Favre -> Time to part ways

Discussion in 'Borussia Dortmund' started by BvB_Peon, Oct 5, 2019.

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Time to part ways with Favre?

  1. Agree

    92.3%
  2. Disagree

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Not sure

    7.7%
  1. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    I feel this is the time to part ways with Favre. I suggest closing this tread when he is finally replaced. The results are bad but for me the worse part is the inability to take crucial/important decisions. We need rotation and we have the player on the bench to rotate without losing too much value on the field if done right, yet week in week out we see the same tired squad while rested players look the game from the bench.

    So what are you reason to want Favre gone? Who do we replace him with in interim? Who do we want on the long term? Anybody still feels he should remain?
     
    Blueberry_night and hava repped this.
  2. Dage

    Dage Member+

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Echte Liebe! Even for you guys it's a bit early in the season to panic and kick your manager. There's not even a team without problems. And you will fire your coach because of of of.. an own goal? Get a grip.
     
  3. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    I think Beckenbauer once criticized his players during the World Cup 1990 that he couldn't understand how players that are so good can play in such a stupid manner. I'm similarly at a loss if I had to explain certain aspects when I watch our team play. Good coaches form teams that are more than the sum of its parts. I don't see that. A few players may be underperforming so far but that can't be the excuse for how the team performs in general.

    But I'd prefer not to have another interim solution like we recently had with Stöger. At that time, a change was necessary because the team's confidence was destroyed and Bosz remained clueless. But the end result was still far below average for us. It's also disrespectful from our side towards the coach when we pretend he might get an extension if he does well when that was never really an option.
    Right now, I don't think the management is considering firing Favre. With Bayern and Leipzig losing points as well, our failure might not appear that dramatic if you only look at the table. But I agree, it's not only the results that give you reasons to worry about the team.

    Because Pochettino's name was thrown around in other threads, Tottenham lost big again today. I don't follow them and have no idea what their issues are. I only read some posts in their forums that hint at reasons for disgruntled players. I also don't know if we'd be on his radar because the fans of clubs like Madrid see him as a likely successor.
    So, as frustrating as it is, I don't want a coaching change without a better solution.
     
  4. astrophyz

    astrophyz Member

    Sep 23, 2016
    Boston, USA
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Egypt
    Reasons for having him OUT:
    - Not motivating the players, aka the mentality problem (that's the biggest one)
    - Not making tactical changes during the game
    - Not making tactical changes from game to game
    - Not resting players like Reus
    - (Not sure if this one is on him, but it's really bad IMO:) Not getting a backup striker in the summer! (Or keeping the young Swede)

    Reasons for keeping him:
    - If we can't find a SIGNIFICANTLY more accomplished coach. I'm thinking of the Allegris, Pochetinos, etc.. Other than that caliber, don't bother.
    - It's not good to bring a in a new coach mid-season. It'll take him some time to adapt to the team and the team to him.
     
  5. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    My guess is you have not watch any BvB games... There is a clear lack at the manager level that will only get worse with time. I'd have assume an MGBach fan would know this...
     
    Blueberry_night repped this.
  6. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    While I do agree that changing a coach in the middle of the season is not ideal. But at this point I don't really see an alternative. I mean unless you throw the season... At this point we are 7th, tomorrow we could be 10th but at the same time we may only be 4 points away from he first place. A change is a big gamble yes but no change means the certainty not to win the BL title, a quick exit in CL but probably a spot in CL next year. Is that really what we should be aiming for at this point just a CL Spot?

    You really think Sancho will want to stick around under these conditions?
    We at least need someone who understand the importance of rotation...
     
  7. Alex C

    Alex C Member

    Oct 27, 2015
    Chatham
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    It is a continuous theme now. Last season the BL title was thrown away with needlessly lost points in the run in and it's already started happening again.

    What is the point spending big money on players only to continue with a mid table coach? A mentally weak team is usually that way due to the atmosphere the coach creates. I don't think Favre is creating a winning/big club mentality or attitude which is needed to win titles.
     
  8. Arlo

    Arlo Member

    Nov 9, 2005
    Dublin, Ireland
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Ppl talk bout getting rid of him and all but no1 throws any names for potential candidates. Thats the problem i have, i don't see what we could replace him with
     
  9. Jiri Havran

    Jiri Havran Member

    Apr 8, 2016
    Oslo
    Club:
    Shanxi Baorong
    Nat'l Team:
    Czechia
    That’s exactly the case now, LF is clueless, applies tactics not suitable for the team, doesn’t rotate, and doesn’t give chances to young players. Morey would be a natural solution yesterday, Isak and Gomez were putted aside, and Balerdi and Zagadou are not trusted.
    I’d promote one from our youth teams, it can’t be worse, until the end of the season, and then we’ll see
     
    eaglespark repped this.
  10. Dage

    Dage Member+

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Show me 3 big teams in Europe who are currently winning consistently and with few to none goals against.
     
  11. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    Mourinho
     
  12. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    I agree that all these players still with us need to get integrated and we need a healthy competition for playing time within the team. But it's a common logical error to see an unsatisfying situation and think let's try this, it cannot get worse. Often in these hypotheticals, it can easily get worse but there is no way to tell.

    I think the management is still patient at the moment but they have also made clear that the reasons for failures so far have nothing to do with the quality of the team. So it's on Favre to make the team perform at the expected level. My hopes aren't that high he can turn it around.
     
