I know half you backward yanks aren't from London, Manchester, Liverpool etc. So why do you fucking support them? Support you're own shit, local teams like the minority of us.
Good point there pig man. Nothing I hate more than people who support the big teams instead of their local clubs, put them down I say.
In all honesty, why do you post on an American soccer forum if you are so hostile to foreign fans? I just really don't understand the Europeans who come on these boards where they are bound to interact with so many 'plastics', 'gloryhunters', etc., and then they turn around and complain about them. Surely there are hundreds of UK forums, why don't you just stay on those ones? Presumably the 'fake' fans on this site aren't even worth discussing the sport with, so short of having an unfulfilled superiority complex, I don't understand why you even bother.
A lot of us do support our own shit, but when our season is over and our own shit isn't playing, then we support other shit. It's that whole love of the game thing. Foreign concept maybe, I know.
As someone who holds memberships with both the Arsenal and the NY Red Bulls, perhaps I can shed some light on this for you, at least from my own personal perspective (esp. since you tried to take a shot at me in the Red Bulls forum, betting I'm not from North London, asking "Arsenal fan, eh?"). In 1985, I lost my local team, the Cosmos (perhaps you've heard of them). My best friend's father had been a Gooner since seeing them a few times in '71, and I always admired the programmes, tops, etc. he would show us from trips he took abroad. So when I was a grad student living in London in '94, I was drawn to Highbury, and I've had a deep passion for the Arsenal since (whether we're "boring, boring" or "scoring, scoring"). I went back home to NY and on my birthday in '95 a new team was formed in a new league. I've followed them passionately, too, from more valleys than peaks, through twelve seasons of MLS. Since they never play one another, and never play at the same time, supporting both teams has never presented a conflict. I fly over to watch the Arsenal live whenever I can and watch, or at least listen, to nearly every match they play via cable or my Arsenal TV subscription. So no, I don't see myself as a "glory hunter," though perhaps I should be sympathetic towards someone with such resentment, who's probably never had such joy as I had in that pic that currently serves as my avatar.
Indeed! Support your local club. The strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways.
Without foreign fans football in England would not be the same. Where do you think the money for the Premiership comes from? And that money filters down to middling clubs like your own. So for all your bravado-hatred of big clubs and their foreign fans, it directly affects your own "shit". Like someone has said, if you oppose foreign fans don't register and join "foreign" football forums. Practice what you preach. Now, disappear to the bowls of hell and drink puss......
utter bullshit. perhaps a slight amount 'filters down', as you say, but it goes far and away disproportionately to the 'big' clubs. foreign capital has done the competitiveness of top-flight english football a huge disservice. sure, a 12th place prem club now gets much more cash than a 12th place serie A or la liga club, but what good is it, really? that's not who they play. your first sentence is absolutely true, it wouldn't be the same. but for fans of any clubs other than the 'big four' (and maybe one or two others), the response can quite rationally be "yes - it's far worse." as an american who's been following english football since the 70s, i can very honestly say that i empathize greatly with vietnamredstar. despite the fact that i very much appreciate being able to watch spurs, as opposed to just reading about them in the sunday times, i fully recognize the manner in which foreign capital (and tv moneys, sponsorship moneys, or any other revenue streams that replace the supporters' financing) has undermined the communal aspects of english football. not that you'd give a shit, of course, as you've no communal ties to 'your' club, at all. but the locals do, and their resentment is perfectly rational.
While obviously as a Tottnumb supporter you're no "glory hunter" (enjoy the Careless Cup ), he's still directing his rage at you, as a Yank. And let's face it, "following english football since the 70s" was pretty hard until the Internet and FSW/FSC. A scoreline in the Tuesday paper was all we got. Harry Boulton makes a great point: bizarre irony for someone to adopt such a stance on bigsoccer.com of all places, where a new sense of "communal ties" has emerged. And resentment is never rational. It is the clearest sign of weakness and inferiority.
You think the locals resent fans abroad? Do you lump yourself in there? Are you from London or are you an international supporter like the rest of us? I find it hard to believe that the majority of local fans resent fans abroad. Thanks to television and the internet, we're part of the support base too. The more the merrier, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find any resenting local fans. Vietnam-boy here is an exception because his club is shit and well . . look at the photo above. BTW, if you take away ticket and merchandise sales by international fans, those clubs aren't anywhere near as rich as they are right now. Why do you think the big four and clubs like Barcelona and Real Madrid are rolling in money? Because of their dedicated home fanbase? Think again, dude. P.S. DoctorK and I both support our shit, local clubs. FYI.
and a slew of 'resenting local fans' with whom i've had the very conversation over the last three or four years.
