Evaluating a Club

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by jvgnj, Feb 17, 2016.

  1. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    I've read some of the old threads on evaluating clubs and coaches and was wondering if anyone has any updated tips on things to look for when watching practices or wouldn't mind sharing how they ended up choosing the club they're currently at. By way of background, the switch to birth year has my October born son essentially skipping a U7 year so he will be able to try out in the spring for U8 next fall. At least one local club is hosting ID programs in March to help sort out who will be playing on what team, though they won't conduct official tryouts until early May. There are a lot of clubs in our area (northern NJ) and at least 3 we'd consider letting him try out for, mainly because he's had some exposure to a few of their coaches and has enjoyed the experience. We realize that at his age this isn't exactly a make or break decision, but we do want to ensure we make an informed choice. Any help is appreciated.
     
  2. My two cents take them for that. The club doesn't matter at all. The coach actually does matter a lot. Doesn't mean if you had one bad year, your boy's career is over, but try to find a good coach. You want a coach who understands how important it is to start teaching the basic skills. At his age, it should be ball work, ball work, ball work. A good coach can make it incredibly fun and varied and keep the kids interested and wanting more. This coach will get them interested in juggling for fun, and they get hooked and start wanting to do it at home. If you see a coach just having them play scrimmage after scrimmage, I would be very hesitant to pay club dollars for this. But you should definitely see some small-sided drill work so the kids can practice use his skills under pressure.

    At his age, I would actually be more interested in a very good developmental program than a club team per se. More of an Academy style program with lots of skill work and very few games. Traveling all over to take a 6 year old to play teams from other cities/counties is not a good use of his time.

    If I had a chance to do it over again with my daughter I wouldn't have put her in club until 9 years old, and would have taken her to several days a week Academy training program in our area that is excellent. The Academy doesn't do games, just training. The kids absolutely love it. And then let her play some games at rec or rec-plus level and some futsal but keep the focus away from games, games, and more games. The kids I know who did that and are now 12-14 years old far outstrip their club-playing peers and a couple of them are playing on nationally ranked teams. They were patient and learned the basics while their friends were in clubs on competitive teams winning medals and t-shirts, but now they are amazing players who can take their game to the next level.
     
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  3. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Watch the teams practice that you like him to tryout for. You can learn a lot from that. Talk to the parents of kids who are already on the team. Talk to the coach after the practice.

    What division is his age group playing in the best or less then that. You play better when your playing against the best.

    Can you afford to let him play for that team.

    Then train to do well in the tryout.

    Wear something unusual some coaches forget which player did what. Wear something easy for the coach to remember when you do something good. The rest is ok for 8 yrs old if you have been playing since 5 or 6.
     
  4. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Get a lot of touches of the ball before the tryout starts. Your first hundred touches are not as good as the second hundred. So get those first touches out of the way before the tryout starts.

    Don't be afraid to attack if the space you left is not filled in by another player trying out. You have to show something to be noticed. If you don't go because your back support is not there. Very few coaches will understand why you did not go. He will think you never go into the attack.

    Don't make a pass and be content to admire your pass. Move in the flow of play after your pass and hope for a return pass or another pass in combination play.

    Lose the ball or a team mate loses the ball or your no longer in the flow of play, get your arse behind the ball.

    Ball is up and your tired show a will of iron and get up. I look for that kind of will in a player. Also have the will to get behind the ball when your team loses the ball.

    Think about your support positioning.

    Going out for inside mid? Try to put yourself as the second attacker for the dribbler who ever the dribbler is from your inside position. So you will get a lot of touches and make those touches show something that will be remembered in a good way.

    Think a head so you don't need to think after you get the ball. So when you get the ball you just do. Going for tackles? Go at the right time which is when the dribbler does not have close control of the ball. Don't dive in on the tackle. You will miss and look bad doing it.

    If you can beat players take them on. That creates space for team mates. Don't take on the second attacker unless it means you can get a shot off and score.

    After beating the first defender look to pass while moving away from pressure. Perfect time to look for throw pass, a shot or to reverse the field with a pass.
    ---------------------------------

    I look for player quickness, vision and a good touch.

    Players making a good impression in small sided play have a good chance of making the team in general.

    -----------

    Here is some stuff from a one time friend that can help.

