FIFA's Stance on Cross-Border Leagues (ASEAN Super League?)

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Apr 4, 2015.

  1. Steve Page

    Steve Page Member

    Oct 30, 2013
    Country:
    England
    Interesting to see people, including directors at big clubs, complaining about the TV money in English football. Most of that money comes from British TV subscriptions. If English people are prepared to pay more to watch football on TV than people in the rest of Europe then that is fair competition. Germans, Spaniards and Italians are welcome to spend as much on TV subscriptions. At least tv money is fairly distributed in England unlike Spain.

    What impact this will have in the long term on European competition is unclear. The quality of play in the Premier League should increase. However, the distribution of talent will be more even. It is already possible for big clubs such as Man United or Chelsea to have a poor season in a way that does not happen with Bayern, Real Madrid or Barca. As English clubs face an ever tougher domestic competition they are going to find it harder in European competition. Domestic performance will take priority. Many players will rather play for Bayern, Real or Barca in easier domestic competition, with a higher chance of winning trophies and better preparation for European competition. They won't exactly be paupers either.

    Of course it will also be even harder for English players to get a start in the Premier League. Not good for the national team. I don't think English people would want to pay hundreds of pounds a year to watch a European league either. Especially not if people in other countries are paying less for their subscriptions. It is up to German, Spanish, Italian and other European leagues to better monetise their supporters if they want to compete financially.
     
  2. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Or it could be the increased funding allows more English clubs to buy better talent from the rest of Europe (a la Stoke landing Shaqiri) and begin to perform better in UEFA events overall. May not have a standout team contending for the CL trophy but could clean house otherwise. And while it's easy for many players to want to play for the likes of Bayern, the allure of a solid and steady paycheck might outweigh the appeal of playing for, say, Lazio, Hanover, or Betis.

    We shall see.
     
  3. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    MLS is not a “proper” cross-border league in this context. MLS is a USSF competition with three guest teams from the CSA. According to the ASEAN Super League coverage linked in here the regulations for a proper cross-border league have yet to be drafted by FIFA. We didn't get many details, but I imagine player registration on FIFA's Transfer Matching System (TMS) plays a major role. I believe the USSF as the “home” association does this for MLS - even the Canadian teams. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Then you have the issue of allocating international tournament spots to a league rather than national association, establishing a direct relationship between league and confederation.
    You have a valid point regarding domestic TV rights, but I believe it's the growing international rights that attract envy. Due to a number of factors England is better positioned to sell its product globally. Perhaps we will see a Continental European League as an interim step before it joins forces with the Premiership.
     
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  4. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    #54 Nico Limmat, Jan 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
    Karl-Heinz Rummenigge and Andrea Agnelli (Juventus) are now openly talking about a ESL:
    http://www.goal.com/en/news/725/bun...nigge-rekindles-talk-of-european-super-league
    Like I said previously, I hope this ESL stays within the current FIFA/UEFA setup. I don't want a situation like in other sports. Put the ESL under the UEFA umbrella (call it UEFA Champions League - why build a new brand when you got a successful one?) and ensure there is a promotion/relegation mechanism. The Europa League can become the tournament for promotion. Keep the ESL clubs in the various FA cups. If there is NFL money to be made (and I believe there is) ensure the national leagues who contributed to the ESL are compensated annually for the number of clubs lost to the ESL with a percentage of the revenue.
     
  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Which factors do you think? In language and cultural hinterland a few can compete:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers
     
  6. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    They have no interest in including Ajax or Benfica. Maybe Benfica because of a higher potential in Portugeuse/Spanish markets, and stepping stone, but not Ajax or the Scottish clubs. They are happy to see that they and the EU exemptions (in collective rights selling) have created an insurmountable gap.

    It will be more like this

    https://sports.vice.com/en_us/artic...h-richer-that39s-why-it-exists-us-translation

    http://www.bavarianfootballworks.co...rummenigge-dreaming-of-a-european-superleague
     
  8. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Country:
    Bolivia
    It is however the closest we get to one. and various issues can already be seen. Not insurmountable ones but certainly difficulties.
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #59 PuckVanHeel, Jan 17, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
    On thing in bold:

    I don't see why we (me) have to feel sympathy for Rummenigge his stance. His own club has basically invented the practice of making competitors weaker just for the sake of it (not to make your squad stronger). Has been profiting from acquiring stadiums for free or the ground for nothing (a symbolic 1 euro). Not to mention his club had once huge debts by policy. He has also had big words about the FIFA their corruption (as early as 2011) but his support for Hoeness and friends has remained unconditional, without hesitation and acting as if injustice had been inflicted on the club (and wasn't there a 100k Rolex affair around him?).

