For all the whining about our play....

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by ifsteve, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    and yes we didn't play that great. It looks like we will have scored the most goals of any team in group play. So what if our group was weak. So was every group. We scored 7 times and missed two PKs to boot.

    We won our group. We got to evaluate a bunch of different players (please don't start with the well we should have seen more of so and so....there are plenty of those discussions on the other threads.) Was it great soccer? Nope.

    But I would say mission pretty well accomplished.
     
  2. wrench

    wrench Member+

    May 12, 2007
    NYC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  3. Rahbiefowlah

    Rahbiefowlah Member+

    Oct 22, 2001
    Las Vegas
  4. Andy_B

    Andy_B Member+

    Feb 2, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    winning the group and giving every* field player on roster significant minutes had to have been the group stage goal, so yes mission accomplished.

    * Obviously not Saief but the injury prevented that
     
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  5. 6 ft. Leprechaun

    Dec 9, 2003
    Baltimore, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If those were the goals, I'd argue that the bar was set too low. At this time in US soccer, we should be expecting a goal for the team to look organized and play cohesively against these opponents. Which we did not do.
     
  6. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i read the match reports before watching the games cuz i am in europe and cant watch live very easily...and from the comments/reports I was honestly expecting much worse. ...i dont know what people are expecting from (mostly) new players who have never played together before...the full a-team doesnt dominate and put up a lot of shots most games anyway (they are usually more passive than this team has been, tbh) ....so again...what are people expecting?? these performances have been right in line with what i expect from the usmnt.

    doesnt mean that i think none of the criticism is warranted or that i think another "b-team" roster/setup couldnt perfrom much better.....but all things considered a lot of evaluation/info can be gathered from these games and the team got results...so not the worst case scenario, imo.
     
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  7. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    German B close to C team sliced through 4 pretty good teams with minimum problems. Our B team almost lost to Martinique.

    If Germany is the best, what exactly does that make us?What does it say about MLS?

    I think most of us are just coming to grips with the realization that we are falling behind the best when we all thought we were inching closer.
     
  8. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not saying USA played great, but we didn't almost lose to Martinique. In addition to winning, we had more shots on target (11 to 4 according to one site and 10 to 5 according to another site), more corner kicks (11 to 2), and more possession (58% according to one site and 61% according to another site).
     
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  9. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Winning tends to obscure errors. Losing tends to emphasize them. That's natural.

    Watching live, I though the US looked like it was more likely to win than lose (a positive for sure), but also looked slower, sloppier, less coordinated, and more prone to giving up good chances to the opponent than I think the team should have or than I think was reasonable to expect them to look.

    Sky didn't fall, but plenty to be focused on for improvement.
     
  10. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the key thing to me is that this iteration of the "b-team" isnt the only possible version out there....it isnt like these guys who were chosen for the group games were head and shoulders teh clear choices over players who werent picked. in fact, there's a good 10 or so players in mls i would clearly prefer over these guys...thats not even mentioning those in europe....

    so all the people who think this bteam showing means the us has no depth are missing the forest for the trees, imo
     
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  11. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    If I were the coach of the team, the way the group stage played out is almost perfect because you didn't lose any games, AND you have a bunch of stuff to harp on the team about since we didn't play nearly up to where the standard should be.
     
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  12. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good post. And even after Arena has called in 6 new players for the knockout stages look whose is still not there.

    Yedlin, Brooks, Cameron, Woods, Johnson, and whose that other new dude....oh yeah Pulisic. I think this team is deeper than its ever been. Are we top 10 internationally deep? No of course not. But there key is to go look over all various threads on here discussing why so and so should be in the mix over so and so. Shoot there was a lot of discussion on he preliminary 40 man roster.

    As I and others have stated (caveat yes we didn't play that well in the group stage) guys need to recognize how difficult it is to get a group of players who have never or hardly ever played together to all be on the same page in a short two weeks.
     
