Financial problems of Ecuadorian Clubs

Discussion in 'Ecuador - Clubs' started by Luigi408, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Hi all,

    Can we discuss the financial situations that Ecuadorian futbol teams are going through? To me this seems very important. The reason is because it seems like many of the teams are having a hard time recuperating money from ticket sales. There are hardly any fans going to the stadiums at all. SD Quito is broke and cannot pay their players and coach for months! Same thing goes on at El Nacional, and even my favorite team Liga de Quito is also having less and less fans attend their games.

    To people that know more about this situation. Why is this happening? Is it security reasons? Ticket prices? Ecuadorian just don't care about futbol anymore?

    It's sad to read that players cannot pay their bills because teams aren't paying them. There should be strict policies for teams that cannot pay. If this isn't fixed soon it will tear the Ecuadorian league apart IMO. Discuss.
     
  2. Balam

    Balam Red Card

    May 30, 2013
    Club:
    Jaguares de Chiapas FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Saludos amigos Ecudorianos.

    Nah estan bien. Trust me it could be worst. No creo que estan tan jodidos como los Arjentinos. Ellos si son unos autenticos muertos de hambre. They launder money to fund their futbol yet they still can't pay their players, transfers fees or bills.
     
  3. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    The issue is the salary that is paid to these players. Just a few days ago when Emelec played Sport Huancayo, the coach from Sport Huancayo said that the highest paid player on that team got paid $10,000 a month while a player from Emelec most likely gets between $40-60,000. He was making a comparison between both teams and said, it's tough competing with a team that has quality players vs. their team that has little to no quality.

    If you rewind back to 2007, name some players in the league that broke salary records or transfer fee records. You probably can't. After 2008, ecuadorian futbol changed in a good way and in a bad way. Starting with Barcelona's $10 million dollar investment on their squad in 2008. Now $10 million to Barcelona probably isn't as much as it was back in 2008. They probably spent numbers close to it in these last two years. Then imagine the salaries these guys get. Diaz, Arroyo, Nahuelpan, just to name a few. I wonder how much Banguera, Matias Oyola, Paredes, Campos, and Erazo get (we are talking about 2 team captains and 3 NT players who are STARTERS, not just subs...well besides Banguera). Nahuelpan to my knowledge got paid $70,000 a month in LIGA. Liga purchased him for $2.5 million. Liga also purchased Carlos Luna for $1.5 or 2 million. Before 2007 do you remember players like that coming to the league? Carlos Luna came as a top goal scorer in none other than the Argentine league. Nahuelpan came back from the Spanish league w/ a good goal scoring history in his previous clubs.

    If you think about it, lots of foreigner players want to come to our league now more than ever despite these issues b/c they know the salary is good. Look at Fabian Carini. Could you have imagined him playing in D.Quito even 2 years ago? Hell to the freakin NO! How about Pablo Zeballos going to Emelec? I heard a rumor out there that he got paid even more than Nahuelpan did in Liga. That's a TON of money. To think Emelec even considered bringing a player back to south america from the RUSSIAN league (one of the best paying leauges in the world right now) is just insane. That's a huge investment. Well, at least Emelec and Liga can actually pay these guys on time b/c their finances are straight, but i can't say that about the rest of the clubs in ecuador.

    I'm surprised how D.Quito got a NT player like Luis Seijas (venezuelan) to come play for them even with their bad financial reputation. I'm pretty sure Seijas was playing somewhere in Europe before he came to D.Quito this semester.

    Wasn't Wilder Medina from BSC playing for Santa Fe (one of the semi finalist of the Copa Libertadores) just a few months ago? These guys gotta be getting paid big bucks to be going to Ecuador over other leagues.

    The main thing that's hurting lots of these teams IMO is the salary that is being paid to lots of these players in the last 5 years.
     
  4. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Wow that is a lot of $$$, but also the fans not showing up is an issue. I don't know why but you cannot support a team with no ticket sales.
     
  5. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 21, 2004
    Gainesville, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    It's all systemic, guys. If you break things down: it makes a lot of sense.