    http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/sto...s-honorary-president-franz-beckenbauer-111115

    Will be good riddance if his fears become reality. At least the EPL isn't run like a maffia, and has real good governance.

    http://wired868.com/2014/08/06/omerta-part-six-knifing-mandela-in-the-back/
     
  10. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    Leaving aside Rummenigge as an individual, the interesting point to me is that Bayern appear to have changed their mind about a ESL. The leading Italian and Spanish clubs were always open-minded towards the idea, but Bayern was never a voice in the ESL debate before.
     
  11. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This just all highlights why the idea is rife with flaws and failure. One list shown in a linked article says yes to Lyon and Sevilla but no to Inter and Ajax? Yes to Tottenham but no to Sporting Lisbon or Porto?

    Any criteria for inclusion will be based on the wrong reasons - Directing more money to a few arbitrarily selected clubs - therefore any formal motion toward the idea should be sealed in duct tape and set aflame.
     
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  12. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
  13. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    In a related note the Spanish clubs are upset that plans to create a shared TV revenue system have been scuttled. I don't know why or by whom but we can all guess. It's a shame because the Deloitte data essentially verifies what people at least feel regarding the various leagues - That there is a virtue in packaging something premised around competition across the whole league as opposed to simply touting a few teams. I've little doubt the shared La Liga deal would allow the two giants to earn their share while doing more to help the other teams. I guess some folks don't want to see that gap closed.
     
  14. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    Got a link? Haven't heard of this. I thought the central marketing of television rights was going ahead?
     
  15. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    My bad. Reading through a thread on a different board I came across an article and failed to notice that that day's date was NOT the date the article was published. Looks like the joint league deal has gone ahead.
     
  16. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
  17. shizzle787

    shizzle787 Member

    Apr 27, 2015
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    United States
  18. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    All I am able to hunt down without access to the article is the following quote from UEFA's interim-general secretary Theodore Theodoridis:
    As for the ASEAN Super League things have gone very quiet. Any news on a Caribbean Super League?
     
  19. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
  20. NaBUru38

    NaBUru38 Member

    Mar 8, 2016
    Las Canteras, Uruguay
    Club:
    Club Nacional de Football
    • Beneliga: Belgium+Netherlands.
    • Alpenliga: Switzerland+Austria.
    • Nordliga: Norway+Sweden+Denmark.
    Those would have stronger finances than the current national leagues.
     
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  21. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I don't think it has been mentioned, but the EPL has Welsch clubs. Cardiff in the recent past, and Swansea, and there is a 3rd club in the English league set-up. Also, I beleive a club near north of Newcastle but in England, plays in the Scottish Leagues. In general, I think this should be up to the FA's and fans, not FIFA.
     
  22. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Central Americaliga: Costa Rica, Hondorus, Belize, Guatamala, Panama, El Savador
    Arabia Liga: All the Asian Arab countries in the Middle East
    Celtaliga: Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland
     
  23. NaBUru38

    NaBUru38 Member

    Mar 8, 2016
    Las Canteras, Uruguay
    Club:
    Club Nacional de Football
    I would use a different format for Central America and the Caribbean.

    Instead of merged national leagues , I would do a 2-month Centroliga and Carribbean League, featuring 8-10 teams each, where each national team has the best players of their clubs. This is how it works in rugby.
     
  24. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    Wrexham is the third Welsh exile club.

    I would tend to agree that this is up to the FA's but where FIFA comes into play is the regulations for a true cross-border league. If you believe the articles around the ASEAN Super League such regulations have yet to be written. All current examples of cross-border play don't fall into this category. Instead you have a host league and a guest club. I couldn't find additional details myself but imagine something like player registration would have to be handled by a combined body rather than the FA of the host league. For example I've heard/read somewhere that all Swansea players are registered by the (English) FA. Happy to be corrected if wrong.
     
  25. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Interesting. I guess I always assume FIFA sets up a regulation in order to take a bribe to ignore it, but perhaps there are legitimate reasons.

    The three Welsh clubs participate in the Enlgish FA Cup, I assume they do not participate in any Welsh competitions like the Welsh FA Cup? The North American example is different in that the Canadien MLS clubs play in the their own Canadien competition to determine who represents that country in the CONCACAF Champions League. They cannot qualify via MLS, nor do the play in the U.S. Open Cup (FA Cup).
     
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