FIFA U17 WC Referee Discussions [Rs]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The U17WC in India during October is the last big check for WC candidates (the CWC counts, too, but that's small with few referees). Selected referees are below. Two things of note. As previously reported, there will be no VAR at the tournament--makes no sense to me whatsoever, but it's reality. Second, a few of the referees assigned are not WC candidates or, perhaps more precisely, were not WC candidates the last time the list was published or leaked publicly. I can't imagine many of these referees are actually in the running to get on-field spots in Russia, but you never know. I've indicated the non-WC candidates (again, at least on paper) below with a double asterisk and the candidates to be VARs with a single asterisk:

    AFC
    BIN JAHARI (SIN)*
    SATO (JPN)
    SHUKRALLA (BHR)

    CAF
    ABID CHAREF (ALG)
    NAMPIANDRAZA (MAD)**
    WEYESA (ETH)**

    CONCACAF
    MARRUFO (USA) [ROCKWELL/F.ANDERSON]*
    MONTERO (CRC)
    PITTI (PAN)

    CONMEBOL
    ARGOTE (VEN)
    CACERES (PAR)
    RICCI (BRA)
    VARGAS (BOL)

    OFC
    ZITOUNI (TAH)**

    UEFA
    HATEGAN (ROU)
    MADDEN (SCO)**
    SIDIROPOULOS (GRE)
    SOARES DIAS (POR)
    TAYLOR (ENG)**
    TURPIN (FRA)
    VINCIC (SVN)**
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A few thoughts...

    1) The Marrufo trio's presence is good for American refereeing. With him being considered as a VAR, I'm not exactly sure how it works and what it means for the ARs (can either go to Russia as reserves?) but either way it's pretty cool to get a second US-led crew at a FIFA event in the same year. It will, however, take them out of the final weeks of the MLS regular season and likely the start of the playoffs.

    2) Either FIFA already knows who it's sending to Russia from Africa or now it's just throwing darts.

    3a) The UEFA crew is comparatively weak compared to what it sent to U20s and Confed, which isn't too surprising given the timing. Hategan and Turpin are probably real candidates for the World Cup. The others? Not so much.

    3b) Taylor's inclusion here is fascinating. If Clattenburg is out (and all information we have indicates he is at this point), the two schools of thought are that either England is left without a WC referee for the first time since it joined FIFA or another candidate would emerge. It's probably the former, but if it is the latter I believe everyone thought the battle was between Atkinson (who is technically "too old" but maybe could get a waiver?) or Oliver, who is the perceived rising star. Taylor's name is a surprise.

    4) Perhaps most interestingly, there are 7 support referees assigned to this tournament. All are female and all were referees at WWC 2015. Not sure what the motivation is for FIFA here, but it's clearly been done by design so I expect we might hear something about it before October.
     
  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    What is the role of support referees?
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fourth officials.
     
  5. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    That is a fascinating decision.
     
  6. greek ref

    greek ref Member

    Feb 27, 2013
    Club:
    Panathinaikos Athens
    Nat'l Team:
    Greece
    I disagree. Taylor is liked by both FIFA and UEFA. He, Oliver and Soares Dias are the 3 First Group officials without a match on the 3rd Q. round of CL and EL. So, they will have P.O. matches along with all the Elite Referees. Moreover both Taylor and Oliver had EL R16 matches last March.

    Finally, who is the President of the FIFA Referees Committee? I think that this answers the question.
     
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  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess we're looking at it from different perspectives.

    Oliver did the U17WC Final in 2015. Taylor has never previously been to a FIFA event, correct?

    For me, if the 2017 U17WC is an assessment event for potential WC referees, it would make total sense to me that Oliver, with prior high-level FIFA experience, would be first in line from England. I guess you're looking at it from the perspective of Oliver having already been to this tournament, so it makes sense for Taylor to now get his turn. If this was the 2019 cycle, I would agree, because the off-year cycles are used to try new referees. But to the extent the 2017 tournaments are all supposed to be about the World Cup, I find it surprising--and that's without saying anything about their respective positions within UEFA.
     
  8. greek ref

    greek ref Member

    Feb 27, 2013
    Club:
    Panathinaikos Athens
    Nat'l Team:
    Greece
    I guess that FIFA is looking IF they will have an English referee at the WC. With Clattenburg out and Atkinson off the FIFA list, they eventually had to turn to Taylor/Oliver. But I am afraid that they did it too late. Also don't forget that IF one of these 2 is selected, he won't be an Elite referee on the WC days unless UEFA does mid-season changes.
     
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  9. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    All support referees are of the highest calibre too - all but one did knockout matches at WWC 2015:

    MONZUL (QF, F)
    STAUBLI (R16, Euro 2017 Final)
    KEIGHLEY (R16, SF)
    UMPIERREZ (QF)
    CHENARD (QF)
    RI (R16, 3rd place playoff)

    The only one without a knockout match was LENGWE (ZAM). No referee from CAF had a knockout match at that tournament.
     