What I don't understand is why the resentment is necessarily directed at foreign fans and not the greedy executives who have chosen to cater to them. Isn't it perfectly conceivable that the Prem and English football in general could have had foreign fans (like yourself in the 70's) without it necessarily becoming what it has now? Obviously there wouldn't have been as many foreign fans and less income from international tours and merchandise, but (and maybe this is naive) if the owners and executives in English football would have had the interests of the game at heart instead of profits, a better balance could have been struck whereby the local fan wasn't alienated and foreign fans still got to enjoy a high level of football. Edit: And it seems to me that quite a few English posters on these boards are not as hostile as vietnamredstar and others of his ilk. Doesn't one of the mods on the Arsenal board even actively help foreign fans in getting tickets to games? The ex-pats and English posters on the Chelsea board don't seem to resent foreign fans at all either. What they resent is a lack of knowledge about the history of the club or Shevchenko and Ballack fanboys who support a player and not the club, but by and large I'd say they are far more accomodating.
oh, believe me, it's not focused on foreign fans, by any means. the focus of resentment is precisely upon those executives who cater to not just foreign fans, but countless other non-fan-based revenue streams ... (and here's the key part) ... to the detriment of established supporters. no one (or few, anyway) begrudges the clubs' pursuits of alternative revenue streams, except when it manifests itself in a rejection of the supporters' interests. the manner in which english clubs give the finger to thier base support (all the while taking them and their revenues for granted) is galling to those who've given so much to those clubs. absolutely correct. and if that's what those clubs had chosen to do, i suspect you'd see nothing like the kind of resentment that occasionally manifests itself. regardless, the implication that foreign support is doing domestic supporters some kind of favor is simply not on.
Those are Yids for ya. I've made the trek to London to see my team, schmoozed with local fans, and I even run into locals in my bar in New York. I've been met with handshakes, hugs . . never resentment. Maybe it's because Fulham are shite and locals are happy to get all the support they can, but whatever. It's a non-issue for me . . I support who I support regardless of what anyone else thinks.
not yids, actually. it's been conversations primarily in birmingham and sheffield, as well as a few in london. and i don't mean to imply that i've ever gotten any personal grief - nor even that it's likely that anyone else will. there is not some huge campaign against foreign fans out there. all i'm saying is that there is more to the thread-opening post than a rude, irrational rant - and that the implication (assertion, even?) that "clubs like your own" (meaning, i suspect, smaller clubs) should be grateful for the influence of foreign capital is to clearly misunderstand the dynamics of being a longstanding supporter of a typical english league club.
I think most of us are pleased to see you following our league, that's why we come on this forum. Some people on Blackburn's board follow them as well as you can do from over there, I can't believe the lengths they go to to watch a game sometimes, makes my weekly drive down the motorway seem like the easy option. You're right about the lack of knowledge and the people who follow clubs for bizarre reasons, that can be annoying. Actually a lack of knowledge is fine, it's a lack of knowledge and then gobbing off like you're the expert that's annoying. No problems with anyone who's started to show an interest, the more the merrier. What're wrong are fans over here who have their own local teams, even Premier League ones, but choose to follow one of the big 4 "passionately" and mouth off constantly but without ever going to a game, apart from maybe the odd one on their birthday, when they were 8. There is no excuse for that.
That's where the resentment lies, and a lot of it. Yep. Because of the reason above, being that people who have given a lot to their clubs are given the finger in return, many of us would not particularly mind if we threw in all the money and went back to having our football clubs back. But yeah, that's where the resentment lies, with the money grabbing executives not foreign fans. Maybe it comes accros like that sometimes but it's not the case. Well with most of us anyway.
It's a free country. People can support anyone they want. Besides, young people always get a kick from knowing they support a better team than anybody else. It's just the way it is!
But do any of you Americans have a reason for supporting a team in the Premiership? I have no real problem with foreign fans though since they all go to Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, and Man U, and stay well clear of Bolton, I'm happy for all them to sell out as long as we never do. The way I see it, most Americans will have British origins so why don't you trace them back and see what team your great great grandparents or whatever supported, everyone has a football team in their family, or just see what City they were from and support that team. That way you would actually have links to the club. Personally and obviously I can't speak for all of you I would prefer to support a club that actually means something to me rather than just wanting to support a better team than the other person, but I can understand how it would be hard to grasp this due to all that franchise bollocks in America.
Well because they are trying so hard to get Americans to support them, just look at the signings they have made purely to get Americans on board, and as a result it has hurt them lots. When they sold to Al-Fayed aswell it was obvious he bought the club purely to make a franchise out of it. I mean I don't blame him, and I don't dislike Fulham, they just got rid of their traditions to cater for the foreigners looking for a team.