in doubt you refer to the NT record and france is a world class national team) 27 goals in 87 international appearances for an out and out number 9 is shocking (even worse for a NT as france) As a finisher (the primary role of a striker)he is worse than at least 25 players of the last 15 years His 60 CL goals as second choice striker are probably his defining scoring achievement Even then a disproportionate have come in groupstage matches as a general rule The officially recognised best player of a top 5 European league should be classed as world class In 07/08 benzema was maybe the second best CF in Europe That should be enough to class as WC In 2011/12 he scored 30 goals I think in all comps This was however one of the highest scoring seasons ever Hunterlaar almost got 50 RVP got 38 Falcao almost got 40 Rooney got 35 And others I can't recall before we even get to Ronaldo or Messi So 30 goals in most eras meets the threshold of world class but in 2011/12 he unfortunately falls short
Higuain shined for Napoli due to Sarri's brilliant system and never was close to reach that level again. When Higuain left Juve, Dries Mertens replaced him in the following season. He scored 28 goals and finished 2nd place in Serie A's top scorers. Keep in mind that Mertens was previously a decent winger who was converted into a striker by Sarri. Also, you're wrong about Napoli not being a great team back in 2015-16 season considering they had guys like Koulibaly, Ghoulam, Jorginho, Hamsik etc. They became even better in next following two seasons by grabbing 86 points & finished 2nd place with 91 points respectively. Which was a club record in both of these occasions. France's national team were definitely not world class after World Cup 2006. They failed to get out from the group stage in Euro 2008, WC 2010 & Euro 2012. Mostly because of France's shitty coaches in Domenech/Blanc and how weak France's personnel was. Having that said, Benzema was decisive against Ukraine in 2nd leg of WC-playoff and was one the absolute best players in World Cup 2014. It's a shame on how he missed out from playing with guys like Pogba/Griezmann in their prime + Golden Generation. Why are you comparing Benzema with guys like Huntelaar/Falcao/RVP etc. since all of them were the primarily scorer for their respective clubs back in 2011/12 season? It doesn't make sense at all. Benzema's is 6th highest scorer in Real Madrid's history with 222 goals and has the 5th highest goal-ratio. Which is ridiculously impressive despite not being an out-and-out striker and had to accommodate for Cristiano & a healthy Bale in most of his seasons at Real Madrid. Never mind that Benzema took 0 free-kicks and less than handful of penalties while being regularly subbed out.
This is exaggerations You say benzema is the 6th highest scorer for Madrid He's been at the club 10 years Suarez became the 4th highest scorer in Barcelonas history in 5 seasons Free kicks aren't for everyone (not for CR too after 2013 in case you say im biased) Benzema has no right to take a FK since he hasn't learned how to take them Even if CR,james,bale did not play for Madrid he still wouldn't be considered for set piece duties I did not say was just a average or good player He is a very good player who can appear to be world class in moments as in 07/08 15/16 18/19 Other seasons had patches of world class form and others were downright horrible 09/10 12/13 for example This is just semantics Napoli was never a great team since Maradonas 2nd scudetto (you could say winning 1 time is luck like verona but not twice) Present a source that listed napoli as a top 5 team in Europe during 15/16 A great team is real Madrid, Barcelona, bayern,juventus,Manchester City under pep, atletico Madrid from a few seasons back A very good team is napoli under sarri, dortmund under klopp,seville under emery, Tottenham under pochettino etc There is no guarantee with the same support cast as higuain in napoli that benzema would produce even remotely the same end product (especially in a league format-not CL where higuain was always a flop and benzema better) For the NT, as the focal point of the attack benz has an inferior record and gpg ratio to higuain, aguero....giroud
Suárez is a pure #9 who happens to be the main goalscorer for Barca. He's a different player with different role in Barca, why compare him with Benz? Benzema took free-kicks at Lyon, it's not like you're forgetting like that. He just doesn't have an opportunity to get goals from FKs. And he's proven to be great as the main goalscorer, you're wrong. Made 30 goals and secured a CL-qualification for Real Madrid this season. Nobody for RM score LaLiga goals in double-digits outside Benz. Otherwise, he has been reliable for scoring 20 goals or more in majority of his seasons at Real Madrid as the 2nd/3rd option. The likes of Giroud, Higuain & Aguero are playing in stacked national teams with significantly better supporting cast. Which Benzema never really enjoyed expect his last few years.
