Father and sons duos in football

Inspired by the comments I made here (also correcting and adding myself, i.e. Valentino Mazzola), I thought it might be an interesting subject and created a thread:

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Valentino and Sandro Mazzola

In name and reputation probably the most eminent duo. Certainly in hindsight Valentino became perceived as one of the finest of his generation, and Sandro was two decades later a prominent figure in world football.
Yet it is also an unusual duo since Sandro lost his father aged six-and-a-half in 1949 and has, so he has said himself, only fragmentary memories. After his father and mother divorced in 1946 (which was seen as a scandal) Sandro lived for three years with his father. Custody trials straddled on after his father's death, while he got raised by his mother. His brother Ferruccio became a professional footballer too.

Father and son both captained the national team five times, and both became team captains of their club (Valentino between 1946 and 1949, Sandro between 1970 and 1977).


Cesare and Paolo Maldini

In name this duo probably comes second, but in tangible artifacts they might come first. Although Cesare is not someone to pop up (often) in all-time lists, he was actually - for real - seen as World XI material for a while during his active career, as well as named sometimes for ideal teams of tournaments before his son became famous (and, incidentally, also before Cesare became team captain).

Most famously, Cesare was the captain of Milan who won the European Cup at Wembley in 1963 (team captain between 1961 and 1966). He was the first Italian to lift the European Cup. His son - who had taken a 30% pay cut in the summer of 2002 - did the same 40 years later at Old Trafford.

Among many other similarities and achievements this pair with an aristocratic touch ('aristocratic' is not the same as 'flawless'...) was also team captain of their national side. Cesare was promoted to team captain status just after the 1962 World Cup and stayed this for two years (until age of 32). Paolo was this of course for eight years between 1994 and 2002, including years where his father was the manager (Cesare managed and coached Paolo during various stages of his life and career).

Certainly intriguing is the delicate approach Cesare took. Not the least in a potential conflict of interest, there is the risk for either being too pushy (often not a recipe for success) or being too laissez faire.

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Maldini made his debut for Milan at 16, a graduate from the youth team overseen by his father, Cesare. Did he benefit from nepotism?

'No, quite the opposite. He was much harder on me than the others,' Maldini recalls. That famously cool temperament was necessary when he had to live up to the enormous expectations that came with being Cesare Maldini's boy. Papa was the strong, elegant sweeper with a big personality who captained Milan to their first European Cup triumph in 1963. Papa also went on to manage the Italy side Paolo played in. If it felt odd he didn't show it. He ended up with 126 caps (112 more than Papa).

Says Cesare: 'I have never given him any advice. He doesn't need it; he always seems to know what to do. He still surprises me every day with his quest to always improve and to look inside as well. What makes me proud about Paolo? The way he behaves on and off the pitch and the fact that he has always played with Milan.'

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On the first day the 18-year-old Paolo - already an established AC Milan first team player - turned up to play for his father's under-21 side, he felt embarrassed: "With the under-21, the situation was embarrassing because, for better or worse, there were always people willing to say that I was a favoured son, only there because my dad was the team coach . . . I've always tried to forget that the coach is also my father but, anyway, since those early days, things have changed and people don't make certain accusations anymore."

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"My father taught me everything. From the moment I first remember seeing a picture of him holding the European Cup, I wanted to copy his success," Paolo told World Soccer magazine. "I think he was harder with me than with the other players in the youth teams at Milan. But I know that was only because he wanted to make sure no one could accuse him of showing any favoritism.

"In the long run, that made me try harder to succeed. I wanted to do it for myself, but I owed it to him."

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According to a few old reports Cesare thought in the mid-to-late 1980s his son had talent, physically and technically well-trained since a young age, but was "too much of a dreamer".



To be continued later, but of course this thread is meant to contribute, add and contemplate.

 

Thanks. Yes, I had Brian and Nigel Clough in mind for a third post (the third part). Where I will also link to this video. Brian his profile as a player is notable enough too.

