The Office has been renewed (there's a recent thread about all the renewals and non-renewals), while Scrubs will come in at midseason.
Twenty years from now, the first three seasons of the Sopranos will still be brilliant. Twenty years from now, people will wonder why in the hell they were watching Wife Swap. I don't give a ******** how many people watch it. It's still crap. The fact that millions of people watch Jerry Springer is not evidence that Jerry Springer is any good. It's an indictment of the tastes of millions of people.
So entertainment media, who's sole purpose is to entertain as many people as possible, is considered good if you like it, but considered crap if millions of people like it but not you? smrt.
Yes, I'm basically arguing that. Are you seriously going to take the position that Jerry Springer and The Sopranos are equal in quality, or that the difference in quality is only a matter of personal preference?
Yes, I am. People watch Springer. A lot of them. It does what it is designed to do - it entertains people. Now granted, that's kind of a tough comparison (Jerry and Sopranos) cause The Sopranos isn't ranked on that list because A) the haven't made one in like ten years, and B) it's not network television. So The Sopranos very well may outdraw Jerry if it were on daily in the same time slot on a different network channel. But it's not. Plus you also have to understand that television is geared to different people at different times. Jerry would not get remotely the ratings he does if they just decided out of the blue to drop it into the 8:00pm Thursday night slot. It's geared to the people that are home when it is on in their market. At that time, most people are doing chores or running around or just waking up and like to have the television on showing something they can easily leave the room for couple minutes for and come back and not miss a beat. If the Sopranos were on at that same time, people couldn't just have it on as casual viewing fare. It's a show that needs to be watched from beginning to end. It just wouldn't work well at that time.
That only means it's effective, not that it's quality. Of course, there's nothing wrong some amount of mindless crap. I'm a total snob, but I still watch What Not to Wear every weekend. But I also know that it's crap. Yes, it effectively entertains me, but it doesn't do anything more than that. The Sopranos does.
I find it very hard to accept that Tivo's are ruining the ratings system. In fact, I declare shenanigans and propose that you are talking out of your hind-parts 100%. I want to see a source that proves otherwise.
jerry springer and 50 cent being crap has absolutely nothing to do with whether i like it or not - that stuff was utter crap from the second it was conceived, long before i got a sample yes, some things are popular entertainment, and then some things are art
well geez dude, are you saying that there is no such thing as a quality differential at work? is popularity the only way to measure these things? every single thing in life has levels of quality; you have good restaurants and ones that induce vomit, you have well made clothes and ones that seem to fall apart on the first rain, you have the st. louis cardinals and you have the chicago cubs... know what i mean? naturally, everybody's tastes differ, but some things should be pretty easy to determine
No, I think what he's saying is that quality really doesn't matter in terms what shows get renewed or cancelled. Or that a show that is "crap", but gets high ratings, is a quality show on the "entertainment" scale, while a show that has a good plot, good acting and isn't "crap", but gets low ratings, scores very low on the "entertainment" scale. So that a show high on the entertainment scale (ratings) is "quality" entertainment, because it entertains lots of people. But a good show in terms of writing, plot and acting, that gets low ratings, simply isn't "quality" entertainment because it doesn't entertain many people. Or something. Myself, I watch only the following: Lost Amazing Race Survivor CSI (the original only) That Show On Right After CSI On Thursdays Fear Factor Las Vegas Lots of FSC Lots of GolTV A bit of SpeedTV, as well as auto racing on ESPN/ABC/CBS/NBC - basically all major non-NASCAR series (IRL/OWRS/F1/ALMS/Grand Am/various Speed World Challenge series'). Documentaries on Discovery Science and History I think Lost and CSI (and that show that follows it) are generally well-written, well acted, and tell good stories, thus, to many here, "quality" shows. Fear Factor, Survivor and Amazing Race are reality shows, so de facto "crap" to some of you. Still they show people doing interesting things for money, which is entertaining. Las Vegas is very light entertainment. Low on plot/acting, but high on cheese and hot chicks dressed in skimply clothes. Sports is, well, sports. I think that American Idol is perhaps one of the more annoying shows ever conceived for television, yet I wouldn't ever claim that it should be removed from a yearly ratings summary, nor would I claim that it's "crap" simply because it's "reality tv". That's just stupid. TV shows are entertainment, whether they're fact or fiction. Some are good at entertaining, some are not. Some good entertainment is through good writing and acting, some is by showing people acting stupid, or doing stupid things for money, whatever. In the end, only ratings matter, since that's how a show gets more (or less) for each commercial run. "Crap" only really matters whether a show gets crappy ratings or not. American Idol doesn't get crappy ratings, Arrested Development does. Claiming that American Idol doesn't deserve to be on TV because "you" don't like it is simply being obstinant. I realize people really like to do that on the internet, but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't productive, other than provoking arguments.
ummmm i didn't call american idol "crap" in any way, nor did i even remotely suggest it shouldn't be on tv - watching people have a singing contest is perfectly reasonable entertainment (despite seacrest ) - i was calling stuff like wife swap, who wants to marry my dad, my big stupid boss, joe millionaire, jerry springer, etc. utter swill, and i stand behind that statement
Sorry, didn't mean to imply you called American Idol, specifically, crap. But many people do. I don't like the show at all. And many people lump every single reality program into the "crap" section of TV programming, regardless of their subject matter. The fact that the 3rd or 4th post was an edited list with all the reality programming removed says lots. I don't see anyone coming up with a list with all sitcoms, crime dramas or medical shows removed.