Fact or Fiction: The Russian Premier League will be the 6th best league in UEFA within 5 yrs

goliath74 · Apr 23, 2011

palynka said: ↑

Braga scored a goal in the first ninety minutes. Rebound or not, how does that not count as a chance when Alan got a touch inside the goal box?
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Alan did not get a touch on the ball. No portuguese player touched the ball, aside from the player who served a corner.

goliath74 · Apr 23, 2011

GoodDead said: ↑

Apparently goal scoring chances that are not on target but do beat the keeper do not count as goal scoring chances. Meanwhile shots right at the keeper are as good as half a goal

Who cares what he says his team is out of the tourney because Braga was better and earned it, end of discussion. Sour grapes is sour grapes.

Portugal and Netherlands are tied for the 6th best league IMO the differences being the have financially better structure throughout their league and we have at the moment a better technical and tactical approach to our football, youth, buying/selling.

Russia just has money, the end. The fact that they buy so many Portuguese players should be an indication of where their league is on the scale.
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How many is so many? About 5 years ago there were up to 10 Portuguese players (7 of which - at Dinamo Moskva in a failed portuguese experiment). Today - maybe three. Alves, Danny, who else?

palynka · Apr 23, 2011

goliath74 said: ↑

Alan did not get a touch on the ball. No portuguese player touched the ball, aside from the player who served a corner.
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Are you blind? The first defender clears the ball into Alan which deflects onto the other defender and it's a goal. Start at 1m06 for a clear view.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUKqlJuY2os#t=01m06s"]YouTube - ?????? ????? "?????? ???? - ?????" 1:1[/ame]

goliath74 · Apr 23, 2011

palynka said: ↑

Are you blind? The first defender clears the ball into Alan which deflects onto the other defender and it's a goal. Start at 1m06 for a clear view.

YouTube - ?????? ????? "?????? ???? - ?????" 1:1
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YOU are blind, the ball hits Vukojevic (Alan does not touch the ball), Vukojevic directs the ball into Husev, the ball bounces the ball off Husev's shin right into the net. In fact, the commentators of the match LIVE, thought it was Vukojevic in the first place who scored the autogoal. Had Alan kicked the ball into Husev, it would have counted as Alan's goal. But he did not as he never touched the ball. It is clear from the video you posted.

See the 1:14 - 1:15 of the video, on replay - the ball does not even get to Alan! Alan's feet are not even in position to play the ball!

The episode you've posted (which is even less inclusive than the one I posted) actually includes the conversation, in which the commentators state that Dynamo should have run over Braga based on the chances in the first 20 minutes of that match alone and Braga's goal they consider to be the most unusual.

palynka · Apr 23, 2011

goliath74 said: ↑

YOU are blind, the ball hits Vukojevic (Alan does not touch the ball), Vukojevic directs the ball into Husev, the ball bounces the ball off Husev's shin right into the net. In fact, the commentators of the match LIVE, thought it was Vukojevic in the first place who scored the autogoal. Had Alan kicked the ball into Husev, it would have counted as Alan's goal. But he did not as he never touched the ball. It is clear from the video you posted.

See the 1:14 - 1:15 of the video, on replay - the ball does not even get to Alan! Alan's feet are not even in position to play the ball!

The episode you've posted (which is even less inclusive than the one I posted) actually includes the conversation, in which the commentators state that Dynamo should have run over Braga based on the chances in the first 20 minutes of that match alone and Braga's goal they consider to be the most unusual.
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Seriously, if you can't see the ball hitting Alan at the sequence starting 1:06 then you're not worth talking to.

GoodDead · Apr 24, 2011

The ball never touched Alan but that is besides the point. Braga is a better team and is in the semi finals, Kyiv is out, their dream is over and that is that.

goliath74 · Apr 24, 2011

A better team wins, Braga never won.

GoodDead · Apr 24, 2011

wow on second look it look like the ball does hit Alan's thigh pausing the vid goliath posted the ball is kicked by the defender and looks to go straighit in but a freeze frame at 1:14 shows the ball after the defender kicks to be at Alan's thigh and not on its way to the net, and afterward head right in. pal, I stand corrected.

GoodDead · Apr 24, 2011

goliath74 said: ↑

A better team wins, Braga never won.
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Your right Kyiv is the better team for conceding at home and being outplayed by 10 men away. That's why they are in the semi's.

...oh wait.

goliath74 · Apr 25, 2011

GoodDead said: ↑

wow on second look it look like the ball does hit Alan's thigh pausing the vid goliath posted the ball is kicked by the defender and looks to go straighit in but a freeze frame at 1:14 shows the ball after the defender kicks to be at Alan's thigh and not on its way to the net, and afterward head right in. pal, I stand corrected.
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Oh, I wonder what changed your mind, an input from your blind mouse buddy Palynka? How come you went against your comrade!

Alan's body does not even come close to the ball at any point. At every point of the episode his body is screened by Vukojevic. At no point does any piece of his body come in contact with the ball. Moreover, the ball hits the feet of Vukojevic and nothing else.

goliath74 · Apr 25, 2011

gooddead said: ↑

your right kyiv is the better team for conceding at home and being outplayed by 10 men away. That's why they are in the semi's.

...oh wait.
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1:1 (with a comic autogoal aiding Braga), 0:0

palynka · Apr 25, 2011

goliath74 said: ↑

Oh, I wonder what changed your mind, an input from your blind mouse buddy Palynka? How come you went against your comrade!

