FIFA World Cup 2018 - Round of 16: Argentina vs. France - June 30 [R]

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by locoxriver, Jun 26, 2018.

  1. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    True. Winning the CA in Brazil would be huge, and some of the vets still have a lot to offer, and can start sharing their experience. In addition to Messi and Aguero, veterans like Armani, Ottamendi, Banega, can play a role alongside the talented youngsters and help ease the transition, while hopefully getting a title. Now, if we could only get rid of Sampaoli and find a top coach, like maybe Simeone, to sign in for a long term project.
     
  2. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    Masch and Biglia have been great, dedicated players for us. It's not Mascherano's fault that no youngster has taken his position. Mascherano is not a mala leche ala Riquelme that will engage in petty jealousies. It's the fault of our lack of player production or player selection (Samp). It's also not his fault that he's left stranded in the middle of the football field against the fastest player in football while the fullbacks are way out of position and Enzo is playing striker. Though he might have taken a tactical foul there.
     
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  3. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Masche has been a walking disaster for nearly three years. As I said, had he remained retired after the CA, then we could’ve tried a few players. Yes, he is a legend but legends need to know when it is over.
     
  4. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    The manager is supposed to know and have the balls to take him out. To be honest, all our recent touted defensive midfielders have disappointed, eg Kranevitter, Sanchez Mino
     
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  5. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Well we have the players to play that DM role. Asascibar is like for like and could be even better. Caseres and Foyth can emerge into that role as more of a creative force alongside Paredes and then you have your box to box types who can also play in a deep lying role but will go forward with comfort like Robertone and Lo Celso.
     
  6. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    If it were only that simple.
     
  7. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Ill advised moves abroad for both and not playing sufficient games and also a poor attitude from Kranevitter like Cirigliano before him. Ability is there, technical level not bad but never worked on learning the role (also a bit difficult when you don't play) and mentally weak.

    I would discount Kranevitter. Look at Asascibar's hunger, drive, his ability to learn and the fact he is playing regularly.
     
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  8. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    Are these more AMs/wannabe Maradonas or the defensive, box-to-box midfielders that we need? I'll believe it when I see it.
     
  9. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    Exactly. Player selection is on sampaoli last time I checked. Bringing such a thin midfield is his mistake, we could have used more midfielders I stead of useless outlet players like Acuna and salvio.

    Also, people here said that our attack was good. Truth is we scored 3 in spite of having been really horrible in attack. Di Marias wonder goal actually disguised our lack of attacking strategy. Messi as a false 9 in this setup was the biggest joke I have seen. Pavon and Di Maria were running down the flank and crossing it to a ghost
     
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  10. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    You need a manger with huevos who can stand up to the media and fans screaming for their favorite star and tango football.
     
  11. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    But who selected Masche if not the manager? Messi? if its Sampa, then I wonder if he live in alternate universe in last few years in which Masche still the best DMF on the planet.
     
  12. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    Honestly the problem with new crop of players is that they are mercenaries. They remind of all of those Brazilian mercenaries who would play for turkey, China, Russia and wherever else for a big paycheque. It's disgusting. We don't have players who are after glory and willing to make sacrifices to achieve it. Look at batistuta staying at fiorentina and making a go at champions league glory. We don't have that. Why did Paredes go to Russia instead of staying in Italy. Who is advising these players? Greedy agents. Our new players all need to find a mid table team in Italy or Spain and work their way up.
     
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  13. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    The 3 forwards could work if we played deep and counterattacked. Playing buildup with this was not going to work. Funniest thing was how Enzo had to let Messi take over midfield and move into striker position. Unbelievable that Sampaoli didnt make tactical changes to start the second half.
     
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  14. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    As I mentioned before, sometimes a player needs to just step away for their own good. If you’re not at that level anymore then hang them up.
     
  15. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Carlos Bianchi nails it...

    La Selección mostró problemas para defender cuando atacaba y no supo neutralizar a un delantero veloz.

