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Discussion in 'Korea' started by chook90, Jan 12, 2019.
When do you guys think we should fire Bento?
After we qualify for the world cup. Then hire a korean manager. Rinse and repeat.
Aren't we pulling the trigger a bit too fast here?
We gave Stielike 2 years before someone made a "Uli on trial" thread.
At least give him 1 year before making a thread like this.
Tis a joke thread that is bound to get locked soon, plus @killaorca will reopen the "KNT Gods" thread when it's time to open it. Also, how about a "No" option? it ain't Bento's fault when players like Hwang Eui-jo and Hwang Hee-chan fail to step it up and bury their chances in the final third, whilst Jung Woo-young keeps killing our momentum/build up. Even if we are to fail, Bento won't get fired.
Whoever is training the fullbacks needs to get fired.
It's the players not the coaching staff.
His eye for talent is horrendous ie. he thinks JHS and JWY are studs. He better rethink his player selections going forward or he will be sacked 6-12 months before the 2022 world cup.
time is a flat circle. almost as flat as our faces.
bento dresses better than stielke and resmebles a hollywood star so naturally, koreans will give him more leash.
our players at key positions have been and are inconsistent. some of our best players don't fit the ideal tactical style of the collective. but they have make individual wow plays and we lose focus on just how good the KNT actually is.
our defenders beaten on counter attacks, our midfield "retaining possession" for the sake of retaining possession, our attackers losing their touch in the box, crosses with a success rate of 5%. these are fairly consistent constants that any manager who trains them for a dozen days a year, will not be able to correct.
they perform poorest against lesser sides across different managers.
Considering that literally every manager we've had has this hard on for JHS and JWY surely those guys must be doing something right in training that we can't see? Idk how that justifies their inclusion in a starting XI but w/e..
It'll take some time to get warmed up to the Korean squad. Def an improvement from STY though.
let's give it a little more time. our talent is not good enough to warrant placing all the blame on bento. national team is a different ball game from club. we have individual talent to a certain degree but that's not the only thing that matters when it comes to national squads. bento is still getting to know KNT and what reference pt does he have in the past three months when it comes to picking squad members besides what is being told him or looking at a goal tally list? he needs more time to get to know the kleague and the KNT players, which is why is his contract is 4 years long. hiddink sucked in the beginning too.
players being called up to a national squad is basically like taking SHM and suddenly putting him on West Ham and expecting him to perform miracles. its the same for the remaining 10 players on the pitch. SHM won't have kane eriksen dele dembele, instead he'll have LCY LY KJC who he probably plays with only a few times a year and aren't even close to the quality SHM gets to play with at tottenham. give it like 3 matches and then maybe, hopefully korea can find their rhythm.
in addition to all this, our squad on an individual level looks really weak compared to 2002. i say 2002 because that was our prime and there was a level of trust i was able to put into, say, YSC or HMB to get the job done well. hell, even 2010 was a decent squad.
SHM > most strikers but HSH AJH > HEJ
PJS LEY YSC SKH -> LCY KJC HHC (not even close)
SCG LYP > HC LY
HMB CJC KTY > all defenders, may besides KMJ
what can he do if these players are the options he has?
Wow yo and I told you not to delete my old thread for future use -_-
I can't tell the difference between Bento and Shin. I thought I'd give Bento around 10 games but it's really the same old story, isn't it. That story being an inflexible manager with only one trick up their sleeve.
An outdated tactic: 3 central players up top with wide, offensive fullbacks
In the last 3-4 seasons, we've seen the death of the wing forwards. They were replaced by fullbacks. Using this tactic, Pep Guardiola, for example, dominated the premiership last season. Fullbacks were instructed to play wide and Sane/Sterling were instructed to cut inside the box.
But we have Lee Yong and Kim Jin-su. Neither are good defenders, got pace nor can they put in a cross. Most of the media and the fans have got it wrong by playing blame on Koo and Jung Woo-young. These two central players really have nobody to feed the ball:
UIJO 18 has 2 centerbacks on him at all time. UIJO is instructed to play post-player, unlike a false 9 so he's not coming down to receive passes.
