Flat 4-4-2 Resources ?

Discussion in 'Coach' started by Coach Stew, Nov 19, 2019.

  1. Coach Stew

    Coach Stew Member

    Nov 16, 2015
    Can anyone help find or suggest good 442 resources? Possibly suggestions on your experiences? Maybe not trying to play like Atletico but just an effective way to play it for today's game. Not interested in the 4231 or the diamond. TIA
     
  2. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    #2 rca2, Nov 19, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
    The best thing I ever saw, which is very old now, is a film of Arrigo Sacchi training the Italian national team in preparation for the 1994 finals. Perhaps you know it. It shows the progression of activities that he used to train both attack and defense.

    I know that these were soccer internationals, but the exercises were generic and would work for amateurs too.

    He didn't play catenaccio. This was a generic 442 defending zonally with 2 lines of four and attacking directly with exercises for wing play. Not possession style, counterattacking, but technical.

    This is not specific game plans, but rather generic training putting the team together.

    Personally, I prefer a flexible 433, but that is what I am most familiar with. Honestly, good players solve tactical problems the same way regardless of what "formation" they are in. The "formation" has more to do with which players solve which problems.

    Most of my prejudice against the 442 is from playing on rec teams with lazy fullbacks that don't support, forcing the wing half (me) to play 1v2 the entire match (unless of course the half doesn't play to win the flank battle). I bet you probably have that T-shirt too. ;)
     
  3. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    What age group are you coaching?

    I grew up playing 1442 so that's been my default for my 19U teams in past seasons. I've found that my teams have struggled in two key areas: finding balance between the central midfielders and my two forwards forming a working partnership and playing off each other. Last spring I switched to more of a 14411 to address both issues. Having the second forward drop into a #10 role took some of the pressure off of my dual #8s to get forward, helping with the balance. It also forced him to play a bit behind the #9 and increased the number of opportunities to combine.
     
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  4. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    My men's team, to my dismay, plays a flat 442. It's mostly played incorrectly, so I can tell you how NOT to do it. :D

    Attacking:
    The 2 strikers should play together like they are "roped-in" about ten yards apart always. So they can combine and create 2v1s or overloads.
    The two CMs should, IMO, alternate as playing the #10 or #6 (attacking mid/holding mid) depending on which side of the field the ball is on. My team has some f'n undisciplined CMs who roam.
    I hate the angles created by the 4-4-2.

    Defending
    Low line of confrontation, play 2 banks of 4.
    You can play a high line of confrontation as well, since you have 6 in the front

    If you have specifics, just ask. There's just too much/too many variations.
     
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  5. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    A tangential thought - in the US, how many of the 4 digit formations (2-3-2-3, 3-2-3-2, 4-2-3-1) are used because our kids don't really watch, and the sports they might watch tend to have more static positions? Like i want to play a 4-3-3 but a kid hears "left forward" and doesn't track back, the mids have no idea how to swap, so I morph it to a 4-2-3-1 because "winger or wide mid" imparts some idea that they have defensive responsibilities, and if the mids are relatively static I want two deep for safety sake?

    I 2nd the advice on the Sacchi training vids, you can find them on youtube. Also "the other place" probably has some good stuff in the archives even though it doesn't get much current use.
     
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  6. Coach Stew

    Coach Stew Member

    Nov 16, 2015
    High School girls
     
  7. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    This is exactly it. I never wanted to tell my players that we had 3 forwards because they would think that means they don't have to defend. What I've since learned, and plan to implement this spring, is that our 1433 is a starting point. You take it a step further and say when we're attacking, I want it to look more like a 1244 with the 2/3 pushing up higher, and the 10 combining with the attacking line. Then when we're defending, I want it to look more like a 1451 with the 7/11 tucked in to defend.

    I agree that the kids don't watch enough (or don't know what to watch carefully) to pick up on attacking positions being dual-phased.
     
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  8. stphnsn

    stphnsn Member+

    Jan 30, 2009
    Do you have two forwards who can work well as a pair, playing off of each other? That's essential to making any 2-forward line work. Otherwise, it can be a waste of two players because they each become too isolated.
     
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  9. Coach Stew

    Coach Stew Member

    Nov 16, 2015
    We don't have 11 that understand the game. We hide one here. She can hold the ball up. make a solid pass back to a CM and shoot.
     
  10. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    No. I promise we are grown ass men. We may not play like it, but we are.
     
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  11. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    if you bypass the midfield (no judgement here) AND you have a GK or backs that can hit that long ball, then you can end up with a 4-2-4 or maybe even a 2-4-4. I think the weakness of a flat 4-4-2 is that you can get outnumbered in the midfield easily by a team that knows what it's doing. Anyway, it's high school so you're prob playing against long ball teams mostly on bouncy turf fields—I'd make sure that your players are moving to the vicinity of any ball in the air to create numbers around it and increasing chances for knock downs.
     
  12. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    For high school girls I would think very seriously about 343. Unless you have some players that are good enough for the national team, 442 is not optimal.

    You can coach the 343 so that it requires less running for the winghalves than a 442 or even a 433.
     
  13. Coach Stew

    Coach Stew Member

    Nov 16, 2015
    We've tried this in the past seasons. Either I don't coach it well, or our girls do not get it, or both. We end up running more to account for one less in the back. It is too much to go from defending shape to attack. Most teams play long and this is not good for us. We did"ok" vs. 2 teams that try to possess but they are much better than us regardless. 442 is easy for us. Our wings and FB's are fast, cross country girls who have some experience so we essentially build around that and they understand where to be and tracking back. Our CB's and CM's protect the middle and that's pretty much it. The genesis of the thread was that I am a little uncomfortable giving the Wings, FB's and a Forward cart blanche to just "figure it out". When this breaks down, and it will, I want to have an answer to help them.
     
  14. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member+

    Money Grab FC
    Apr 26, 2012
    So, you mentioned the cm and cb protecting the middle, made me wonder if maybe something like Ancelotti's Christmas Tree (4-3-2-1) might be something
    to consider, which took me here:

    http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/28/zonal-markings-20-teams-of-the-decade-in-full/

    There are a couple of 4-4-2 teams there tht implemented it in different ways, might give you sme ideas.
     
  15. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    I suggest using Anson Dorrance's simple system with a line of 4 midfielders instead of the classic Dutch attacking shape of 3 interlocking diamonds.

    As I understand his system, there is very little adjustment during transitions with the team staying concentrated on the strong side.

    When attacking all three forwards stay closely connected, with the weak side outside mid available to attack the far post. On a turnover, the three forwards counterpress while the weakside mid falls back to the midfield line. The weakside mid then falls back as needed to defend against a long diagonal ball. The key here is that women generally don't have as much power to strike a long diagonal ball as men do, so there is less threat to the back post and more time for the midfielder to drop back when there is a threat. In any event, a fourth back isn't needed unless the back line has shifted to the strong side leaving the back post uncovered or else an opponent is making a run and an additional marker is needed to pick her up.

    Normally a team will counter attack on the weak side, so that your strong side half becomes the weak side half and the one to drop back. If the other outside half had made a run to the far post before your team lost the ball, the counterattack would normally be coming down her side, so she would only be recovering to the midfield line. So most of the time each wide midfielder is only recovering the distance of 1 line, rarely the distance of 2 lines.

    If the counterattack does come attacking on the same flank instead of switching, that halfback won't be far out of position to where a fullback would be, as they would normally be the highest back in a zonal back line.

    Don't know if that made any sense. Hopefully it does.
     

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