 

Peter and Kasper Schmeichel



Peter Schmeichel forever sealed his legacy by being the victorious goalkeeper at the successful euro 1992 campaign (in contrast to what's sometimes remembered, he wasn't the 'official' captain and thus not the player to lift the trophy; unofficially though...). In that manner he is one of the few goalkeepers who can have a legit claim to be the outstanding player of a tournament. Schmeichel was held as an example for a few of the 'classic' 1990s goalkeepers, including 'successors' Fabian Barthez and Oliver Kahn.

Kasper Schmeichel became in 2016 only the second son to win the Premier League (the first was Shaun Wright-Phillips). As the starting goalkeeper he played a prominent part and has throughout the years deputized as captain when Wes Morgan was not available. In the 2015-16 campaign only the goalkeepers of West Ham United, Stoke City, Swansea City and Watford made more saves, while Leicester conceded the second fewest goals of the league.

Peter Schmeichel is next to Valentino Mazzola and Johan Cruijff one of the few (the only ones?) to be occasionally placed in a top 100 of all-time and ranks among the best goalkeepers of the past 30 years.

Not too long ago Peter defended Kasper live on television:
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...asper-schmeichel-after-nacer-chadli-free-kick


Johan and Jordi Cruijff



Ever since Jordi Cruijff (he has not brothers, only two sisters) started to kick a ball he has been portrayed as a classical tragic figure by (literary) journalists and writers. The story starts before he was even born, and indeed, he was Europe wide in the news surrounding the famous 0-5 match in Bernabeu (still not equaled by Barcelona to this day). By the time he started to kick a ball his father was worldwide almost unanimously seen as the most consequential (or 'influential') footballer since the war, and this was seen as unfortunate for him, as if his father had used up all the 'luck' that was reserved for him. In that vein a recent Irish headline wondered 'Enzo Zidane: the new Paolo or another Jordi?'.

Despite all the later injuries, and of course losing the comparison with the icons Giggs and co, it speaks for him though that Alex Ferguson saw something in him after he had played fairly well a few times for Barcelona against Manchester United (those games helped his cause for sure). In the end, not too many father and sons can say they have both scored a goal from open play at the European Championship, as well as both scoring a goal from open play at a (top level) UEFA or FIFA final (and both scoring at the quarter and semi finals too for that matter). He did this when he was finally injury free for a season.

It is a bit of a mystery to what degree Johan pushed his son to follow his footsteps. By most accounts he was liberal in allowing his son to seek his passion and drive, but demanding (with at times a wink) when Jordi found his joy and inspiration in football. Jordi would later say that the enthusiasm of his dad for the sport was contagious, which his demanding stance did not negate.

 

The next group I had in mind are sons of great managers. This is not necessarily a guarantee for a professional career, as evidenced by Paisley, Stein, Shankly and Busby. But the sons of Brian Clough and Alex Ferguson actually had one, a career of several seasons at the highest level.

Brian and Nigel Clough
Alex and Duncan Ferguson

It's a funny coincidence that both Nigel Clough and Duncan Ferguson - both forwards - represented their country at euro 1992 (among the final eight teams), which was also in both instances the only time they made the squad for a tournament.

While Nigel was not necessarily the lesser player with the lesser career, there is also here a similarity in that both Fergusons managed to score on the continental level while both Cloughs never did (Brian Clough his domestic strike rate is however fabulous and second to none).

I thought about writing a nice piece but I just don't want to pen over wikipedia or the usual articles (which I didn't do above either, I think). If someone else has them, that would be great.

This is a very nice video.



Peculiarly, Nigel Clough (a forward by trade) never scored a goal against his dad. Meanwhile, Duncan Ferguson has the best strike rate of his career against his father. Against mighty Manchester United he has a strike rate of around 0.50 (no pens), including two game winning goals in a narrow 1-0 win, and two goals in a 2-2 draw. Against no other side he has done better.



Other video:
"Duncan Ferguson helping them [Everton] qualify for the Champions League, 10 years after a Ferguson goal in the same fixture helped to keep them [Everton] in the Premier League."


edit: after checking again it appears that Nigel Clough never played against his father either, despite playing for five years for other clubs in England.