    Communicate in the Games
    Players who give instructions and help other players with verbal and visual cues stand out as leaders. It does not have to be long winded or a continuous narrative, but good communication makes players stand out in a positive way to the observers. Silent players appear to be out of the game mentally.
    --------------------
    (Calling for a back pass as the other player just touches the ball is bad communication. Thats from me.)
    -------------------------
    Introduce Yourself and Ask Questions
    Whenever there is a moment, the player should greet each of the coaches. It is sad to hear kids say that they went to the tryout but did not know who had evaluated them. Players should ask questions to ensure that they understand what's going to happen at both the tryout and during any follow-on tryouts or administrative mumbo jumbo.

    Ask for the Job
    Good heavens, please tell the coaches you had a good time and want to play for the team. As a coach, I really have a much harder time cutting kids who show up, work hard, introduce themselves and who ask for the job than I do cutting kids who show up, play, and leave without indicating any interest.
    ______________________________

    You said you were trying out for a number of teams.

    That might be fun for you, but it could hurt you in the future.

    When someone comes out for my team or my club I think they are doing that because they want to play for us.

    If I like your game and offer you a spot on the team I expect you to play on the team because you wanted to go out for the team.

    If I offer you a spot then you say I have to think about it or no I am playing for another team. I think you were just trying to waste my time and effort.

    I will ask you why aren't you accepting the offer to play. Acceptable excuses are just found out I moving out of state or your dying. Those are the only 2 acceptable excuses. Anything thing else I write your name and address down for future reference if you should ever tryout for my club again. So I will remember to turn you away at another tryout.
    --------------------
    Things a coach remembers a good tackler, speed, and a guy who can finish a half chance or a chance, and someone who can cross the ball and make a good cross with either foot


    Good luck,

    Richie

    Ryan "The thing is, I'm looking to improve as a player, and because I don't know much about the clubs because many are new, I don't know what to do other than to try out for all of them. Any advice?"

    That is your problem you have no info on the club your trying out for. You need to see them play in games and in practice the season before.

    In these cases might as well try out for all of them if they are all playing in the highest division in your league and they have very good coach/trainer.

    Ideally they should have some money behind them. Because then you can be seen in good tournaments if your team is good instead of crap local tournaments that no one but local coaches watch because of lack of money.

    I would not play for a lower division team, you want to play in the best division for the best competion. Have to play in the highest division of your leagues play if you want a chance to play for your leagues select team if they have a league select team. Which is a team made up of your leagues best players. They should be playing together in better tournaments.

    I coached my leagues select for years I only looked at players who played on the best division of league competition. If a player was good but played in a weaker division chances are I would not even consider him and might not even know about him.

    Try to play on an established team with good coaching in the highest division and level of play.

    All these things will help you be spotted by coaches that could do you the most good later on. They know a club puts out good players. They see you in league select tournament, etc.

    Clubs that merge might be good for a year, but they never seem to last for more then a season or two.

    New clubs come and go.

    Richie
     
  5. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    Thank you both for your input. From my conversations with some of the parents of kids he plays with now, two big clubs employ something similar to the academy program described above and participate in festivals on the weekends in lieu of a formal league schedule for this age group. The one thing that makes me hesitant about going this route at his age is that they both practice 3x per week and involve a 30-40 minute drive, which will make it difficult if not impossible for him to participate in other sports (the kids we know who play there don't play any other sports, so it works for them). While soccer is currently his favorite sport, he loves to play other sports as well and should not have to choose one in first grade.

    To nicklaino's point on attending multiple tryouts, we're trying to do our due diligence this spring so we can figure out our best option and avoid trying out for more than one program. I would think it would make life difficult for coaches if they conduct a tryout and select a team only to have a few players turn down the spots to play elsewhere, though perhaps this is widespread and is just part of life for them.

    In any event, thanks for your suggestions above. They give us something to look for watching the coaches/teams in action.
     
  6. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I think you are correct to be concerned about specializing so early, whether by choice or circumstance….I think it is far more important, long term, that young kids play and participate in multiple sports…sounds like you are of that mindset as well. I would strongly encourage you to stick to your guns at that, even if it means going with a slightly less uber-perfect club/team/coach…

    Unless, you are going with a straight-up, no-cut academy program, I would, once again, strongly recommend you attend multiple tryouts. If these are actual tryouts, where cuts can and/or will be made, never assume anything and always have a backup plan. And I wouldn’t worry one bit about the coaches, especially at the bigger clubs; if they are conducting actual tryouts, they know the drill; they know not everyone they want will accept…make sure your kid has real options; not just a single preference. Nobody likes to think their kid will get cut, but it happens. My kid was on the wrong end of a cut once early on; we were completely naive and unprepared for it, and it almost ended my son’s soccer “career” before it really began. He’s U13 now and doing great, but it’s a lesson I’ve never forgot. Sounds like you are far more educated about your local soccer community, then we were back then, so I am sure you’ll be fine…just a word of caution….