  10. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    Staubli will referee the Japan - New Caledonia match on Saturday. Likely a very one-sided match, so a perfect opportunity for this milestone. She will be assisted by Gary Beswick and Adam Nunn, both from England. Fourth official is Uruguayan female referee Umpierrez.
     
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  11. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd argue the UEFA Champions League is the true assessment event for potential UEFA WC referees (during the 12 months leading up to the World Cup). Of course for the rest of the world, maybe the youth World Cups is your best option. Qualifiers are okay, but we all know some very strange things happen during them.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless Collina has truly consolidated power to the point that only he is making decisions on UEFA referees, I'd argue history shows otherwise. Hauge, Mejuto Gonzalez and Larsen being the best examples of referees who were dominating UEFA knockout stages but got ignored by FIFA when the final decision came. You could even add Skomina and Kassai to the list, though those situations are a little murkier and had to do more with their ARs. I would even argue, though, that Hansson could have made the World Cup if his "hand of frog" goal was in a UCL QF, let's say, instead of a WCQ.

    Since 2005, the FIFA tournaments (Confed, U17, U20 and CWC) are theoretically supposed to be where major assessments are made. That has obviously not held true with the U17s and, of course, qualifiers are going to play a huge role also. And it will all vary by confederation and be influenced by all levels of politics.
     
  13. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    This.

    PH
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Will be interesting to see how Team Marrufo does with assignments going forward. On the one hand, they got two very good group stage assignments and I haven't heard of any issues. On the other, the advancement of the US could hurt them.

    They obviously can't do the US QF. You would think they can't do the QF that determines who the US plays (Germany against, likely, Brazil). For the other two QFs, one will definitely have either Mexico or Iran, who they've already done. So that seems unlikely (though not impossible). That leaves the Mail/Iraq vs. Ghana/Niger match (and they've already done Iraq) as the most likely. Will be a few days until we see what happens. They could also be held for the semifinal stages, with the hopes (for them, of course) that the US doesn't advance.
     
  15. balu

    balu Member+

    Oct 18, 2013
    For the records, the R16 appointments:

    Colombia 0-4 Germany: SHUKRALLA (BHR)
    Paraguay 0-5 USA: HATEGAN (ROU)
    Iran 2-1 Mexico: TAYLOR (ENG)
    France 1-2 Spain: CACERES (PAR)
    England 0-0 (5-3p) Japan: ARGOTE (VEN)
    Mali 5-1 Iraq: MONTERO (CRC)
    Ghana - Niger: SOARES DIAS (POR)
    Brazil - Honduras: TESSEMA WESEYA (ETH)
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #17 MassachusettsRef, Oct 20, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
    Mali: Ghana - ABID CHAREF (ALG)
    United States : England - TURPIN (FRA)
    Spain : Iran - VARGAS (BOL)
    Germany : Brazil - MARRUFO (USA)

    First, unequivocally, congratulations to Team Marrufo. That's a marquee assignment, obviously. And any knockout match at a FIFA event is a huge win for US officials.

    But given the US plays first and the winner of Germany v Brazil would be their opponent (should they beat England), it's a 50/50 shot this puts Marrufo in an awful spot and one that FIFA almost always avoids. So either there is some laziness going on with the assigning (Marrufo could have easily done Mali v. Ghana, for example--with at the youth level is probably a tougher match, to be honest) or Busacca really wanted to see the American crew on this match. Or it's some combination of that.

    It's particularly an interesting assignment because confederational neutrality got dumped to put Turpin on the US-England match. If you're going to dump neutrality for that match, you could have easily put a UEFA referee on the Germany-Brazil one. I suppose that lends itself to the argument that FIFA just really wanted to see the US crew again here.
     
  17. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Yes, agreed, congrats are due!
    Good luck to them, it could be a very tough match, after the 7-1 hammering Brazil got from Germany
    in the 2014 WC semi-final.

    It could simply be that Brazil would object to a UEFA referee, whereas USA did not. Personally I doubt that a French referee would
    do England any favors anyway! In some ways I would expect England to object more. Remember whose side the French were on in the Revolutionary War.:D

    PH
     
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  18. Doug the Ref

    Doug the Ref Member

    Dec 6, 2005
    St. Louis
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's holding a grudge for a LONG time.
     
  19. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh that grudge goes back even further. Hundred Years War, anyone?
     
  20. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    1066! The last time people from France invaded England successfully.

    PH
     
  21. HoustonRef

    HoustonRef Member

    May 23, 2009
    I like being able to learn history on the Referee Forum.
     
  22. Lucky Wilbury

    Lucky Wilbury Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    United States
    Here is the news broadcast from that day (16:27):
     
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  23. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Next week will be my lecture on the Defenestration of Prague.
     
  24. ArgylleRef

    ArgylleRef Member

    Jan 23, 2004
    Lansing, KS
    Which one?
     

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