    Cuando usted sabe que hay un delantero rival tan veloz, los dos marcadores centrales no deben pararse a la misma altura: uno aprieta al contrario y el otro sobra a dos metros, no a 20 centímetros.

    La otra situación lógica fue que el mediocampo de Argentina estuvo lento para ir y, sobre todo, para volver. Suele pasar cuando se juntan volantes de 30 años o más en un sector de la cancha donde cada vez se corre más.

    https://www.clarin.com/deportes/mundial-2018/argentina-mal-parada-lenta-medio_0_rkCmQrrM7.html
     
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  16. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    All players are mercenaries. These guys sometimes have a 5 year window to make money to set their families up comfortably for life. Cannot blame them for taking the money. As long as they play hard for la selección, it's fine with me. I much prefer how leagues were in the early 90s. Globalization sucks but what can you do?
     
  17. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Mid-level Spanish and Italian sides? HA! If you’re not starting for Barcelona andReal Madrid, you suck!

    Speaking of Paredes. A couple months ago, there were reports that he’s leaving Zenit and the two clubs that he may go to were Madrid or Juve... Well, now, it is rumored that Sampdoria might be the team he will go to. I just have to chuckle at times. Him leaving Roma, IMO cost him a spot to the World Cup.
     
  18. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    I just disagree.
    Player's duty - be fit, don't fight with teammates, play hard. Bonus if you're a lesder.
    Masch has been exemplary. Maybe our best character ever.

    Manager's duty - have balls to pick the right players and tactics regardless of media and fan lunatics, scout for talent, scout opponents, enforce discipline on team.
    Bilardo was our best.

    AFA's duty - I'll leave that for Albiceleste 2010.
     
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  19. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member

    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Mascherano is ill suited to the type of football Sampaoli played during this WC. We all knew el Jefecito was slow when making long runs and his passes aren't as crisp as other WC DMs, but what he had was good tackling and great anticipation. For me, Mascherano truly shined when Sabella went defensive during the knock out stage as the system masked his weaknesses. If Sabella or Simeone were the manager for this WC and played defensive, then I think Masche would have been at least ok. Hopefully this time, Sampa will pick players that is best suited to his system.
     
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  20. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Then, we’ll have to disagree.
     
  21. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    He's also very crafty with regards to jocking for position and fouling.
     
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  22. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yes, its manager's duty to keep track on which player deserve a call up. Based on form, Masche shouldnt even be in 23 list , let alone to start every single time. Ok, he had all the experience , has a great leadership which Messi's lacking but any decent manager would have drop a player who put strings of abysmal performance at WC. Masche played bad in first 2 games, he still started in third game... another bad performance in third game and he still started in second round. After wastefull performance in first half, he's still there till last minute.
     
  23. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Lucas Robertone and Lo Celso are the box to box candidates. The former has yet to be tested at the highest levels of club competition. Not as technically proficient as Lo Celso but has good awareness of players around him, retrieves the ball and drops into decent positions around the opponents box. Passing is pretty crisp too. I hope he keeps developing.
     
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  24. johnbarley2

    johnbarley2 Member

    Jan 19, 2013
    The thing about how we overvalue experience is interesting. I now have a more cynical idea. Managers do it to save their ass. If the famous player flops, most won't dispute his selection. If an unknown player on good form flops, people go crazy. Another consequence of lacking huevos.
     
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  25. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Based on merit, half of the 23 shouldn’t have been there.

    All managers have favorites and that is a problem. Pupi played in 140+ matches for us and only went to two world cup’s, talk about a load of crap.
     
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  26. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I have posted some of what the AFA needs to do in the National Team thread. It isn't rocket science and senior figures in Argentina not those stupid tabloid journalists who attack everyone and heap more and more pressure on the team and indeed domestic managers know what needs to be done. They have known it for some time as well.

    But the AFA is run by fools still. As for Jefecito he will always have my respect as a player. He was a real lion and as I said one of the very best fives to play for us.


    I find it hard to watch and I shed a tear too of sadness.
     
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