  13. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    Exactly. Favre is a good manager for a certain type of team. A decent midtable team, wanting to overachieve and possibly make europe.

    He sets up the team to win the majority of home games and draw away. He is overly cautious and is happy with a draw.

    He does not know how to rotate with a high quality squad, does not know how to set up a team to dominate matches. Picks cautiously, does not encourage fluid passing.

    I am sick of him and nothing will improve. The time to get rid is now with the international break. We have a team capable of winning the CL, but with him we will struggle to get out of the group and won't win the Bundesliga.

    We must sack him.
     
    BvB_Peon repped this.
  14. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    #14 BvB_Peon, Oct 6, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
    But they are winning... right?

    And now to answer :
    PSG : 9 games 4 goals allowed. Differential of +13
    Liverpool : 8 games 6 goals allowed. Differential of +14
    Man City: 8 games 7 goals allowed. Differential +20
    ...
    Now ordinary team with few to non goals against :
    Gladbach 7 games played 6 goals allowed. Differential +9
    Wolfsburg 6.5 games played 4 goals allowed. Diffrential +5 (playing atm agaisnt Union)

    And I haven't went to Italy or Spain yet
     
  15. Dage

    Dage Member+

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The French league is a joke, like when BVB would be playing 2nd Bundesliga. Liverpool won their last game 4:3, didn't they? Real, Madrid, Bayern, Tottenham, are all hit and miss. Man City is twice as much away from 1st place than you, so much for that.

    And to your ordinary teams, I don't think you would take their managers, would you? Another answer could be, that BVB with their current crop of players is quality-wise more an ordinary team than a great team. Not Favre's fault, too.

    Since Klopp and even when Klopp was at BVB, your fans smash your managers like no one else. Yes, not even FC Bayern. You should at least imagine that it's not the manager's fault all the time. To kick Favre 7 match days into the season with 4 points totrail would make your club the laughing stock in Europe.
     
  16. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Ok, I try even if you came in with absolute no understanding about our frustration. This isn't solely about the results and not only about this season. You cannot seriously believe that this team, quality wise, should struggle against teams like Köln, Union, Bremen or a weakened Frankfurt team. Sure, you cannot prevent having the occasional bad games during a season, but this is a common theme.

    You are talking in terms of great teams, we are simply talking about a team that should play up to its standards. It's about the approach in the games, the formations, player selections, the inability to defend a lead and control games against inferior teams. Everybody who actually watches BVB games sees the same issues that have gone on way longer than these 7 games. Several other points were mentioned in this thread as well. It's ok if you don't watch our games, just don't come in here and pretend to know where we are coming from. At least Favre has changed small things like throwing in man-oriented defense for corner kicks after everybody was seeing how ludicrous it was how we defended set pieces before.
     
    BvB_Peon and astrophyz repped this.
  17. astrophyz

    astrophyz Member

    Sep 23, 2016
    Boston, USA
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Egypt
    In any case, for the long term, I think BVB should definitely be opening communication channels with Klopp. If they really want to take it to the next level, like they said, he may want to join us again whenever he's done with Liverpool. And he's the best coach to get the best out of his players.
     
  18. astrophyz

    astrophyz Member

    Sep 23, 2016
    Boston, USA
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Egypt
    Right now, the only coach who COULD be an upgrade that I know and who's available (I'm not an expert on all the BL coaches though) is Allegri. However, I'm not sure if there would be cultural problems/differences if an Italian coach comes to a German team. I have a sense that there may be, but again maybe a German or an Italian should weigh in on that :)
     
  19. Dage

    Dage Member+

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
     
    astrophyz repped this.
  20. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    So now your are shifting the goalpost? You ask something, I answer and then you say it doesn't count, here are other unrelated points you should defend... I'm sorry but this is not a serious analysis of the situation.

    I think any coach can do what Favre is doing right now. At this point I'd take any coach available as interim (preferably a young coach with ideas and with something to prove). Favre is going to have Reus an injury by never rotating him. And the results he can possibly attain will be average at best.
     
  21. Dage

    Dage Member+

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I didn't move the goalpost, I just do not agree that PSG is one of the big teams. Your other examples were wrong and proofed my point. Liverpool is the only big team consistently winning in the league but e.g. not in CL. And they had suspicious results there as well with a lot of goals for their opponents. Should all clubs now change their managers like a carousel?! D:
     
  22. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Well if PSG with the 5th highest wages in 2019 is not a big team but Dortmund is with 100M$ less in salary, please explain your definition... Neymar, Sylva, Cavanni, Mbappe and DiMaria to just name a few. For the rest you clearly don't understand our points nor have not watch any BvB games...
     
  23. Dage

    Dage Member+

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Just because they get pampered with oil money doesn't make them a great club. The French league is also a joke, the results there are incomparable obviously. Believe what you want, become the next Schalke. Change managers every year. Be frustrated and pissy. The better for other teams.
     
  24. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    So you have no clue and sputtering nonsense, I'll just ignore you for a while...
     
  25. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    If our management were serious when they said they objective this season was to win the league then now's the time to prove it. Last year we had 9 points in front of everyone and still did not win the league. In the last 5 games with a possibility of 15 points we managed to secure only 6.
     

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