    Ecuador is a small country, with an even smaller consumer market for anything- especially futbol. While Barcelona might say it has over half the country as a fan base, not everyone is buying into the system- and it's obvious...they cannot sell-out their stadium, but they do travel well (no funds for Barcelona from this). Median incomes in Ecuador are not at levels to sustain higher ticket prices, so the money coming in from ticket sales is looking at general prices on average between 5-10 dollars. Adding insult to injury, we have become used to these prices and will definitely need to have a better understanding of higher ticket prices equating to more stable finances for the club's bottom line. Honestly, tickets need to be more expensive, but we know the fans will protest...if they've been up in arms about a 1 cent or 5 cent increase on toll roads, imagine what the reaction would be to our national past time that isn't even a core concern for the average family. Ticket prices are only meant to support the cashflow, but not anchor it. Then you have TV rights, which were lucrative when teams were able to negotiate deals, but with the current system in place it's having an adverse effect on finances. Even with "big" contracts, it's still plain as day to note that our country is small, and the potential to get more money from TV deals funded through advertising funds as having a pretty clear ceiling. 13-14 million people = smaller reach. The other issue is that many teams are straddling heavy debt- case and point: Barcelona. Their $10 million team was funded privately, and through financing, which we could have expected to pay itself off with runaway success of the team and a few transfers- that team didn't do anything and was a massive investment failure. I think Barcelona has over $7 million in debt years after this decision and others before it. Mismanagement is another one, and poor planning/politics plays a big role- the execs want to get paid before the players, and the illegality of their operations needs to be pointed out. If D. Quito or El Nacional, two teams notorious for backed salaries and bonuses, were to actually be indicted or charged with the accounting lapses and abuses that we know exist, they should be allowed to play until monitored/arbiter-based plans can be implemented. Adding to this pickle, the FEF is responsible for continuously allowing the big teams like Barcelona to cut these insanely short-sighted deals that are more "patches" to the massive money gap than finding substantive solutions to this crisis. Transfers bring windfalls for many years, but sometimes, as we've seen, the outside forces of foreign clubs that need to meet financial payout obligations are not doing so in a timely manner...and FIFA/regulators are so ineffective at actually following through because the process is so convoluted and long. Some teams are STILL owed money, but there is no pull or weight to demand the money. I still think Liga is owed money for Barcos AND certainly for a few other players. Aren't some teams also selling almost every inch of shirt space for advertising placement- this is a good idea, but horrible for aesthetics and developing a cohesive team around the institution and not the funders of said soccer club.

    I actually agree and say it's a crisis, but it's not as bad as in other countries. The global recession definitely plays a role in people being strapped for cash here and abroad, but in Ecuador there is just a huge disposable income gap, and cuts need to be made. Fans are very fickle, so I saw Independiente as a cool role model to follow where their funding is stemming from developing young talent. Management there is also very professional and business-like in their approach.

    Clubs are just lacking funding PERIOD...and things are super expensive in Ecuador to fix on the fly. I don't really know the answer to increasing attendance, but even winning teams are struggling to fill seats.

    ah, what a problem!!!
     
  6. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Damn. Shit is about to hit the fan big time. Now that Barcelona players are not practicing is pretty big. What is funny to me is how the owners and some fans get mad at the players. As if it's their fault for the Ecuadorian teams being poor as shit. If my boss didn't pay me one check... Hell no. It's on. I don't understand the mentality of those people thinking players should work for free.

    I wonder what options does the FEF have? And what are they planning to do? It has to be pretty drastic IMO.
     
  7. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    this is a quote from Chiriboga and the FEF directed towards Rodrigo Paz:
    Parecería que Paz no entiende o no quiere entender que la crisis económica por la que atraviesan algunos clubes obedece a la errónea administración de sus directivos, haciendo contrataciones de elevado costo, muy por encima de lo presupuestado, tal como el mismo Paz lo reconoce en la página benditofutbol.com el jueves 21 del presente mes: “Acerca de los motivos de la crisis del fútbol ecuatoriano, Paz reconoció que la culpa también es de los clubes, que se hicieron de jugadores caros y que eso infló el mercado”.
    got it from futbolecuador. I mentioned this a while back. These clubs can't really blame the FEF. They have to blame themselves. Rodrigo Paz is the man, any and every liguista loves him but on this one I am siding with what the FEF is saying. Just like I said before, after BSC spent 10 million in the 2008 season on building a squad and Liga won the Libertadores that same year, the signings that came post 2008 to our league were more costly every year. We had a couple players who played for national teams, others who came with a pretty important backgrounds to Liga, BSC, D. Quito, and Emelec in the last few years who would have probably never looked at the Ecuadorian league as somewhere to consider playing pre-2008. And the clubs are to blame b/c they all went into "competition" with each other to see who can get the most expensive/high valued player and paid whatever the hell was being demanded by foreign clubs like idiots who don't know how to negotiate sh*t. I'll easily put Pablo Zeballos as an example of this year and there's a few more out there. Suddenly all these players started coming to our league and were getting paid 40,000 plus. Nahuelpan was at 70,000 a month. That's insane and definitely does not reflect the reality of what ecua teams are capable of paying. That's why lots of these clubs are broke, besides Emelec who is stable due to ONE reason and that is that they are always fighting at the top of the table and get $$$$ every season playing both Libertadores and Copa Sudamericana. So the money is coming in there regardless and as long as they don't fall off and fail making it to these tournament, they'll remain fine. Fans will continue going to the stadium for campeonato, libertadores, and sudamericana as long as emelec is up top. Same thing was happening with Liga. But Liga is feeling the pain right now b/c we don't have people in the stadiums and we aren't getting any extra $$ from playing international tournaments that would help us remain stable before. That's the difference when you're fighting at the top of the campeonato. Next season I assure you guys BSC, D. Quito, and Liga, and possibly even Emelec, won't have any big signings as far as foreigners go. And the best ecua players in the campeonato are gonna be the ones that everyone fights for. I'm pretty sure D. Quito will fight relegation next season since their team is mostly going to be their canteras and to be honest their youth divisions are garbage and don't produce jack. Emelec will be perfectly fine. BSC will have to sell certain players this season (Erazo, Paredes, Campos, etc.) and bring up their cantera and/or sign a few stand outs from this season to remain strong. As far as Liga, certain historicos are leaving/retiring and other players who didn't meet expectations are gooing to be on their way out. I think we'll be fine financially as long as we qualify to an international tournament. We have lots of good players on the come up that started to make an impact now at the end of the season and will finish off unleashing their potential in 2014.
     
