Fiosfan Banned for his Personal Opinion

Discussion in 'Customer Service' started by Bill Archer, Apr 23, 2018.

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  1. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You want somebody to admit it? Fine. I've complained to the mods in the past that his random political comments in the middle of his news collation were out of line for this forum. I've also asked why a poster with so much dislike (if not outright hate) of the league was allowed so much leash in a league forum.

    Now I didn't complain about his sig file, but I do believe it was intentionally politically provoking and unnecessary on a soccer forum. The fact that he was approached by the mods, asked to change it, and refused, is what led to his banning. I have no issue with that. We have long-time posters in this forum who have stated that the sig. made them uncomfortable. The mods needed to do something.

    You got a problem with that @Bill Archer?
     
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  2. Daniel from Montréal

    Aug 4, 2000
    Montréal
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    So what is it that his sig said?
     
  3. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, but if he knew the whole story, his hot take wouldn't be thermonuclear hot. It might even be...tepid.
     
  4. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  5. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Glad you bring this up. I can understand how there can be differing viewpoints on the sig. But to be honest, I can't get up in arms about his banning as he should have been banned for a number of other incidents prior to this. When he returned from his vacation and nearly immediately came into either a US or MLS forum discussing the Concacaf Champions League and trashed Mexican people because of a little tiff on the field (or maybe the incident in the tunnel), I would have banned him on the spot if I were a mod. It was absolutely disgusting what he came into the forum and wrote. I and several others fought back at the time, and I was shocked that he wasn't put on ice then.
     
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  6. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
  7. Rick O'Shea

    Rick O'Shea Member

    Aug 19, 2008
    Please tell me this is a joke, it sounds as if the moderator needs to be banned. Fiosfan has done an excellent job over the years and we want him back!!!
     
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  8. doog

    doog Member

    Jun 11, 2006
    Bill,

    Here's a search term for you to Google: site:https://dailystormer.name "globalist"

    Amongst the results you'll find someone writing for the "Immigration-Globalization Blog" who writes

    "World War II was incredibly complex. However, in the final analysis, WWII was essentially a war between two competing ideologies: Nationalism -vs- Jewish Internationalism/globalism."

    Guess who they think the good guys are? Anyhow, that's from 2011. If your point is that it's been recently that the liberal media has only been banging the drum against "globalist" as anti-semitic hate speech... sure, maybe? But I've known for decades that when you're talking to someone who can quote the Protocols of the Elders of Zion about globalists, you're talking to them about Jews. Maybe you didn't know that, but that doesn't mean those people weren't out there.

    By the way, that's not cherry picked, there's all sorts of vile stuff there for you to peruse if you're interested.
     
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  9. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    For those who did not see it, I don't know if I remember the signature 100% from memory but the ending was something like "Liberals and globalists are the enemy and will destroy America from within."

    "Globalist" is these days an established slur for Jews, and in the context of the signature, which also tapped into an additional, very well-established trope about Jews as an internal enemy, the language left no doubt about its antisemitism.

    If the poster was unwitting about the language he was tapping into, and did not mean to draw the clear implications he was drawing, then he should have eagerly agreed to change his signature.
     
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  10. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Glad you guys re-opened the discussion. I think it's worthwhile for people to have a chat about this.

    I'm sure we're not getting the whole story from Bill, and I think it's unfortunate that this became any sort of broader political discussion and a rather bizarre rant on the evils of recycling. I'm glad we're not talking about what they drink on the International Space Station.

    That said, I'd definitely like to know more of the story here. I'm not sold on "globalist" being anti-Semitic. I looked up the Wikipedia page, and ... well, see for yourself ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalism

    tl;dr -- it's complicated.

    I don't know what else Fiosfan has done. I did see that his TV listings were blatantly plagiarized from Soccer America, which should be addressed.

    And in general, I have to applaud BigSoccer moderators. I've moderated a message board before, and it's not easy. I also always get a kick out of people accusing me and everyone other half-rational person in the world of being MLS shills when they complain about the "censorship" on BigSoccer. Thank goodness for Twitter, where anything goes! (Except that Ted did recently spend a week in Twitter jail, which I found amusing.)

    But what's the story here?
     
  11. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Yeah -- I'm inclined to agree with the ban based on this (and Knave has as solid a track record as you can get).

