Fees for Canceled Games

Discussion in 'Referee' started by Pittsburgh Ref, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    Is it possible there were consequences for the AD if the game didn't happen and she needed someone else to pin that on? If you start then immediately stop the game or refuse to start it in the first place and just leave, either way it wasn't her decision to not play.
     
  2. Kit

    Kit Member+

    Aug 30, 1999
    Herkimer, NY, USA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have officiated at the school since then. That AD has long since retired.

    The only thing that I can think of is that it was late in the season, and it would be hard to re-schedule the game before the playoffs began.
     
  3. 2wheels

    2wheels Member

    Oct 4, 2005
    You meant the BS-hive?

    If so, here is my experience:

    1. You win some, you loose some -- in praxis, More of the latter, than former
    2. It is easier if I accept the risks of being an independent professional -- being honest and having integrity is more satisfying then anything else
    3. I might starve, or not able to pay the rent, but at least I will be able to look the kids in their eyes
    In tournament plays, on several occasions, the assignor has received fees in cash for all games (whenever they contracted for the role), then the match was not played. Who got the money? Not the referee, is the correct answer.
     
  4. 2wheels

    2wheels Member

    Oct 4, 2005
    #29 2wheels, Jun 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
    Notwithstanding the compensation percentages (of 3%), the limiting factor is -- the available pool of referees for that match? Or is this too idyllistic a notion?

    There are algorithms and subroutines to slot in every single qualified referee available. I have excel spreadsheet macros that can do this most mundane of assigning tasks. Five US Dollars, Really? Per Match? Extraordinary!! It is about five cent worth of task.

    Why would not an automated system work?

    ok OK, I know the caveats - you must have an experienced referee for each slot of the match. Right? This is [one] criterion. The other is not having a pool of referees to dip in to. The spreadsheet has factored in the referee rank, if you will.Why would it not work? The pool of referees not being available is an entirely separate situation dependent on very different parameters. And if an assignor conveys to me } we just need somebody, I know right-a-way, how much s/he appreciates my efforts in that league (or tournament).

    Dont the assigner know who is available, and having adequate experience to handle that match?

    If the assigner does not have adequate numbers in the pool, why would s/he start assignment? I am just looking at the business process improvement aspect of the whole thing here. I mean, as referees, we are professionals, correct? We can help out the assignor [our immediate super], or cant we?
     
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  5. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have wondered this, interesting thoughts. I thought most assignors were behind the curve 10-15 years ago when I was at my referee peak and was thinking about this back then. I put it to the side for the sake of my real job and other life events but I worked on an application where the eventual goal would be push button assigning. Obviously availability changes and such but it makes the start so much easier.
     
  6. mvgary

    mvgary Member

    Jan 12, 2006
    Five cents to assign a game? You must be a league administrator looking to save money.
    I suggest you become an assignor at that rate and you should be able to corner the market.
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  7. camconcay

    camconcay Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Feb 17, 2011
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, and we have assignors that do something similar whether it's automated or not I don't know but it is very obvious no one actually looks at the end result. Assigning (correctly) is WAY more than putting a name in a slot. I have seen the job, and I know what some assignors make and it is NOT to me worth it even though some make significant money at it.
     
  8. Eastshire

    Eastshire Member+

    Apr 13, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm not an assignor and I don't play one on TV. However, I think the place where assignors really earn their money is filling in the turnbacks.

    Beyond that, you're describing a system that works well with employees who just go where they're told. However, you're dealing with contractors. Many of whom are working with multiple assignors. If they don't like the assignment, they may just turn it down, figuring they will get a better assignment from someone else. Now you have a real problem because you've already assigned all your referees. Who's going to cover the game?

    It's a more complicated problem than it's been given credit for.
     
    JeffG and Dayton Ref repped this.
  9. djmtxref

    djmtxref Member

    Apr 8, 2013
    I don't know of any assignors who have adequate numbers in the pool, so I guess we are all crazy. If we follow the advice of 2wheels we'd all just walk away.

    My understanding is that most sports have deficits in officials. I know that in Texas at the high school level that's true. At all levels we are seeing more and more teams and fewer referees.

    It would be great if all referees had the attitude "We can help out the assignor". Instead we get refs who only want centers on top games, or no girls games, or nothing under U16. Then they call the night before the games and give you some reason they can't work the next day. So you scramble to cover the game.

