Euro 2016 Qualification Thread.

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
  2. CDPontaDelgada

    CDPontaDelgada Member+

    CD Santa Clara
    Aug 15, 2012
    Ponta Delgada PT
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    That article is bullshit they said the same about Spain Portugal and Germany
     
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  3. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    Why stop short at semi or final? I want NT first WC.;)
     
  4. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    This has to be one of the more typical Dutch sentences in this thread. "We will make the final again some day!" :laugh:;)
     
  5. Keko

    Keko Member

    Jul 17, 2014
    Chicago
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    What a pessimistic article. With such a mentality we will indeed never be top again. If you are creative and innovative you can come up with something that boost things up again.

    It would be really interesting researching how Belgium with an even smaller population and similar economy levels is nowadays producing almost 2 top talents for each position, in a trend that seems to keep on judging by the excellent talents they keep producing.
     
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  6. Keko

    Keko Member

    Jul 17, 2014
    Chicago
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  7. thatkid

    thatkid Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Netherlands
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #2932 thatkid, Oct 15, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015
    I have thought about this for a while and I have to conclude: this is bullshit. As if we are only country where kids have facebook, instagram, playstation and xbox. The Belgian and the French kids are arguably worse when it comes to this modern mentality with youth and if anything, their youth players are getting better and better with each generation.

    people in this county are coming to all the wrong conclusions..
     
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  8. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    But its true. Ever since 74/78 we've made the finals or semifinals on 10 year intervals.

    I have no doubt we'll make them again in 2022 or 2026
     
  9. KGOranje

    KGOranje Member

    Nov 13, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    But... but... but... we've turned into Andorra!!!1 And there is no talent what so ever!!!
     
  10. Keko

    Keko Member

    Jul 17, 2014
    Chicago
    Club:
    Feyenoord

    I'm not sure about this. I have heard from different sources that specially white Dutch kids are very prone to stay all day in home connected to the web while the "allochtoon" who all together make up less than 10% of the general population are the ones that still play in the streets (this can also lead to other types of analysis that escape and surpass the purpose of this topic). No wonder why, on average a Dutch Maroccan kid has a superior technique than a white kid, and that also can explain maybe in part why every Danish kid who land at De Toekomst make almost immediately impact. Think about it, Erikssen, Fischer, Andersen; they are the ones that bring something different in terms of creativity and technique. Although Andersen hasn't made an impact yet at Ajax, you can see that he is intrinsically better that his competence. Now in the youth teams there is another Danish talent that is making (again) impact. His name is Doelberg and many experts say he is going to be the next big Ajax central striker. I myself have seen many footage of him and couldn't argue the aforementioned statement.

    So I think Wim Jonk might have a point. Who are our best players in Attacking positions? (attacking midfielders and wingers): Depay, El Ghazi, Lens, Narsingh, Promes, Boetius, Kishna, Becker, Klaassen, Afellay, Ziyech, Propper, Tannane, Maher, Vilhena.

    I named the ones that come on top of my head right now. I probably missed some names but it's not like I missed a Van Basten. How many players out of this crop are white?. I'm not talking about the non footballing central strikers (yes, most of them are white). As some of you might know I follow closely the youth teams and I can say almost the same apply here, the best talents in attacking positions are usually the "allochtoon" with a few exceptions.

    In conclusion how come that the descendants of about 80% of the total population (Dutch native) are so underrepresented in positions in which technique and creativity are critical parts? Why do ajax has to rely on Danish kids to make things happen up the field? Why Dutch teams has to relay on the 6% of their populations (Surinamese plus Caribbean plus Moroccan) to create game and score goals, from U15 to U21?.

    Of course this can't explain everything, but I do think Jonk might have a point here.
     
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  11. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
  12. thatkid

    thatkid Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Netherlands
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Well.. there is Sinkgraven..
    But I agree that there is a issue with white kids (middle class, high class) not playing football (or any sports for that matter) on the street and in playgrounds compared even to 10 - 20 years ago.. We fish in a small pool and this makes our pool even smaller and this is also linked to the resent increase in obesity among Dutch kids. Yes it's a problem, I also talked about this before in a different thread. Cruijff actually went to the national education board and asked to increase the time spend on sports in elementary and high schools because of this.. But this is not unique to us, that's is a 1st world issue. All european, American and east Asian kids have this problem. In Korea and China this is such a big issue that they have programs to send their kids to military camps.

    But in football it doesn't explain why our kids develop into mediocrity compared to Belgian, German or French kids.. We are all equally wealthy, the percentage of "allochtoon" population in also about the same..
     
  13. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    If talking about skin color and communauties, I'd like to make a point. First of all, is there any other country that produces weak white defenders like the Netherlands do ? I mean all those soft and insecure guys like Veltman, De Vrij, Mathijsen...I can't find any. Italian defenders have that natural authority even when they're short like Cannavaro.
    German white CB are globally tall and strong, english ones as well. Even France white lads are stronger than dutch ones. Holland doesn't produce defenders like Stam anymore.
    And I also agree that they don't really produce white technical midfielders like before, and even less wingers.
    We can sum up white dutch players to soft defenders, some decent central midfielders and slow strikers.

    Talking about moroccans, Holland also produces soft players. How could France create a Benatia while there is almost no dutch moroccan defender in the league now ? There used to be Boulahrouz but he wasn't that good. Few strikers also. Dutch moroccans are mainly soft and weak physical midfielders and wingers with a good technical.