Alan's body does not even come close to the ball at any point. At every point of the episode his body is screened by Vukojevic. At no point does any piece of his body come in contact with the ball. Moreover, the ball hits the feet of Vukojevic and nothing else.
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The video I posted changed his mind. So? It's a sign that he's not clinging to his opinions regardless of the facts. Maybe it's because he's not afraid his ego shatters into a million pieces.

The blindest man is the one that does not want to see.

BocaFan · Apr 25, 2011

GoodDead said: ↑

Portugal and Netherlands are tied for the 6th best league IMO the differences being the have financially better structure throughout their league and we have at the moment a better technical and tactical approach to our football, youth, buying/selling.

Russia just has money, the end. The fact that they buy so many Portuguese players should be an indication of where their league is on the scale.
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Unfortunately, money is the most important factor which impacts the quality of a league. Otherwise Brazil and Argentina would have the best leagues in the world.

GoodDead · Apr 27, 2011

palynka said: ↑

The video I posted changed his mind. So? It's a sign that he's not clinging to his opinions regardless of the facts. Maybe it's because he's not afraid his ego shatters into a million pieces.

The blindest man is the one that does not want to see.
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The freeze frame at 1:14 did it for me. At 1:10 or so the defender kicks the ball if it was an own goal it would of been on its way into the net or not even in the frame at 1:14 but low and behold the ball is coming off of Alan's knee.

Other angles show the ball go direct into the net at first glance but there is something awkward about how it goes about it. The other angle pal showed explains it. It happened extremely fast but there is no other explanation for the ball to be where it is after the defender makes contact to be at Alan's knee and not on its way to the net. he actually kicks it away from goal.

GoodDead · Apr 27, 2011

goliath74 said: ↑

1:1 (with a great goal off alans knee following a clearnence from kyiv), 0:0 with 10 men unlucky not to put 3 balls in the back of the Kyiv net. British commentators post game even stated Braga was the dominant team with much more Chances and Kyiv didn't have a response
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fyp

GoodDead · Jul 5, 2013

Oh Hi guys:
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2014.html

Its's 5 years! Who wants to be the first to admit they were wrong?

Or does the fact that Russia STILL has a lot of oil money (and can't do anything with it)outweigh the fact that their teams can't do anything significant in Europe?

GoodDead · Jul 5, 2013

GoodDead said: ↑

I wish I didn't even bring that point up because Russia won't make it to 8 points at all and my statement implies that I believe they have a good chance.
-March 2009
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And they didn't

Even when I was generous to Russia about what they could expect and why it wouldn't be enough, they failed.

GoodDead · Jul 5, 2013

GoodDead said: ↑

Reach 5th? They are dropping to 7th at the start of next year.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2011.html

We can now close this thread. It was indeed FICTION.
-2010
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3 years later.... still Fiction.

BocaFan · Jul 5, 2013

GoodDead said: ↑

Its's 5 years! Who wants to be the first to admit they were wrong?
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Go ahead (ladies first).
You said that Russia would become the next Romania and nowhere near as good as Eredivisie and Portugal. 5 years later... they are nothing like Romania and still ahead of the Netherlands.

GoodDead · Jul 5, 2013

That's about as much as I expected.

Now just need goliath to come up with made up stats based on his opinion and how you all meant starting......nnn...nnnn......now Russia will be the 5th best league in 5 years.

p.s. Dutch league is still better the last 2 years shows that. Romania became the new Austria so I was wrong about them, not Russia which is what this thread is about. But you'd have to ignore that fact to post, which you did.

goliath74 · Jul 5, 2013

It's been 5 years?

Well, Russia has certainly made it to 6th, haven't they? In fact, a few times over the last 5 years.

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2010.html
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2009.html

So, Russia has certainly been 6th best within the 5 years. They are not the 6th best right now.

BocaFan · Jul 8, 2013

GoodDead said: ↑

p.s. Dutch league is still better the last 2 years shows that. .
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Just curious how you arrived at this conclusion? Russia got twice as many coefficient points as Netherlands last season despite having less teams (58.5 points with 6 teams compared to 29.5 points with 7 teams).
Netherlands did better the season before that (2011-12) but overall Russia were better in the last 2 years. And more importantly, they got more points over the past 5 years which is what counts, not your randomly selected time frame.

GoodDead · Jul 8, 2013

goliath74 said: ↑

It's been 5 years?

Well, Russia has certainly made it to 6th, haven't they? In fact, a few times over the last 5 years.

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2010.html
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2009.html

So, Russia has certainly been 6th best within the 5 years. They are not the 6th best right now.
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The thread started when they were in 6th and the argument was that the league would rise in 5 years so it would be clear to all that their league is the 6th best. Not in stats or in public opinion did that come true in any way.
/THREAD

goliath74 · Jul 8, 2013

GoodDead said: ↑

The thread started when they were in 6th and the argument was that the league would rise in 5 years so it would be clear to all that their league is the 6th best. Not in stats or in public opinion did that come true in any way.
/THREAD
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Actually, it did. Russian league rose and fell within the last 5 years and had been 6th both in stats and in public opinion.

Waliatiger · Jul 10, 2013

Funny thread, Russia has the money, big time players will only go through for the excess of money they get (Eto) and they have a few decent clubs. The CL success is still not the best when it comes to overall representation. The weather their sure is harsh but what Central, Northern or Eastern European country weather isn't harsh during the cold season. The domestic league is better then I thought it would be. And their NT is mostly drawn from their domestic league which is what i always like to see.