 

Oh my bad. I discover now I mixed up Darren and Duncan Ferguson

So that makes Nigel Clough as the only son of a great British manager with a noteworthy career?

Herbert Chapman his son was a rugby union player, and became later president of the Rugby Football Union.

Yes, that is a good one. Most notably Veron sr. played four Copa Libertadores finals, scored in one of them (a goal in each of the three legs in 1968). 13 goals in 29 Copa Libertadores games. One time league champion, four caps.

He also scored in two of the six Intercontinental Cup games.

 

Thanks (in my memory Brian Clough was related to the club for longer, in one or another way). Nigel Clough his appearances record on worldfootball and transfermarkt state that he never played against Forest, thus did not score either.

Eidur and Arnor Gudjohnsen are seemingly the only duo to play in the same national team game, although not together.

 

Such examples of a 'very good player' with a son with a (noticeably) better career are (double checked to be sure I don't mix up names... Duncan, Darren... );

Jean and Youri Djorkaeff

Unlike many of the other examples, those played markedly different positions. Jean was clearly a defensive player and Youri an offensive player. Both for club and country Youri had the more prominent career, with more trophies. Jean was still a 'good' player in his own right (only a dozen father and sons played at the World Cup) and he played in the farewell game of Lev Yashin alongside Mazurkiewicz, Facchetti, Bobby Charlton, Schultz, Muller and Dzajic. He was also first pick and thus not deputizing for absentees.

Miguel and Xabi Alonso

One of those dozen father and sons to play at the World Cup. In the 2006 'Perfect XI' Mario Kempes placed Miguel in his first team. His career at the top level lasted however only ~5 years. Was one of the main players behind back to back titles of Real Sociedad.

Pablo and Diego Forlan

Pablo was a defender (notorious for collecting red cards), Diego a forward. It's arguable maybe whether Diego Forlan had in his own time the better career. Maybe not. Argument can be made Diego Forlan wasn't that markedly better in his own position.

Frank and Frank Lampard

Frank Lampard senior was twice capped for England, in 1973 and 1980, played the 1976 Cup Winners Cup final (which his team lost). Won two FA Cups. When he retired a club legend but not really a domestic legend I think? I wonder what he had done for West Ham if he had been born about 10 years earlier.

Miguel and Pepe Reina

One of the nine (?) father and son duos to appear in a UEFA final. For the Champions League the Aguas (both for Benfica), Reinas, Maldinis and Sanchis (both for Real Madrid) are the only ones. Of these duos, the Aguas have come the closest to also score a goal.
Pepe Reina had arguably the better career than his father Miguel even though Miguel managed to keep a clean sheet and he did not.

 

Mazinho and Thiago Alcantara

Mazinho made the ESM team of the month when he was 32. National team career ended at 28 (quite a successful one).

 

There is maybe one other in Domingos and Ademir da Guia

Most probably Domingos was in his position the higher regarded player though (Placar placed Ademir only twice in their domestic best XI, including retrospective years, although this might be on the low end). Both played at a World Cup.

 

Maybe it is more surprising that so few sons of 'good' (or 'great') managers made it to a decent level. That only three of the top 200 legends (i.e. the top 200 names to appear in a top 100) made it to a solid pro level is maybe expected: footballers are paid to play, not to coach (and leadership skills of footballers are often misunderstood, overrated, romanticized and projected as well as narrowed down to visible traits).

When I have the time I will try to dig harder but apart from aforementioned Clough, Cesare and Johan (who would both qualify as 'good' coaches too - see the sincere comments of Trapattoni and Capello on both of them) there is also Harry Redknapp I thought about in my mind (checked whether Jamie is really his son! ).

 

The Cudicinis are indeed father and son. Lorenzo Buffon is however family related (cousin of Gianluigi's grandfather) but not his father.

Anyway, I will continue with digging when I have the time.

