A pretty solid rumor has it that teams can protect 10 players for the expansion draft. There is speculation that a team can protect an additional player once someone on their team has been picked in the draft. So, who do you protect--either b/c you want them next year or you think you can get better value via trade after the expansion draft? Does anyone know the status of the internationals' contracts (ie are they for more than 1 season)? For the purposes of this thread, let's pretend that all international players currently on the team plan on returning. Here is one list of a possible 10 to protect. I think if I made this list tomorrow it would be different. 1. Jönsson 2. Tarpley 3. Dieke 4. Klein 5. Rapinoe 6. Carney 7. Cristiane 8. Östberg 9. Spilger 10. Lloyd I am torn about putting Markgraf on the list of 10. I highly doubt either team would draft her since she's been out a year and has been quoted as saying b/f the WPS season that she'd only play for Chicago. That said, if she's back to even 90% of her old self, she's faster than Oakes and an upgrade on that back line. And does Chicago want to be forced to trade to get her back? I just couldn't see not trying to get value in return (ie trade) for a player like Lloyd (or your favorite headline player) that has underperformed. Chicago has picked up the rights to negotiate w/ Lotta Schelin. Would she really come to Chicago and leave OL? (Does Chicago have the $ to buy the rest of her contract from OL?) I don't know but I'd think the odds would be smaller if 1 of the 2 Swedes on the roster is not there (unless those two don't get on). If Schelin does come to Chicago, I'd think one of Lloyd, Tarpley, Cristiane would see less time. Chicago has to get rid of one international to have Schelin on the roster. (Jönsson, Östberg, Carney, Cristiane, and Garriock are the current 5). If Dalmy is unprotected, a team will pick her, which might be fine if you've got someone else to fill in on the left. I'm not convinced Chicago could.
I'd protect Dalmy over most of the players. I think my 10 would be: Cristiane Lindsay Tarpley Megan Rapinoe Karen Carney Brittany Klein Marian Dalmy Ifeoma Dieke Caroline Jonsson Carli Lloyd Heather Garriock I would take the chance that no one would pick Markgraf because of her age and because no one knows if she would even want to play for another team. I would take a chance on Ostberg, partly because of her age, but mostly because I don't know if the expansion teams will one to burn one of their international choices for her. If Spilger is drafted, then you protect Oakes or vice versa. Not protecting Lydia Williams could be a very dangerous proposition. She doesn't count towards your international picks and she is so young. But if you're confident that Jonsson is going to be around awhile, I guess you don't really need her for the next season or two. Krzysik has obviously totally lost favor or she'd be playing. Masar is the other real question mark for me. Nice player, but probably not a big enough difference maker to protect in the first round. So I guess my only two differences are Dalmy and Garriock over Spilger and Ostberg. I'd take Dalmy over Spilger, first because I think she is already a better player, second because she is two and a half years younger and third because Dalmy may get time with the national team which should improve her play, while Spilger will not get any international experience. Garriock over Ostberg because of age and potential.
I talked to margraff at the tailgate/cookout and asked her if she definately is playing for next year and she said yes. Your list is pretty much who I would protect as well, except Dalmy for Spilger. Although I like Spilger and she has earned her spot, she will not be protected in IMO. And what about Masar? Local girl. They like her. I have a feeling that Garriock, Krzysik, Igwe, Adams, Oakes may not be back.
I think you could gamble on not protecting Östberg if you protect Jönsson. I'm just wildly speculating here that Östberg would not want to play for another team - the two of them are old buddies from their national team.
But it isn't whether the player would refuse to play for another team, it is whether a team would then be forced to give something up in order to get them back. If having the other two Swedes (who haven't stunk up the joint) on the team is what gets Schelin (a player they seem to really want) on the roster ... How badly does Chicago want to get her? As for Garriock, why protect a player that has been injured pretty much the entire season? I mean, yeah, she could heal, bcm durable, and light the league on fire next season but I'd role the dice there. If (and that is a BIG if) Schelin does agree to terms (and OL agrees) then Chicago has to release/cut an international player. The Dalmy-Spilger choice was difficult and I agree that Chicago aren't likely to get an upgrade at the position if she were to be taken.
This first year IMO, is an experimental year in every facet for all teams. Many teams are going to do things different next year, whether to play in the same stadium, whether to have the same group of players, playing the same system, there may be a coaching change or two. Teams will look at salaries and decide if a player is worth keeping comparing salary vs. performance. Even probably where players are housed or staying. From what I understand many of the Red Stars players stay downtown near the gold coast, close to all the Chicago activities, restaurants, night life, etc. Awesome place to live but you could easily get distracted living in that area. Not saying any of them were. A lot of things will be looked at by every team in the league. Maybe some of this is off the intended topic but I think it's important that we realize the many factors that may be involved in making decisions for next year that will affect who stays and who goes. I think teams will learn from this first season and make adjustments/changes for next year. I think there will be a some trades made. Rodriguez may get traded from Boston. Weimer may get traded to Boston. It's hard to tell, but I could almost bet Carney, Christiane, Klein, Jonsson will be protected.