Are you french? Here you are moving the goal posts and making non factual statements Suarez is a 9 who certainly isn't a conventional one(this is a player who after all is known for doing alot of selfless and unglamorous work for the benefit of the team) You are failing to contextualise benzemas goalscoring record Consistently scoring 20+ goals for a team that scores upwards of 160 goals year in and year out Is just not as impressive as you are portraying it to be. Raul did this too in a similar role in which he was tactically sacrificed for the benefit of R9(or RVN) Raul did not or seldomly took penalties/FKs and his team did not score upwards of 160 goals every single year If you want to compare benzema to post peak Raul (2003-)thats fine For him to compare to peak raul than he has to improve his CL KO record I guess you are french so will not budge here So lets agree to disagree If it makes you happy I rate mbappe as the best European performer over the duration of this entire club season. Dethroning Cristiano Ronaldo as Europes elite performer since 2007 It is nothing short of phenomenal that a 20 year old runs Messi so close in the golden shoe race(and he does quiet a bit outside of scoring too-Messi contributes more obviously but I just wanted to point out he isn't just a goalscoring phenomenon) IMO A superior player now compared to salah last season no doubt about it
What? Giroud is only a year older than Benzema. Whatever supporting cast he enjoyed, so did Benzema, surely.
I'm not moving the goal-post as I've been very consistent about how ridiculous it's to compare goalscoring numbers between a pure #9 who's the main scorer and someone who's 2nd/3rd option in majority of his career. Scoring around 20 goals or more as a support forward while being a facilitator for Real Madrid's offense is pretty damn great, no matter how you try to minimizing it. As for why Raul's team didn't scored 160 goals because he didn't had a attacking partner like CR7 or wasn't as good as the Portuguese. It's just that simple. Raúl was never prolific in Champions League KO-stage for Real Madrid. The highest he made were 3 goals and it happened only once. Meanwhile, Benzema scored 3 goals in CL KO-stage for RM during 11/12, 13/14 & 17/18. Benzema never played with Prime Griezmann/Pogba, Mbappé, Dembele etc. Current France team are 10000x better compared to how it used to be..
Yes, but he has no one to blame but himself for that doesn't he? That France team needed a facilitator as well, which Giroud have been for them. He helped bring out the best in others, which was why he kept starting games even when not scoring.
Nothing is proven in a court of law so no this is unfair Deschamps has had a hard-on for him since then blocking all attempts of his return to the NT Varnagel The most that can be said is when he was the focal point of attack for the French NT his output was extremely unimpressive It doesn't even matter that giroud supposedly played for a stacked French squad We are talking about giroud here This guy has never been world class (like ever) This is a guy who couldn't buy a goal on a free scoring French squad in euro 16 (the commentators were making excuses talking about his work rate lol) This guy has a superior gpg ratio for France than benzema (and he wasn't always the focal point either) I agreed he was/is underrated for his link up play and playmaking (gary Lineker was out of line with his big mouth saying he was never world class)
Raul is in the top 5 all time KO stage scorers Even arjen "injury prone winger"robben is in the top 10 Benzema is nowhere to be found https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news...s-league-knockout-stage-history/288404?page=9
Podcast by FFT about the list: https://play.acast.com/s/fourfourtwo/football101 Relevant section starts at 13:00
Listened it now. It is not particularly informative but they mention/discuss some omitted players like Redondo or Mauro Silva.