Here a video demonstrating this:

 

Two fine articles:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...people-think-s-OK-tell-ll-never-good-dad.html

https://amp.independent.ie/woman/ce...-for-children-of-famous-parents-26652085.html

 

During the travel I listened to an interesting 'marathon interview' where he actually says some interesting things (also on why he hasn't accepted a job higher up, despite being asked), but difficult to lay down the gist of it without making it too long or distorting it (the nuances in particular). It is on many levels very interesting. Also some musical hints in between



He mentioned that racing drivers make probably the most successful father-son pair, if one perceives that as a sport. He's probably right.

He also said it would be false to say he was unfortunate, because he did have smart parents who were well-off, but he never asked for being known before he was even born (causing a diplomatic row), nor that people expected 'miracles' just because his father could influence things for the better inside and outside football - yet at the same time almost always said "you'll never be as good as your dad, luck has a limit" (see also the Kasper Schmeichel interview above!). Anyway, in many ways nice and interesting to hear.

In the English language he has said these comments though:

"When you grow up with a dad like Johan Cruyff, who’s constantly talking about football, you end up learning a lot about the sport. It’s not even really your choice" (2013)

"My mum was always blamed for my dad not going to the World Cup. But it wasn’t that at all. I now see things clearer. When I was young, I was never allowed to go on school trips and outings and if I wanted a sleepover my parents were always a bit cautious. They were probably afraid someone might try something. My parents were instructed by the [Dutch] police never to talk about this in public, as it might give other people ideas."

"It started when I was 20 years old and I had a knee injury. I went to see two doctors in Spain who said my career was finished. Funnily enough I played until I was 35. It did open my eyes. Wow. An alarm. I was not ready to fall back on anything besides my parents at that time if something goes wrong. So I applied myself to study and preparation. I studied business management when I was in the first team of Barcelona. When I was a Man United player I went to do a post-graduate course in marketing. So I was always open to learn new things and develop myself. I experienced a lot of things – happy days, sad days, I had 12 operations, a lot of injuries, sitting on the bench, being in the stands, playing … I have been through all the emotions of sport. That helped me to understand how players might think."

"The first principle as a father is you will never push your son to do something that you know he is going to fail in. In the end that is painful because you are hurting the son. I always believe if there is some kind of talent then go for it 100%, follow your passion. My father was a typical Dutchman [What is that then ??? this???], live and let live and go your way."


I can also recommend the Nigel Clough video for the ones who are interested. He was in the euro 1992 squad for which only 8 teams qualified for. I'll try to dig further for both players and sons of managers (the latter perhaps being more peculiar).

 

Yes there are some more in auto racing (very successful father and sons): Andretti, Brabham, Fittipaldi, Piquet, Magnusson and a half dozen more. I'd say it is a positive that the legendary commentator Murray Walker does not speak about 'genetics' but mentioned to Channel 4 'driving something competitively since you get out of your cot'.

What you say on accessibility probably plays a part; the parental background likely (middle or upper class); the more structured work-life balance of the father. Relatively speaking. As far as I know for example golf or tennis is more chaotic in schedules. Definitely there are more days they have to sit in an airplane.

Speaking of this, Maldini junior was born and raised when his father had retired as an active player. He has two brothers and three sisters. Afterwards Cesare Maldini had jobs in coaching/management close to home. I don't want to suggest this is the most structured nine-to-five routine, but it can help.

Another good point is that actually only 0.02% of enrolled football players reach the highest division, and as Maldini jr. says in the very first post the standards the environment puts upon the kids can be higher, not lower.

Also, most sportsmen need to think quite selfish, single-minded and egoistic to be good. This does not mean everyone is an alfa-male, let alone take it back to home, but to some level they all have it and they have to place their professional career first.

Still, it is surprising that the 'good' managers and coaches don't score any better. Not only or good/great players paid to play and not coach, a crucial substantial part of their make-up is their (cultivated) athleticism and instincts/reactions.
For managers and coaches that is not the case (or in other words: their core abilities would be more applicable for nurturing people).