Good point to make but if it wasn't for the Swedish factor, it doesn't seem like Östberg has been making enough of a difference that Chicago would give up much to get her back. In that scenario, she would simply retire, which she was contemplating doing anyway until she got the offer to play with Jönsson. Doesn't sound like a gamble worth taking if you're an expansion team. Of course, what I don't know is just how important the Swedish factor is. Is it important to have both Östberg and Jönsson to lure a Swedish player without the funny dots over the ö to town? (I'm speaking of course about Schelin) And how likely are they to sign her even with Östberg and Jönsson?
I wouldn't have thought she'd be likely to come here w/ her contract at OL but why in the world would Chicago take her WPS negotiating rights if they didn't know something might be possible? I mean, it isn't like another team w/ a friend of Schelin's didn't already try. As for Östberg, Hayes didn't seem to decide whether she (Hayes) wanted her (Frida) to be a defender (center or outside) or a midfielder--kept moving her about. So maybe, given contract concerns (good point, MRAD12) she'll be left unprotected.
What about Nikki Krzysik, your highest defensive draft pick? I realize she hasn't been the answer this season to Chicago's defensive problems but do you leave her unprotected? One interesting thing I've noticed is that very few true rookies (fresh out of college) have been able to make a huge impact for their teams. The "new" players (non-national team players) who are making a bit of a name for themselves seem to be a little older and a few years removed from college, eg. Keeley Dowling, Lori Lindsey, Kandace Wilson, Tiffany Weimer, Brittany Klein. Which means you can't judge a player just on their impact the first year out of college. There really is evidence that players significantly develop for a few years after that and so the question is, who has the upside? who really has the potential to be one of the better 24 or 25 year-old players? Is Nikki one of them? Standout defender from Virginia - central D partner for 2 or 3 years with Becky Sauerbrunn.
Chicago fans might have a different thought on this, but Krzysik has barely been used in the last 10 games. They've went with more experienced defenders in Oakes, Spilger, Dalmy, Dieke, and Ostberg. My take on Krzysik is that she's pretty physical, not particularly fast, but could still develop into a decent player. But she absolutely needs to be paired with a speedy center back if she's going to play the middle. Unfortunately, the speed in the WPS makes the speed in ACC local like a snail's pace. It's one thing to mark a fairly talented college forward, it's another to go up against Marta one night, Aluko the next, Kai the next, and DeVanna the next. I thought she played really well in the opener against Saint Louis when I saw her, but obviously not so much since. Weimer has seen almost less action than Krzysik as of late and I doubt at this point that she will even be protected. One other thing and I have said this before...I think everyone, including me, expected too much out of the recent grads. They're competing against the US National Team, the best Brazilian players, the best Canadian players, the best English players, and some world class players from other countries. These players range in age from about 20 to about 33. So comparing one class of college seniors against 13 or 14 years of great international talent isn't necessarily fair. The average US National Team will have 2 or 3 players from each graduating class at the most.
What players do we protect and who's not coming back? I thought I'd start a thread on who we think is coming back for the Red Stars and who do we protect for the expansion draft and who may not come back. The 2009 Expansion draft will allow current WPS teams to protect 9 players from their current roster. Here is my selection/assumptions: 1. Caroline Jonsson- The only player to play every minute. 2. Brittany Klein- The little engine that never quits. 3. Lindsey Tarpley- Captain 4. Christiane- Leading goal scorer. 5. Marian Dalmy- Up and coming USWNT defender. 6. Karen Carney- Most dynamic player on the Red Stars. 7. Carli Lloyd- Started coming around toward the end of season. 8. Ella Masar- Works hard. Local kid. 9. Megan Rapinoe- 1st round draft pick and great skills. Will only get better. I wish we could protect more, but with only nine, these are the ones I see protected unless Frida Ostberg is put in place of one of the above. Who I don't see coming back (will be picked up by expansion or not re-signed) 1. Heather Garriock 2. Danesha Adams 3. Chioma Igwe 4. Nikki Krzysik- I think she will be picked up by expansion. 5. Natalie Spilger- I wish there was room to protect her. These are just my guesses and what I would do if I had to make the choice. Of course a lot of things can happen in the off-season. Maybe some of the foreign players decide not to come back or maybe some trades will be made and other factors. Anyone else have anything to add?