    If you mean "people in favor of globalization," you can pick a better word than that when questioned. If you insist on sticking with it, well ...

    I'm frankly not happy with the idea of accusing "liberals" of being a traitorous enemy, either. That's not a political opinion. That's just hate designed to *shut down* political discussion. Compare that with superdave's provocative but in no way hateful sig.
     
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  12. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is safe to say this signature was a "final straw" situation with Fiosfan rather than the sole reason for his ban.

    We have 3 fairly firm rules in N&A outside of BigSoccer's standard ToS. The first being that since it is an N&A thread, we are a little stricter on the level of decorum expected in comparison to the other top level MLS forums. The second being that you keep rivalry type digs to your club forums, so no use of "rivalry names" like Fake Salt Lake, New Jersey Red Bulls, Flounders, etc, etc, no mudslinging (unless justified *pointed look at Precourt*), and generally keep it somewhat cordial. Third, keep politics out of the forum.

    Since I've been moderator of the N&A forums, I can honestly say that Fiosfan has been the root cause of most of the moderation I've had to do in the N&A forums. I've had the "silently" edit his posts, remove rejoinders from others to his posts, run interference to get people to stop digging him for his previous posts, etc. We've had several discussions with Fiosfan over his inability to keep rivalries and politics out of his news posts, we've given him warnings, and we have had to tell him to remove clearly objectionable terms from his signature on several occasions. We have given him a lot of rope to run with on this because of the News of the Day posts and the popularity of those threads, but we have been yanking harder on that rope to try and get him in line. His latest signature and unwillingness to change it despite the reasonable objection of others was just the end of a long line.
     
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  13. Mateofelipe

    Mateofelipe Member+

    Mar 10, 2001
    Spokane, WA
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't like bans, especially for stuff in a sig line, but I reluctantly concur with learned Beau.
     
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  14. Sachsen

    Sachsen Member+

    Aug 8, 2003
    Broken Arrow, Okla.
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A long, long time ago, I changed my avatar to some picture and now I can't even remember what it was. I looked through my saved private messages and now I can't find any record of the messages with the moderator. But anyway, the picture was either religious or political, I can't remember which. It was pretty mild overall I thought, but I received a courteous message from a mod asking me to change it; not that they personally had any problem with it but someone had said something and it was potentially divisive. I said sure, no problem, changed it, that was the end of that.

    It's easy to be a peacemaker if you want to be. Sometimes ruffling feathers is good, but stirring up contention day after day is something that is going to land you in trouble eventually.
     
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  15. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    The objection to the Red Cross is they don't let gay men donate blood. The donor questionaire asks if the potential donor is a man who has had sex with another man even once since 1977. Obviously it's probing for HIV risk (the questionaire also asks about intravenous drug use and blood transfusions) but some gay people consider it stigmatizing.
     
  16. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    This is nonsense. While there may be some overlap with the antisemitic BDS movement, by and large the anti-globalization movement is protesting globalism. The folks who show up at WTO meetings aren't the alt-right. Globalists are advocates for more international supervision of people via institutions like the UN, WTO, EU, etc. There's a wide spectrum of people opposed to that and simply calling the sorts of folks who go to Davos, globalists isn't antisemitic. It's simply a reaction to loss of power to elites.
     
  17. POdinCowtown

    POdinCowtown Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2002
    Columbus
    I guess my response would be that offense isn't given, it's taken. It's fine to moderate name calling, especially directed at other posters. Taking offense at a sig line not directed at anyone in particular seems awfully heavy handed. I moderate the politics subforum on the Crew boards and been called lots of names. It comes with the territory.
     
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  18. NashSC

    NashSC Member+

    Nashville SC
    United States
    Jan 3, 2018
    #43 NashSC, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
    This is out of control. Everything is offensive. Grow up and stop ruining my life. And people saying that it isn't the sig but the fact that he didn't change it...that is the same freaking thing. Either way he was not allowed to display his personal opinion.

    Now that liberals have gained control of society they are doing exactly what they fought against for decades...shutting down anything they don't agree with. It just shows that with power comes corruption. The majority rules and silences any dissenters. History repeats itself over and over.

    Censorship by liberals is growing every day and will continue. Everything you disagree with is not fascist and racist and stop trying to convince yourself it is. It makes you look super unintelligent to just yell "racist" every time someone offers a counter thought.
     