  8. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Nice write up.

    Still, I think FEF should look into putting some laws against over budget, limiting club spending, or something drastic. Something like the Bundesliga where no team is allowed to be in dept. Give the teams 2-3 years to get out of debt or be relegated. This will force team to concentrate on their canteras as you said. Actually FEF should start modeling the Bundesliga entirely. (Damn Germans are freaking smart!)

    One positive thing that can come out of this, as you mentioned, is the youth talent. The teams will be forced to improve in that aspect. This is where Independiente del Valle will be hecka strong next season. Their youth system are one of the best, if not the best in Ecuador. I'm glad to hear that Liga has strong youth talent. Hope that we can get a good coach too that works wonders with kids.
     
  9. b9d23m89

    b9d23m89 Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    house on the hills
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Right now it seems like Jorge Burruchaga, Ruben Dario Insua, and Luis Zubeldia are the three main candidates to coach Liga next season. (in that order). So obviously Liga isn't going to flush money out insanely like before...not even on a coach. Some people want Ricardo Gareca, but to be honest it's tough for someone like that to come to Liga b/c he'll be asking for a fat check. I remember I said this a few years ago....Independiente is going to win a campeonato very soon. Every year they get closer. Look at where they are right now. 2nd in the Accumulated Table and 2nd in the Segunda Etapa. Last two years they were top 4 or 5. Now they are getting closer and closer every year. If they don't sell any of their players for next season they'll be good. At most they should only sell Sornoza and Pineida to get some good money. No more than that. I think if they keep that in mind they'll be a headache for everyone next year yet again. I think U Catolica might fall off next season though. Federico Laurito might leave, there's interest in the Patta brothers, Diego Benitez is being looked at by foreign club teams, Andres Mendoza is being fought for between the Astillero teams and it seems like Emelec has their hands on him.


    but everybody have your eyes on Mushuc Runa next season. They are the talk of the Serie B just like U Catolica was last year. I think they'll be a team that will have everyone surprised if this is true.
     
    Emperor Adriano repped this.
  10. barcelonista1981

    May 16, 2007
    GUAYAQUIL
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I'm not sure if it was pointed out, but a HUGE part of the problem is the fanbase, Ecuadorians, we got to be one of the worst fan bases in South America, I remember not too long Independiente JT and UC were playing a match and as you all know they both have had a splendid year, 1,200 people were at the stadium, how are teams supposed to have a consistent income from attendance, I mean that kind of income will barely cover stadium employees. It's happened to BSC too, first time in many years we arent the top team in attendance, the Quito teams are struggling as well, these type of things do not happen in Colombia, Chile, Uruguay, heck, I'm sure Peru and Paraguay attendance records are greater than ours.
    Personall, I would love for FEF to drop the hammer and just ban foreign player hiring for a few years, I am sure our performances will be bad in International cups but in a few ears our finances will be contained and we'll have 2-4 good quality players for every position.
     
    lav92 repped this.
  11. Luigi408

    Luigi408 Member

    May 16, 2010
    San Jose, Ca
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    Well, I don't think the fans are the problem honestly. I think the stadiums just suck. I know I am used to USA stadiums and I'm not trying to compare, but man... I wouldn't want to go to those stadiums either.

    First of all it's freaking dangerous! No one wants to take their family. There is no tough security like in USA. The fans should be checked at every entrance for dangerous items. FEF should ban dangerous items and open containers. Families shouldn't have to fear for their lives when attending a game. Fans causing trouble should be punished harshly by FEF and police. They should never be allowed to go into the stadium. There should be a hot line in the stadium where fans can calls and report troubled fans. There are many more security features that could be added to stadiums.