They have Hwang Hee-chan or Lee Chung-yong but they're instructed to play centrally, effectively taking themselves out of the game. Clearly, they cannot dribble through 3 players like Sane and Ki is not David Silva.
So the only option becomes to play the ball wide to Kim Jin-su and Lee Yong. Two players that cannot cross and two players that cannot defend. And two players that do not have the pace and fitness to run back.
So why do we keep playing this system?
Pep Guardiola obviously doesn't know because he certainly doesn't play this anymore. Sane and Sterling are instructed to stay wide and the full backs don't bomb forward anymore. They made it so easy for Liverpool last season - stay back and contain until the fullbacks press forward and counter using City's own game, with Robertson and TAA bombing forward.
My only answer is that much like Shin, Bento is a copy-cat. He is incapable of playing his own game. He is a disciple of world football, which is...rather irrelevant to a team that has no world class players.
An example: Why not the 4-4-2 Diamond?
Playing to our strengths is always hard because we don't have many. But we can play to hide our weaknesses:
We've got really horrible CB's: Any decent center forward could probably stretch our CB player out of position. We've seen it with Soldado in our last WCQ's.
We cannot play play 4 back: Because we got really bad CB's
We cannot "play out of the back": Despite what we think, Ki doesn't play many forward passes
We don't have many wide players that can cross
So, it seems to me an answer to cover the above is a 4-4-2 Diamond
Our DMF can be a third CB: Kimotti Kim or whoever can drop back even further to play sweeper, A La Hong Ming Bao. I'd rather be this player be Koo than Ki, who is truly, truly a bad defender.
Having a dedicated AMF player will help us on the counter. I think Lee Chung-yong is a perfect fit.
Our fullbacks....play defense only.
Son had proved he can play centrally. Let him play post-player, like a traditional 9. He is really bad at playing in between the MF / DF, unless on a fast break.
...But UIJO can play in that space so let him play right beneath Son.
Point being: We need flexibility
And I don't mean Uli-Hitlieke style Kwak Tae-hee #9 shift or some Park Joo-ho wing forward shift. We need a manager to make some sensible choices. I haven't seen this flexibility from Bento yet. If he continues to play this outdated system of having forward, wide fullbacks, I don't think he will be successful.
having rewatched the first two group matches i dont believe bento even had to make significant changes or deviate from the initial game plan to get the team going. koreas early crosses werent working (which looked to have been the plan A) and our players were struggling to penetrate centrally because opposing teams parked a lot of men. just shifting the attacking dynamic by playing right footed forwards on the right and left footed forwards on the left would have meant korea could cross the ball from deeper positions out on the wing or get dead ball situations where they had height advantage. asking hwang euijo to get a little more involved in the build up (as supposed to having him beat the defensive line every play) would have helped as well. if hwang euijo drags a defender out of position, hwang heechan and lee jaesung are both capable of exploiting the space
im willing give him a pass though hes still in his learning phase with the team. maybe he was just naive and had no idea opponents in asia sit back deep against korea. its all about adapting quickly to potential changes. a little limited on what he can do with the current squad makeup but there certainly are necessary changes
what are him and his staff doing in their new paju offices, if not scouting how afc countries play against his team
People are going to be furious if SHM plays against China. I hope Bento doesn't make that mistake.
I wonder how Stielike would've done against Philippines and Kyrgyzstan
Unprecedented losses or draws.
It's the group stages, so Bento will have wanted to see how he fares with his Plan A tactics. We'll see how effective he truly is one we get to the knockout stages. Anyway, he's getting thrown right into the deep end in the madness in these first two matches from the piss poor refs to the parked buses. All he has left to experience to fill the AFC cycle is the leg breakers Kung Fu and the mattress testers from the desert.
If he starts Son against china it will tell us how narrow minded he really is.
There's already a handfull of netizens calling for his head if he starts Son. It wasn't long ago when they were saying not to call for his head so soon whatever the outcome may be, and give him more time, but like usual they quickly pull a 180 with a snap of a finger.
No better than how we looked during those two games, we were far worse during his tenure he set us back 50+ years time.
Don't forget about the endless amounts of backpasses and u-turns to further compliment the terribad performance.