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? Well, I put my thoughts on the exapnsion draft in this thread.. Perhaps a kind mod can merge threads? The most up to date rumor I've seen on the boards has the protection list at 10. Did you forget about Kate? Or just assume no one is going to pick her in the expansion draft?
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? 1) What about Markgraf? 2) I've made the case elsewhere that I believe you can gamble on not protecting Östberg and still keep her 3) Have you heard for sure it's only nine? 4) What about Dieke? 5) When do the teams have to submit their lists? You may get a chance to see how Garriock does in the Australian league. 6) I somehow doubt that Masar makes the list (ahead of Markgraf, Garriock, Dieke, and maybe even Krzysik. I may still prefer Danesha Adams, too, but then I'm a UCLA guy...) 7) What about Krzysik? How do people feel about her upside potential? I've made the case elsewhere that players seem to steadily develop for 2-3 years after college so you can't always write off a player who just graduated
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? Maybe I'm wrong on the 9. I googled it and this is what I got: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_WPS_Expansion_Draft If someone knows different, please let us know. I Forgot about Markgraf. I would then protect Markgraf over Masar. I've also made these assumptions on the increase/decrease of playing time over the season and toward the end of the season Adams and Krzysik were getting little if any. Krzysik started a lot at the beginning then she hardly played at all. Either player may be able to get substantial playing time in another system. There's also Dieke to consider. Will be interesting.
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? I thought I read somewhere when they were talking about a timeline for Philadelphia that the expansion draft would be held fairly quickly after the season is over. From the Philadelphia Indepenence site: "Head Coach Matt Driver has done a terrific job of holding down mutliple jobs since March when Philadelphia was awarded the 8th WPS franchise. However, as Matt said, “our company is growing rapidly in preparation for our 2010 season start and it’s great to have Terry take over the reins as GM. We knew from the start that I would eventually need to transition exclusively to the team’s Head Coach and youth development positions and responsibilities. With the upcoming player mini-camp, summertime Independence youth programs, and August player drafts, it is time to bring Terry in as GM and have the two of us working together to achieve all our corporate and team goals. This organization just keeps getting stronger. I can’t wait until we can get on the field to compete with other WPS teams!” I know there was going to be a special international draft for the expansion teams and an expansion draft. I'm assuming this refers to those two drafts.
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? Sorry, last time I updated the page was before the "10 player" update started circulating... ^.^''' I'll update it with what we "know" so far.
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? Ok so it's 10 players that can be protected. Then my revised list: 1. Caroline Jonsson- The only player to play every minute. 2. Brittany Klein- The little engine that never quits. 3. Lindsey Tarpley- Captain 4. Christiane- Leading goal scorer. 5. Marian Dalmy- Up and coming USWNT defender. 6. Karen Carney- Most dynamic player on the Red Stars. 7. Carli Lloyd- Started coming around toward the end of season. 8. Ifeoma Dieke- Our fastest and most solid defender. 9. Megan Rapinoe- 1st round draft pick and great skills. Will only get better. 10. Kate Markgraf- Red Stars need a leader on defense. I dropped Masar in hopes that no one else picks her up, for Dieke. We need to keep Dieke, IMO. I'm also in the hopes that our college draft pick will be Lauren Cheney. A player like Cheney is the missing piece in our offensive puzzle for next year.
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? The 2009 Expansion draft will allow current WPS teams to protect 10 players from their current roster. Here is my selection from back to front: 1. Caroline Jonsson- The only player to play every minute. 2. Ifeoma Dieke- Our fastest and most solid defender. 3. Marian Dalmy- Up and coming USWNT defender. 4. Natalie Spilger - Helped stabilize our defense when we needed it badly. 5. Karen Carney- Most dynamic player on the Red Stars. 6. Megan Rapinoe- 1st round draft pick and great skills. Will only get better. 7. Brittany Klein- The little engine that never quits. 8. Christiane- Leading goal scorer. 9. Lindsey Tarpley- Captain 10. Ella Masar- Works hard. Local kid. Krzysik and Garriock are players I wish I could also protect but there's only room for 10. One lesson from this season is that the '99ers are pretty much done. Only Milbrett impressed me this year. Lloyd is dead to me. I don't want someone on my team who plainly does not want to be here. So I guess a CAM should be on Peter and Marcia's wish list. Can Markgraf really come back and play well in this league after having twins? We should look into getting a bigger, younger and cheaper defender for less money and fewer qestion marks. Finally, of course, we need a target forward. That would also create the benefit of either having Tarpley and Cristiane have to compete for the 2nd starting forward slot or we just move Tarpley back into midfield full-time.