    Good luck...
     
  7. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    To your point on whether these tryouts will result in a cut or if it's more a case of them accepting all who attend the tryout, that's one of the questions I'm trying to chase down for some of the programs in the area. I know that our local town travel team has cuts purely as a function of resources. There are only so many fields in the town and so many trainers employed by the company they use, so they have historically only fielded two teams in each age group. That may change due to the small sided games mandate, which they seem to be struggling with much more than the age change. They're holding an open forum in a few weeks to address both topics so I'm interested in what they have to say. The trainers they use are OK, but sometimes don't seem enthusiastic about coaching the younger ages. They run a lot of pre-school programs and are also involved in the town's rec league, so we've had plenty of experience with them the last couple years. My son plays with another group where the coaches focus on U10 and under and you can tell that these coaches spend time organizing practices with these age groups in mind and genuinely love working with kids this age. Ideally, I'd find something that's between the town travel and the two big clubs in terms of quality and time/distance. We're fortunate that there are a lot of options by us. It just requires some time and effort to sort out, so it's great to hear from others who have already gone through the process and can provide advice on what to look for.
     
    mwulf67 repped this.
  8. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    [QUOTE=
    To nicklaino's point on attending multiple tryouts, we're trying to do our due diligence this spring so we can figure out our best option and avoid trying out for more than one program. I would think it would make life difficult for coaches if they conduct a tryout and select a team only to have a few players turn down the spots to play elsewhere, though perhaps this is widespread and is just part of life for them."

    I was addressing older players during try out. Later when they go out for a team like this. They want to know as soon as possible if they made the team or not. I don't like when a club lets them wait to find out if they made it or not.

    But once they let them know. They can't let the team wait for their answer either.
     
  9. also in NJ here. i don't know how young they start the 25 players on a roster crap but stay away from it. i have seen one team say they want to keep the roster at 22, which i agree with because there are always a few hurt at the HS age, but they keep taking new kids and the ones at the bottom leave. it wouldn't be so bad if these players hadn't already paid for the year and now have NO CHANCE of getting playing time. no refunds of course. they all do it.

    i'd like these academies prove they are really in it for development and NOT profit.
     
  10. tuffnut11

    tuffnut11 Member

    Mar 16, 2014
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union

    NJ here as well... some of the teams west of us that are non-town club teams are doing this from u10 and under with no league play and no festivals starting next year.... all just in-house scrimmages.... Now I'm not saying games are end all be all... but I have noticed how kids (especially girls ) scrimmage against their own friends/teams mates in practice differently than in a game in younger ages. They aren't as aggressive and creative at least from what I have seen. I'm not sure the advantage, other than fund the upper teams
     
  11. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    In my experience with most clubs you may never know who the coach is until you've made that deposit.

    Additionally there are some coaches out there who frown upon parents asking them this - thinking that they have no or little rights.

    And finally - with specific regard to the posters player age, MANY clubs have their least experienced coaches running the lower ages - which should be very concerning if you and your player are committing to a level of soccer beyond rec or comm club.

    IMO - you should look for at this age:

    - Program that looks to develop - not looking to promote wins, State Champs and so on.
    - Club that has multiple tiers of play-ability (League/MRL/NPL/DA/ECNL)
    - Club were all the kids at your players age practice the same amount and have the same coaches and practice at the same times - no segregation based on skill - run if you see that at this age)
    - Program where your player will have 2-3-4 coaches during training sessions.

    You're looking for a program to build a passion for the sport - for your player. A club with the right philosophy, overall coaching staff and abundance of resources (leagues/facilities) will do that.
     
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  12. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with that to a point, but there's something to be said for a club that isn't just an organizational nightmare, no matter how good individual coaches are. And a solid club with a good, player development-oriented philosophy generally makes it a priority to get the best coaches possible.

    But overall, yeah, I'd say the individual coach is the most important thing. My son is currently at a great club with a great coach, but I know from watching trainings that a few of their coaches are not up to the same standard, and I'd think twice about staying with them if we got stuck with one of them.
     
  13. luftmensch

    luftmensch Member+

    .
    United States
    May 4, 2006
    Petaluma
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good point, and many clubs reshuffle the coaches periodically depending on who's available and how many teams they have (which can change following a successful tryout turnout).

    This was my experience as well, and it was not a good one.
     