    Even dutch black aren't that strong or athletical. One of the famous french speakers here had problems because he said "it's the first time I see a white running faster than a black" when Lavezzi beat Martins Indi on a sprint.

    So there is probably a whole problem to create strong and technical players in the Netherlands.
     
  14. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I am afraid you 2 are not getting what I was aiming at. How about winning a WC, instead of reaching another (semi) final. F silver. It is gold or nothing. For that we need to use this crisis and come out stronger than ever.
     
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  15. KGOranje

    KGOranje Member

    Nov 13, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I was JUST mocking Gary Liniker's post. I actually haven't read your last few comments so I don't know what you were talking about :)
     
  16. CDPontaDelgada

    CDPontaDelgada Member+

    CD Santa Clara
    Aug 15, 2012
    Ponta Delgada PT
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Gary Linekers opinions and Twitter account relinquish all accomplishments he has ever achieved if he knew how to shut his mouth he be more highly rated
     
  17. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Gary Liniker is probably trying to get attention ever since his BBC show has been found out in any analyses they give in MOTD. Other television stations with other analyzers (like the one with Neville) have exposed him and his show for what it is. Mediocrity.
     
  18. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Frenkie de Jong, Sinkgraven, Mink Peeters, Teun Bijleveld. All players with some silk in their locker. Not sure one of them will reach the top though. This last generation with RvP, Sneijder, vdVaart and Robben. Beofre that the silk was more carried by Dutch Suriname players, though Bergkamp was also in the mix.

    Concerning strong defenders. I remember de Vrij doing extra fitness and then losing captaincy over it. Now Koeman is complain about physique of Dutch players (not sure I have the quote right). It is probably more complicated, but somehow it is funny to me.

    Van Dijk is a tall and strong. Van Beek is pretty tall and getting stronger. We have longed quite some time for a classic tackler and we have one with Tete. That is something. With United with have Fosu Mensah coming up. Also pretty strong.
     
  19. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    We'll win it some day, I have no doubt. I just hope it happens in my lifetime
     
  20. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Let the conspiracy theories start :ROFLMAO:

    [​IMG]
     
  21. A tackle is the last resort of a defender, so if a defender has to use it often, he's not a good defender as he is found out by the strikers every time. A good defender makes an attacker impossible to get the ball by being smarter than him.
    When we are going to confuse better players=physical players instead of smart players = better player, then we really are going down the drain. The younger players get challenged to find solutions (= not being told from the sideline) the better. Brains develop the best when you are young, muscles we can develop even when you are 25.
    So first the brains and then the muscles.
    I hate it when people like Gullit are farting about physics, as that is an issue we can solve in a few months.
    The problem we are dealing now is far more complicated.
     
  22. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It can be a last resort but it doesn't have to be. A tackle is a method to get to a ball that you otherwise couldn't. I don't understand your crusade against Tete. He is quite clearly our most ferocious defender since Nigel de Jong.

    Must be just Ajax fueled hatred.
     
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  23. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    There is not much I disagree with in this post. Kind of my own line of thinking. That being said, if we look at many backs from the days of Pieters under van Marwijk to Willems, to Blind, to Riedewald, to Janmaat, to van der Wiel and on and on and on, they all let the winger make his cross often. Or they do shadow defending. Running with the attacker, hands on the back and still just let that ball be whipped in. Now I am not saying Tete is having a 100% record of blocking attackers whipping it in, but he at least has a weapon he also uses if he can to prevent that cross coming into the box. That to me is nice. It should be standard for a defender, but it is not in Dutch football. We now have a guy that kind of can grow into something that actually prevents balls from his side coming in.

    One thing though, committing with a standing block can make a defender look like a fool and have him beaten. Now a sliding can go wrong as well, but to me there is a bigger chance of grabbing something of the ball and otherwise the man. It also is kind of demotivating for the other player as he knows he can end up getting a hard challenge ending up on the ground in a hard way. It also sends a signal to the rest of the team. Seeing your fellow team mate throw out tackles, kind of gets you stoked or at least motivated to give a bit more. Finally it looks cool. I like watching defenders making tackles like Tete. There is a certain beauty in it. There is also a certain masculinity about it. I am not sterile consumer of football. I like a good fight. Tackles add salt and pepper to a game for me.
     
  24. No, I took the same stance against Kongolo, when another poster was mentioning his fantastic tackles, while I saw a bad match of him.
     
  25. The main culpritt (funny how often I used that word the last ten days) is the drive towards ever more effectiveness/efficiency by the gouvernment in education. Children arenot allowed any slack at all. The shitheads even start to contemplate little kids that not yet even have mastered the Dutch language to force them to learn English too. Even toddlers are victim of these burocratic lunatics. But they also force this efficiency tantrum on adults. We already were a highly organized lot, but now even our kids live by the terror of the schedule. This is the way of life of the mainly white and the higher educated population. No time to play in the street, cause that's not productive. Kids in our society are being robbed of the most beautiful thing of being a kid...wasting time, playing.
    The fact that non Western background kids are over represented is all due to the fact that this part of the population hasnot yet been part of the mainstream.

    And there should be a high tax on coca cola and other high sugar drinks.
     
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