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? I've got to believe that Chicago will protect Lloyd over Spilger or Masar. Garriock is the big question mark. They could gamble that the expansion teams won't want to use up one of their internationals on a player that's been injured most of the year. After watching the match last night and watching the highlights which are now up on the WPS site, Masar had a great game as far as getting herself in position to score and effort, but she should have finished a couple of those chances. But then, some of that is luck, too. She certainly came close several times. The other question is with the severity of Tarpley's injury and when will she be ready to play again. She may not be ready by next March if it's bad as it sounds. That might make it more likely that they will keep Masar.
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? For Peter Wilt: From the "Department of Dumb Questions": How does one GM approach another GM about a trade idea? I can imagine if a player makes it clear that he'd like to leave a team, you could expect a call, or you would be making calls. Is it like constant communication? ie: you're always talking, always considering a trade, always sharing info from other GMs about trades, needs/wants, etc? Do you need the coach and/or owner's OK to even talk about a trade? I would think that if you said "I'd really like [player]" that you would really hurt your negotiating power. Is the player included in the conversation? What if a player says "there's no way I can play for that sob" - does that happen? Is there a common step-by-step approach to trades/transfers? Thanks in advance for your reply.
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? Sadly, so do I. The power of "big names". Even if they turn in small performances. *sigh*
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? I don't know who they should keep but they need more speed and better defenders.
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? My thinking on protecting Lloyd (as I said in the other thread on expansion drafts) is that, despite her subpar performance this season, she has trade value. If they wait and see who Philly (or Atlanta but it might be easier to get Lloyd to agree to a Philly move) gets in the expansion draft and then see if they are willing to do a 2 for 1. They get a WNTer and a "name" and Chicago improves their defense by 2 and/or (possibly) draft picks. Another thing to remember (particularly w/ respect to Lloyd) is that Chicago has the WPS negotiation rights to Schelin. If she were to make the move from OL, would she play up top or as an attacking mid? Either way, I can't see Schelin, Lloyd, Klein, Rapinoe, Carney, Tarpley, and Cristaine all on the field at the same time. you think this year's team gave up goals.... If Schelin signs (and OL agrees) then someone has to go. (and mods, can we please merge these two threads?)
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? That's the point. I have to believe Lloyd still has far more trade value than, say, Spilger, because we know she can be a valuable player on the national team. She can make a difference at that level even though Red Stars fans weren't happy with her play this season. As much as I like Spilger, too, for filling in credibly on the defense, it turns out, doesn't it, that defense was a more glaring weakness than offense? So it hardly makes sense that you'd be protecting so many defenders. They're good players and they'll wind up somewhere, either on an expansion team or remaining with the Red Stars, but why think they make enough of a competitive impact to warrant protecting most of them? Would they even be that highly coveted by the expansion teams? Of course, the exceptions might be Markgraf, Dalmy, and Dieke. And possibly (because she's a true rookie and hasn't reached her potential) Krzysik. I think you have to protect Lloyd. (At the very least, you'd have to understand if the Red Stars did.) The big question in the midfield is Garriock and I'm not familiar enough with Australia's national team to say, except that she's a regular on that team so her name is familiar to me. (It would hurt to leave her unprotected and then have her put in a big season in the Australian league...) But the big names out of Australia of course are DeVanna and Walsh, and on the defensive end, Cheryl Salisbury and Dianne Alagich (if she's still playing). Speaking of defense, Salisbury is still a key player on Australia and she looked good to me in the last Olympics. She might be as much of an impact defensive player as you can find anywhere outside of Germany and Sweden - it's worth a thought. Jönsson Tarpley Cristiane Rapinoe Carney Klein Lloyd Garriock and then choose 2 from Markgraf, Dalmy, Dieke, Krzysik. Gamble that you don't have to protect Östberg.
Re: What players do we protect and who's not coming back? Well let's look at it from Marcia/Emma's point of view. From past interviews, blogs, comments, etc., we can safely deduct that Emma likes/loves Carney, Rapinoe, Jonsson. We know that Klein played the next most minutes behind Jonsson, so it's a safe bet she will be protected. She has always said good things about Christiane and she is our highest goal scorer. It's a safe bet she will be protected. Tarpley is the Captain, a USWNT mainstay and a very solid person/leader. I cannot see Marcia allowing her not to be protected. From what I've seen/heard/read, IMO, Emma thinks highly of Dalmy and rightfully so. She's a safe bet to be protected. Markgraf has said she will be back for next season. They need defensive leadership. I can see them protecting her. Unless something happens like Jonsson not wanting to come back to the US again, I'm pretty sure these players will be protected. Lloyd, I assume they will not give up on her after just one season, unless she just doesn't want to be in Chicago, but as someone said here, she has trade value if anything.