  14. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    Thank you everyone for your insights and advice. All of it was very helpful to our homework. After looking at about a half dozen clubs, we were able to find what we think is the right club for him at this time. One piece of advice I'd like to share after going through this process is to figure out what criteria is most important to you and try to solve for that. For us, we valued coaching and the flexibility to play other sports the next couple years and proceeded accordingly. Others may factor in things such as cost and distance. In either event, I think that spending some time identifying these things made it easier for us to make an informed decision.
     
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  15. Momsoccertaxi

    Momsoccertaxi New Member

    Seattle Sounders
    Spain
    Apr 21, 2017
    Hi there - having trouble posting a new thread - apologies for posting on this one - when trying to decide between clubs for U13 would you choose say a "c" team on a better club (one of the best in the area, better training, development, Academy, ECNL, etc) or an "a" team on a lesser club with okay training but no development beyond USYS? Thanks for any thoughts on this!
     
  16. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Choose the club with the better coaching staff and greater opportunities where your player can grow - likely the C team.
     
  17. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    What are your goals?

    Playing for fun? Prepping for High School? Chasing college Scholarship?

    Be honest about what you’re looking for and the potential to achieve it…

    Big clubs may highlight all those training and development opportunities, but they may not necessarily trickle down to the “c” level teams/players….what are your kid’s prospects for move up to the A team?

    Without more details hard to say either way, but there is probably no wrong choice either way…choose the one that “feels” like the best fit… and don’t be afraid to take things like convenience and cost into the decision as well….
     
  18. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    Though I'm only in the first year of my son playing club, it was around this time last year that I was doing a lot of research on the different options around me. The best piece of advice I can offer is to first determine what you and your daughter ultimately want out of this and evaluate your options accordingly.
     
    mwulf67 repped this.
  19. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    While I don't disagree with any of this, it does irritate me that we have to consider paying for a club to play for fun. That's what rec soccer and in this case - jr high soccer should achieve IMO.

    Once you get into club - I would expect that first and foremost the priority is to learn how to play the game and learning fundementals from all parts of the field.
     
  20. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    jr high soccer? Isn’t a rarity in most parts? Is in mine anyway….

    Getting a little late for that at U13…


    What’s the difference between a playing on a club’s C team and playing rec soccer? About $800…

    Sorry, OP not meaning to make light of your dilemma….soccer parent humor…

    Once again, I firmly believe you can't make a wrong choice; pick which ever feels best for you and your kid, and don't look back...
     
  21. jvgnj

    jvgnj Member

    Apr 22, 2015
    I understand what you're saying but I don't think "playing for fun" in this case means just goofing around and kicking a ball. For some (maybe a lot of) kids, their idea of fun is something that is more competitive than rec but not as intense or committed as the larger clubs striving to move players on to college. Our "town travel" team costs about $600/year for a two 10 game seasons, uniforms and trainers at practices while games are handled by a parent coach who must at least have an F license. That seems like a reasonable option for a player who wants to learn the game and play in a competitive environment but has no big aspirations in the sport.
     
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  22. Momsoccertaxi

    Momsoccertaxi New Member

    Seattle Sounders
    Spain
    Apr 21, 2017
    Thank you for your replies! What are the goals? Well, we have always looked towards high school - is a very competitive area with very good players and the high school team is very competitive. However, over the past year our son has began to talk about playing in college and he's said that that is his goal. To be honest with you, we never really looked for him to play past high school and were focusing more on academic scholarships - and we have dropped the ball a bit as far as training. The club he's played for until now is the most convenient, location and price wise. The coaching is not great - which is obvious even to newbies like us. Over the past year we've had him with a trainer on and off, which he loves, and his game has been improving by leaps and bounds, as well as confidence on the field. This is the first year where he has openly said that he would like to change clubs. So we are finding that he is at a disadvantage when playing against the best in the area - he holds his own and can play great - but is inconsistent from one day to the next - so tryouts are hit or miss.

    Sorry so long - long story short, we would like to get him every opportunity to be the best player he can be -- and give him a shot at college if that's what he wants.
     
  23. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    That all being the case, I’d probably lean toward the big club…give it a shot and see what happens...
     
  24. Momsoccertaxi

    Momsoccertaxi New Member

    Seattle Sounders
    Spain
    Apr 21, 2017
    By the way - he's 12 going into middle school next year. We had alway assumed that he would play in school and club throughout. Just didn't realize we had to be thinking so far ahead at what seemed to us such an early age - obviously we were wrong!
     
  25. mwulf67

    mwulf67 Member+

    Sep 24, 2014
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Yeah, we were just talking about that in another thread…it’s crazy isn’t it?

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/a-dumb-and-loaded-question.2038266/page-7#post-35376151
     

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