You can view the highlights here ----> http://www.superliga2007.com/ My question is in regards to the goal scored by Chivas. Clearly the ball hit the hand/arm of the goal scorer right before he volleyed the shot. Is it possible that the ref saw this incident and decided not to make the call because he felt it was incidental? Or should the handball have been called regardless of "intent". Opinions??
I was wondering if this game was going to come up. Quite frankly, I think it's borderline and could have gone either way. My gut reaction on the first look was that I would have called it and I see no reason to change my mind after watching it about 10 times. The Chivas player makes a deliberate action with his arm and strikes the ball downward with his hand. "Deliberate handling" seems like a justified call. That being said, I can see the counter-argument: his arm was only up in the air because of the awkwardness of the collision with the Dallas player and, with his next step, he has to bring his arm down for balance, and the ball just happened to be there, so that's why he struck it with his arm. That's the counter-argument. And really, it's not that I don't buy it (think about it--his arm does have to come down in that next stride), it's just that my gut reaction is handling and that's what I would have called. In the end, I think a referee could be justified calling this either way; it's just unfortunate that it led directly to a goal. Honestly, the more interesting scenario to me was the send off. Found at the following link (2:44-3:57): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EO-GeBG2DY The result of the play was a free kick for Chivas and a red card to the Dallas player (#14) who went after the Chivas player. I think, in that regard (separating the players, calming things, and only having to issue one card) the referee and especially the near side assistant (Quisenberry) did very well. But--and there's only one replay to partially support this and it's not a great angle--I think they may have missed the initial red card/PK. You can see that the Chivas player definitely brings his elbow up into the Dallas player as he passes by. He falls so spectacularly that I believe the referee thought it to be a dive. But, not only does there seem to be visual evidence of an elbow but let's also take the circumstantial evidence: no player jumps up like that and randomly and violently attacks an opponent without provocation after diving. He clearly felt aggrieved and retaliated. So, all in all, I think Dallas fans have more of a complaint on the non-PK/red card than on the handling/goal decision. The goal came from a call that really could have gone either way. The red card, though, I think resulted from a missed penalty call.
Thank you very much for the assesment. That makes a lot of sense. I guess the way I saw it was that the Chivas player clearly benefitted from the unintentional handball and so that should be a factor, but I guess it isn't.
That's correct - whether the player benefitted from it does not make a difference as to whether the call should be made...
Massref hit the nail on the head with respect to the referee missing the elbow. Should have restarted with a penalty kick and a send off of the Chivas player. If this had happened the retaliation would probably not have occurred. As Vinnie Mauro has often said. Watch. If you think a player gets up and slaps another player for no reason, you missed something, heh. I also agree a handball should have been called. The Chivas player had enough time to have kept his arm up. He purposely brought it down to control the ball. Two bad misses by the Costa Rica referee.
i agree handling should have been called...looked deliberate...goal should have been disallowed IMO... the most likely reason for the elbow not being called was that the CR and AR must have not seen it...i only saw it after the 3rd replay...the FCD player unfortunately got caught in the old "the one who retaliates is usually the one that gets caught" rule...very unfortunate...i don't know if they have any provisions for review in SuperLiga...if so, the Chivas player may see a suspension...that was a vicious elbow...
Mass and Alberto Do you think that the positioning of the referee caused him to miss it or he just ignored it hoping that the Dallas player would not react to it. Secondly what do you think quisenberry could have done differently. Maybe said 2 red cards?? I cannot tell wheter he (chivas) throws the elbow or holds it up for defense.
Looked to me like he had a clear view of the play. He certainly could have been closer to play and the AR was close enough to play to have seen it. I think if the FC Dallas player retaliates it's two send offs. I think if the referee had blown the whistle and quickly moved to the spot of the foul there is a chance the retaliation could have been avoided.
on the red card the Chivas player also really made a meal out of that little bit of contact with his chest or maybe his neck. He went down like he had been shot. I think it's possible a caution would have been enough there. But Moor was very naive to attack the guy like he did. for me, for sure it was deliberate handling. He basically dribbled the ball down to his foot with his outstretched hand. The referee just flat out missed it, I think.
Do you think the AR was in a bad postion from what i can see on the clip he is in line with 2nd last defender and there players between he and the situation? Who was the AR and does he have the guts to raise the flag?
This is the AR that had the guts to raise his flag for a DOGSO send off on the goal line in an MLS Cup. So yeah, I think he's got the guts. But I'm sure a FIFA AR appreciates having his courage and character questioned.
I spoke with QUisenberry at a Q and A a month ago. I asked him what he saw and He said he could not see the Elbow because he had 2 players along with the dallas player infront of him so he only saw MOOR falling down. He said he has since been told he has to know that a player does not fall for no reason and then go attack a player. He should have anticipated that moor does not respond in that way. He did not have a gut feeling as towards any illegal play when it happened, They only saw it after the game in the video review at the hotel that the elbow was used. He would not comment as to what US soccers opinion, and superliga's opinion was on the play. Just said he was not lucky enough to get it right and he has since used it as a learning tool for himself as to the psychological reaction of players .... Fustration vs unintelligent play