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  13. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the pool has become deep enough that the way players fit together has become more important than just being slightly better individually and that includes both on and off the field.
     
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  14. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A good point, however... Jogi Low has had a system in place for what, 11 years now? Bruce has been reclaiming this wreckage for a few months. Patience.
     
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  15. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i think its a slippery slope to overvalue off the field stuff...thats what bruce does big time...and its hard to quantify but i think the team suffers for it often....agoos, richie williams zusi omar gonzalez etc...keeping guys in the team cuz they are "cool" or buddies with everyone could be the difference between another player who is 10% better and the difference in wins-losses.....locker room presence might be a good tie breaker if 2 players really were neck and neck...but i think on the field concerns should be at least 95+% of what goes into roster selection.
     
  16. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought the goal was to find a few guys that could help us in qualifying and/or at the big dance. Stating that the big goal was to win the group seems disingenuous to me.

    From that perspective I think the negativity is warranted. The idea would be that even if we played poorly, it was not cohesive and we looked like hot garbage against the likes of Panama and Martinique, at least we would come out of it with a couple dudes making real names for themselves and a case to compete with or supplant some of the fringe guys or old guys on the A team.

    Instead we made the A teamers look like superheroes for the most part. Mission failed.
     
  17. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    slicing through?? eh. 34% possession outshot 16-6 in the final after tying in the group stage? they got a lucky goal and held on to win, imo....they had better tactcs and played smarter but weren't the "better team".

    the toughest team they beat to get to the final was mexico and im pretty the us bteam has beaten mexico before too.

    ...will be interesting to compare how both countries integrate their "b-teams".....
     
  18. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    when i saw the gold 40 man...my first thought was bruce is setting up his a-teamers to keep their spots. he's a loyal guy and i think he pretty much knows who is on his roster to russia.
     
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  19. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    Your expectations are pretty low.

    We are supposed to win the WC in 2026.
     
  20. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    of course winning the wc in 2026 is based upon the expected stregnth of our 12-20 year old players....weighted toward 12-17 year olds (as I understand it). I wouldn't expect many 18 year old players to be ready for 2018 at this point.
     
  21. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did we not do just that? I say Lichaj and Rowe moved up the depth chart for sure and I expect to see them in the next set of qualifying. Dwyer made a bit of a case as did several others. Not sure what you were expecting but I'd say we learned plenty. And we also learned about quite a few who simply aren't there yet. That too is valuable information.
     
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  22. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    We said that exact same thing 10-20 years ago. Reality check, not much progress has been made in the US program (besides for TV and marketing $).
     
  23. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    All that matters is if we make the WC and how far we go. BA's results have been fine so far IMO.

    I think we make it and come in third in our group. If a bunch of things go well, we can make it to knock-outs where we will lose in the first round.
     
  24. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I expected much better performances from some individuals, Rowe and Lichaj didn't disgrace themselves like many of the others, but they didn't set the tournament on fire either and Dwyer is Dwyer, a decent option for our 4th striker.

    If we are being honest the vast majority of us had much higher expectations for some of these guys to show very, very well against part time, journeymen footballers and many of us were left super disappointed.

    You are making it sound like everything went swimmingly and the negativity is ridiculous. No, the optimism is ridiculous and the Gold Cup up until now has been a definite disappointment.
     
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  25. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In my humble opinion...the talent outside Pulisic, the next 10 or so players is at a low point, at least when it comes to mids and attackers. That brings up a number of questions about what it is we're doing.

    We have a larger pool of decent pros than every before but less top tier talent. And sports is a business of what can your difference makers do for you. When you barely have any difference makers it's a problem.

    Whole point of this GC was to find new blood which would impact the A team in Russia. I don't see anything of the like. That's what complaints stem from. Actual results, whether we win or not takes a backseat. Seems Arena didn't like what he saw either, bailed on the plan and decided to go for winning the GC instead on the backs of the vets.
     
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