Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) Kaka, Ronaldinho (arguably the two best players int he world) Ronaldo, Adriano, Lucio, Ze Roberto (recently retired) Emerson, Cicinho, Dida were all missing and these are typical starters.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) I hope the result doesn't affect the U-20 Arg. I'm hoping for an exiting game
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) If Doni wouldnt have cheated on the penalty? well then they would have to retake the penalty and then you dont know what happens next, wether he misses or scores, you dont know what wouldve happened next so dont bring up that sh*t no more.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) Retired and injured players don't count!!! Cicinho has not started under Dunga. Only Kaká and Ronaldinho on that list were really missing and they have not always started under Dunga. Same goes for you samuel clemens. JC, Fred and Lucio are injured (Fred was called up remember? We were a man short cause he broke his foot). Adriano has nto been called up by Dunga cause he's out of shape and just returning. So yes, only two were missing.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) Kaká, Ronaldinho, Fred/Adriano, Lúcio, Júlio Cesar. 5 or 6 abs, depending on how you look at it. DEfinetly not only 2.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) I counted Ze Roberto because his retirement was unexpected/very sudden and he could have continued playing for Brasil because he's excellent. And injured players DO count because if Riquleme and Messi were unable to play because of injury then people would be calling the Argentina team a "B" team as well. "B" means that your regular starters are not in there. Cicinho is the rightful heir to Cafu and had it not been for injuries he would have been starting under Dunga as well. So...Brasil had how many starters missing? Kaka, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Adriano, Cicinho, Lucio, Emerson, Dida and (Ze Roberto). 8-9 Oh yeah, Fred would make it 10. If Fred were not injured Wagner Love would never be starting.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) Argentina will have to learn what it took Brazil 2 decades to realize, it is going to take more than talent and playing beautiful football to win you a tournament.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) If theyre injured then theyre missing, Dunga wouldve used them if they werent injured, so they are missing
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) I was thinking the same thing, Argentina is at the stage where Brasil was in the 80s, early 90s. Brasil eventually got tired of being underachievers, and won 2 WCs. I´d say bringing back Basile was a bad move by the Argies. Hes the guy that got beat 0-5 by Colombia at home, and was KOed and the 2nd round of the 94 WC. Time to stop recycling. Get rid of him, get rid of Veron, Zanetti, Ayala, etc. They havent won anything while their were in their prime, sure as hell they wont start winning now.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) LOL@Brazil B team owning Argentina. looool Ombak just drop it, let the argentinian suffer, this in no way or shape was Brazil A team. Kaka best in the world followed by Ronaldinho equal 4 players by themselves cause they demand more than single coverage. add in Ronaldo in attack, fred was missing, cicinho was missing? like seriously, these guys are auto starters for brazil and they were missing hence Brazil beat argentina with their b team.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) Damn this was much much better than Copa'04!!! Brazil did play very good, though they had me yelling at the tv early in the 2nd half when they were getting stupid yellows for time wasting!! Gotta give Dunga props!! 10 years ago he lifted the Copa as a player and now he took a B minus team(sorry Ombak but neither u, I or anyone with any common sense would use that lineup for a WC match!!) made them belive in his system and belived in them and now he lifts the Copa as a coach!!! I dont think he'll be in any hurry to call back R-Dinho or Kaka!! NUMBER EIGHT IS GREAT!!!!
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) Wrong re CICINHO......he started the first two games under Dunga. He did call-up and play Adriano v Portugal n February btw.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) Fair enough. My point still stands - neither Adriano nor Cicinho are starters at this point.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) This is just being fickle. Give credit where it is due - they lit up the tournament and won 5 games and were free scoring as well. They can be proud of their futbol but were outwitted today. People need to find some middle ground when making judgments.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) I disagree about Cicinho - especially if we stick to a 4-4-2 - and anyone who calls a team that is missing injured players a B team is wrong. That's not how it works. B team used to actually have a meaning - it used to mean a completely reserve, often uncapped, team that was going to play an exhibition game parallel to the A team (in other words if the A team were 23 players, the B team would not include even one of those 23 players). Now it means nothing, people arbitrarily throw it around when someone who they feel should be starting is not there. Injured players don't count because you wouldn't call an injured player up for any game - omajac if Brazil had a WC qualifier tomorrow Lúcio, Fred, JC etc. would not be called up because they are injured - they're absences are things you have to deal with on the A team, they don't suddenly make us a B team. The only absences that do are voluntary ones - and here we have only two, Kaká and Ronaldinho, both by choice of the player with the coach's agreement.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) Well, they - Argentina - got close in 1990 by playing the most cynical futebol I have ever seen a team play in a World Cup. It is no exagerration to say that futebol's laws were reviewed after Argentina's campaign in that Copa. I suppose I am saying cynicism almost worked.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) Correct. I think we were 4 short - Julio Cesar, Lucio and Kaka - forget Ron Guacho as he might not have played both Kaka and him. So I agree - 8 As and 3 A pluses!!
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) Lúcio, Júlio César and Kaká are unquestionable starters based on past call-ups and current form. But JC and Lúcio were injured, so we just have to hope they'll be ready for October, and I'm sure they will be.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) I haven't read any of the posts yet. Beautiful Defense by Brazil. DUNGA. Beautiful touch football by Brazil; I will have to watch it again to look at the off ball movement because it must have been amazing; Brazil's form was great, until the last 10 minutes at least. Almost a perfect game by Brazil and the coach; only change Dunga could have made was to substitute Baptista around 80 minutes. Wagner love could become a good player with the right coaching.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) He had a good game today, had a hand in the 1st and 3rd goals. He's good at assisting but he's not a goal scorer, I still don't want him as a starter.. a late 2nd half subsitute is what he is.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) I think both Mexico and Uruguay could have defeated us today. Bot not Argentina. We always play our best against them, while they always choke against us (in neutral ground, that is).
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) congrats to Brazil, they played very well and deserved the victory.
Re: FINAL: Argentina vs Brazil (r) I don't see how Wagner Love starts in front of a healthy Ronaldo / Adriano etc....I actually would love to see Julio Baptista at the striker role and let another skilfull player play as the Attacking mid.