    Second, I see that stadiums seats aren't numbered or have their own seats. I know that they recently added this but stadiums should install seats to attact more fans. Security should enforce seating in your correct number. Also make it easier to purchase tickets and season tickets online.

    Concession stands is a must for a stadium. Good food and drinks is where they make the most money. This should be top priority for stadiums to have IMO. AT&T Park in San Francisco has one of the best food stands in USA... I seriously spend hecka money here when I take my lady to see San Francisco Giants baseball games. We don't go often so I don't mind spending money there when we go. A clean environment with good food and drinks would bring SO much revenue.

    There are so many things that I can see that are missing from Ecua stadiums. I don't even think there are bathrooms on most of them... If the owners don't spend building better stadiums then they shouldn't expect to fans to attend games.

    By the way, I don't think ticket prices matter... If you provide a safe and clean environment with good entertainment... People will pay.

    By the way I've never been to a game but this is what I notice and from what I've heard on the news and stuff. If I'm incorrect let me know.
     
  12. LDU4ever

    LDU4ever Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 21, 2004
    Gainesville, FL
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I agree with some of the aforementioned posts, but in all honesty- Ecuadorian fans have been regretfully lax when it comes to consistent support. Hell, I remember when I went to the 08 Libertadores, my finals ticket vs. Fluminense came with 1 or 2 extra games- one of those was against Espoli, which they knew was going to be a bare stands game. Now, this is where Luigi's points do hold a lot of consideration- extra stadium services will go a long way in incentivizing more consistent attendance (concessions, security, clean bathrooms, and easy access points). Since many stadiums are already built, I can imagine the headache of having to retrofit to make these stadiums meet our standards.

    For now, teams need to hunker down, hope Ecuador has a good WC, and sell some talent to shed debt. Later on, develop that loyal fanbase culture, and then seek to expand/diversify their revenue streams. I'm sad that this is happening in Ecuador, because we have a pretty tough/competitive league, but we're not making money, and it's hurting the players and the overall quality of our league.
     
  13. javer

    javer Member

    Sep 11, 2012
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    Did you guys read about all the FEF scandals? I swear we should be living in a golden era of Ecuadorian soccer but FEF killed it all with greed. Paz even came out to say that there getting taxed heavily and that only BSC and Emelec are receiving help. Typical everything is so corupt.
     
  14. GPisco

    GPisco Member

    Jul 22, 2014
    Toronto, On
    Club:
    Barcelona Guayaquil
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I heard the FEF received some money from conmebol for the CA participation and divided up the money unfairly. I also heard that FIFA sent 1.5 million for D. Quito but the FEF only gave them about 350,000 and Dep. Quito's ex president was apart of that. Not to sure if the numbers are accurate but you get the gist of it. Honestly i dont see us coming out of this crisis anytime soon. Anyone know if there are salary caps in place would be a great idea, giving player contracts with x amount of money weekly and not being able to pay i mean thats a big issue in this crisis, maybe limit the number of foreigners on a team (would help the NT in the long run), honestly fans are a big thing its honestly shitty seeing empty stadiums unless its Barcelona vs Emelec, Emelec vs Liga, Liga vs Barcelona i mean even then sometimes the stadiums arent full.
     
  15. javer

    javer Member

    Sep 11, 2012
    Club:
    Liga de Quito
    The economic issues of the league are not going to disappear soon several mistakes from the clubs like you said promising high salaries and not being able to fulfill, contracting to many players and foreigners, and relying on credit and sponsor ships to sustain a team.

    A few things I pray FEF does....

    1) Expand the Seria A and B by adding two teams. Too many teams are sinking or not to far from it Dep Quito, Olmedo, Loja, Espoli. Expanding will not only help them stay in Seria B but also increase competition and bring futbol to many different cities for both Seria A and B.

    2) Bring back some sort of domestic cup to our country. I may be wrong but I think it could increase revenue for some teams. Maybe not all but teams that have a decent number for fans that come to the stadiums and those who face big teams like BSC, Emelec, Liga etc. It would also increase the quality over all of our league. Why is it that we dont have one but almost every other country does?

    Benched players in BSC, Emelec and other teams can get huge amounts of playing time if we introduce a cup like this. They would get more opportunities to play when they face Third division teams and Seria B teams. That means better opportunities for players to consolidate them self at club level, more competition with in the team and hopefully more players coming up on the NT radar.

    3) It might be something beyond them because this is mostly due to our government more than anything but to some how regulate the taxes the Clubs get for use of water, electricity etc. It isnt fair that a team like Liga(and I imagine all other small and struggling teams) pay way more than BSC and Emlec and that the government is only helping them and no one else. That just inst fair teams are in dept and struggling as is. FEF needs to step into that as well.

    4) Of course regulate the signings and salaries to prevent further debt from teams.
     

Share This Page