I have seen the 442 article now it's really long and not just a list of names. Actually a pretty decent writeup about the players. The list/order itself is not good though. btw. they explicitly mention that the cutoff for the list is when 442 started which was mid 1994. Yes, I'd say most specifically United players.
Thats exactly what Benzema would offer if he played for them right now. Just as good a facilitator as Giroud apart for the rare flashy one twos Benzema didnt show he can do. I have no doubt they would look even better offensively with Benz. Btw, this French team didnt outperform everyone at the world cup. They won it unconvincingly and if WC was replayed i am not sure they would replicate the success.
In the full issue they name these as the closest to make it: Andy Cole, Van Persie, Campbell, De Bruyne, Effenberg, Robbie Keane, Vialli, Griezmann, Essien, Kane. The write-ups are quite good I agree, just not the order.
Benzema over many of the names on that list is a no-brainer. 10 years at Real Madrid in the most dominant club run of the modern era (4/5 CL) and 3rd all time scorer in CL history. This is an all time great team. Marcelo the best LB of his generation. Kroos - WC winner and 4time CL winner... All flagrant omissions which are downright embarrassing. In a direct comparison, Cristiano should be ahead of Messi as well. Beckham and Bale ahead of Roberto Carlos was a big head-scratcher.
@PDG1978 You might like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/footballhi...r_league_100_peter_schmeichel_14th_june_2019/ In there some gems by other players too. The wonderful moment at 13:02 and such.
There looks to be a good representative collection of impressive saves in there of various types (blocks, reactions with an arm etc), and yeah that kind of quality Bergkamp control/turn/pass move to supply Wright was very successful at that time.
2015/16 antoine griezmann including top scorer award at euro 2016 is the highest peak of a French player of his generation, every bit as good as ribery 2012/13 and definitely not too far behind prime Henry (technically or his output) I think at least 5 different players had very good and equal claims for the 2016 ballon dor Probably the most competitive ballon dor year since 1998 (R9,Bergkamp, Zidane, del Piero were all elite world class that season)
What does not help him is playing for unglamorous Atletico Madrid and also that euro 2016 isn't fondly remembered for its quality. Plus him lacking some career defining moments (so far, maybe that CL bicycle kick goal?) and all those 'The Decision' antics. There seems to be an idea Atletico is more about the team and fighting spirit than (highly paid) individuals. In many ways Griezmann his own work rate and him not being a skilled dribbler or silky retainer disguises the technical capabilities he can show.
Coming back to this after the post from @PuckVanHeel in the best games thread, the position of so many is very hard to gauge. Picking on Dani Alves at 62, he's probably the best club right back ever, quite possibly the best right back in history overall. He merits 62nd place only? I remember putting Djalma Santos in a top 30 of all time list on virtue of being the best right back ever. Shows quite how random some of these things (including my own list) can be.
Good to hear that somebody shares my opinion. Not sure if he's the best ever, but I think he is above Cafu. I think that would be a pretty unpopular among the majority of football fans.
Some have said (Tim Vickery for example) that Cafu was before the 1998 World Cup widely regarded as the weak link of the Brazilian team. Dani Alves really suffers from not being the (homegrown) 'face' of his team, in the way e.g. Xavi, Messi, Puyol (at his own club), Maldini, Lahm were. He's behind six full-backs for the post-1994 period (and I don't count Nesta, Cannavaro as full-back here). I'd like to see an argument for Zannetti (20 places higher). I don't see this. Whatever angle you take. Thuram at 94 also feels low, especially considering the weight they tend to give to national team exploits (for ex. they mention Sneijder's considerable amount of man of the match performances in tournament formats). Each to his own but for me he is the best national team full-back of the lot, though with including the tournaments where he played as a center back. 'Tattoo meastro' Alves his defensive skills have always been underrated (already in Sevilla), just as his ability to play in the inside channels and make the flow of play (especially after 2012, roughly).