  19. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #44 Yoshou, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
    I couldn't disagree with this more.. If the offense is accidental, sure.. Like say, me.. I had no idea of "globalists" anti-semitic roots. So if I had used the term in a comment and been called on it, it could be argued that offense was taken, but not given. But given Fiosfan's wording and the fact we had already asked him to cleanup the signature to remove a reference to Liberals that was a violation of BS's ToS, it is safe to say it was an intentional act to cause offense.

    Well.. Consider that most of Fiosfan's posting is in the MLS parent forums and not in a politics forum.
     
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  20. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This.

    And to add another link:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/the-origins-of-the-globalist-slur/555479/

    MInd, and let me say this as one who does not participate in the fora which fiosfan posted in, but this decision was not done as some knee-jerk reaction. There was discussion, as there always is, amongst the mods as to how to handle the situation, meaning of terms, clarification of the situation from multiple mods, and, as usual, hesitation to hand out a red card. Additionally, as indicated by Sachsen, there was communication with fiosfan on the issue and what he needed to remove/edit/modify prior to the red card being given. All of this is our - the mods - SOP on how to handle these types of situations, and I have participated in many of them over the years, as have several of the mods involved in this situation.

    As for the thread title, well, just because one has an opinion, it does not make it right:

    https://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978

    It should also be noted that superdave is a regular participant in the Politics & Current Events forum.
     
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  21. rocketeer22

    rocketeer22 Member+

    Apr 11, 2000
    Oakton,VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #46 rocketeer22, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
    This is my general understanding of the modern use of the term particularly in light of world capital cities that host G7 summits, etc. (Edit: Well, I guess the World Economic Forum in Davos was a better example).
     
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  22. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #47 BalanceUT, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
    Victim blaming? Excellent (not).

    If he had said, "Globalism undermines the wages of working men and women and individual liberty" That would fit closer to the notion of the word not being anti-semitic. But, once the term is associated with 'enemy within' phrasing, that is clearly anti-semitism because of the generations-long history of that phrasing being used as a rallying cry by those on the hateful political right.
     
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  23. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The term "globalist" isn't anti-Semitic any more than using him/her is sexist because they are "incorrect pronouns."

    What I learned about globalism is from an economic perspective when I was in college (late-2000's, so a not-so-distant past) and from authors such Thomas Friedman. The idea behind of globalism is the inter-connectivity of commerce around the world is inherently good, and that global competition via the capitalist system generally benefits mankind as a whole in the long run.

    However, one of the primary criticisms of globalist principals is that the aforementioned benefits are not distributed evenly, and that one's benefit seems to often come at the expense of another's. In addition, globalism is also now being used as an excuse to supplant the authority/sovereignty of the nation-state, so you get a double whammy of people being economically disenfranchised as well as losing their ability to democratically influence their situation in order to improve things. This is the part where various political movements on both the left and right end up making strange bedfellows.

    Where the Jewish thing comes from is only from the fringe on the far-right, who are already anti-Semitic to begin with. They're connected by association, because both are inherently things the far-right is against, and in their view are interconnected. Well, it's actually a little more complicated than that, but its probably not really worth getting into here, and is largely beside the point.
     
  24. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #49 superdave, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
    "Globalists" + "Destroy from within" = anti-Semitism.

    You don't need a Ph.D. in European history to know that.

    Wow, was that really it? And people are DEFENDING him? Aye yi yi.
    I did not know that.
    1. It's much more common overseas than here, but let's not pretend the left can't be anti-Semitic.
    2. WTO protestors aren't talking about "destroying America from within." They aren't just talking about America, and they're not talking about "from within."
    I can't wait till we round all y'all up and force you to have gay muslim abortions.
     
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  25. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    Don't drink beer but like cheese
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is a difference between being using a term like stupidface (or what ever term, and I've been called plenty, myself) and a term which is associated as hate speech and linked to racism or antisemitism. And if somebody does not realize the term is hate speech in some way, that is fine as long as they change their wording to indicate what they mean. And, for what it's worth, he is not the first poster to have his sig modified, or experience some consequence due to his sig.
    As stated, this was not a knee-jerk reaction. The issue had come to light, and there was discussion. fiosfan is welcome to have an option that he has an issue with liberals, as are you. But when it comes to the terminology he used, it was pointed out to him what the problem was, and what he needed to remove/edit/modify because so that he could continue posting.
     
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