    No one would do that for a nickle a game. I'd like 2wheels to tell his(?) assignor that he/she is grossly overpaid. See how that discussion goes.
     
    JeffG and mathguy ref repped this.
  10. frankieboylampard

    Mar 7, 2016
    USA
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain

    I helped with our HS association trying to assign and needless to say I won't do that again.
    They had 38 schools boys and girls all had F-JV-V. On top of that there was about 10 middle schools as well. It was an impossible task, we were still short and had to make calls to get officials to accept games (with around 120 officials on our roster).

    I think like another poster said you can have the best assigning equipment that will auto-assign out all the referee's. However, there are so many factors, like referee declining or turn backing games. Then you have schools who block referees. You also have other factors such as referees who see the same schools over and you have to rotate the referees. I can imagine its even worse when schools cancel and move games. Then you have the logistical nightmare of officials ever changing availability.

    Our association supervisor always said that it would be his goal one day to just use the "auto-assign button" on his Arbiter and not have to manual assign.
     
  11. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    In our state, schools are assigned by the state to referee associations, for all sports. Transferring schools between associations is very rare and difficult, if only because it is geographically assigned. Each association chooses a "commissioner" who is the assignor. The schools assigned to the association must ratify the choice of commissioner and I have seen one commissioner removed by 2/3 vote of the schools. The commissioner assigns all varsity, JV and JV2/freshman games played by that school. There is no system that allows a school to block a particular referee, although I know there are some "requests" not to send that person there again real soon.

    Our commissioner assigns most varsity games and leaves the rest to "self assignment." The self assignment system checks to see that you aren't double booking yourself, you are good enough to do the requested assignment (you are rated and the game is rated and your rating must equal or exceed the game's rating), you haven't done that team too recently, etc. It works very well. We have over 150 referees and driving from one side of the area we cover to the other, on a weekday afternoon, would take 90 minutes, minimum.
     
    IASocFan repped this.
  12. DefRef

    DefRef Member

    Jul 3, 2017
    Storrs CT
    I am new to this site and really enjoying the conversations and perspectives from all over. Been a ref since 09 and an assignor since 10 (when I made the mistake of attending our local club board meeting when the previous assignor resigned).I took the job thinking my 2 ref sons would get lots of work, then learned you are not supposed to assign family....riiiiiiiiiight......

    Doing the assigning as an unpaid volunteer ever since and enjoy it - about 200 games a year. While reffing approx 150 games a year. (HS, adult, DA, premier and youth)

    As a low cost club, we can't afford and don't pay refs who have been notified of cancellations. But if they are not notified and they show up, they get paid. I would say this happens less than 10 times a year.Our pay is middling - $25/15/15 for low rec up to $40/25/25 for U14 comp.

    I have had refs complain about this policy, but have explained that is the way it is and they are free to not request assignments. I send weekly schedule to all refs and they request games which I attempt to fill equitably and suitably. I think I'm doing a good job because I have more refs than I can keep working and more newbies keep coming. We have a policy of 3 refs on every game (even though many obviously don't really need them). Our new refs get lots of AR experience before ever touching a whistle. Other clubs in the area that have a lot of solo games also don't have enough refs.....wonder why.

    Last spring, out of the blue, I was asked to assign the largest tournament in the state and offered $2000. I was thrilled since I would have earned $200 at most actually reffing in the tourney. 424 games, 200+ refs and 120+ hrs of work later, I was not quite so thrilled. Especially after I learned that paid assignors in our area typically get from $10 to $15 a game. But then (unsolicited), they paid me $3000 and then included a separate $500 check they flat out called a bribe to come back next year. Gotta love it.

    On the HS side of the fence, I belong a board that pays our ref assignor 7% of our ref fees. All games are 2 man and pay $90 for V and $60 for JV and $80 for MS (solo). We also pay an annual dues of one V fee. Last year I did 32 games, made $2500 and paid $285 to board/assignor. It's a bit of an old boys club and you have to work your way up to get "good" games. No formal assessment or ratings (that I am aware of). And good luck if you piss off the assignor.........

    Anyway, hope to discuss all things reffing/assigning with you all.
    My motto - "I get paid to exercise"
     
    tomek75 and IASocFan repped this.

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