Euro 2016 Qualification Thread.

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
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    I personally have great respect for the Czech. Hope to see them gaining strength again. Turkey is great to beat as we have a big immigrant population of them in the country, creating some rivalry. Iceland is fun as well with some players making their money in Eredivisie. They have grown as a football nation.

     
  2. Abhirup

    Abhirup Member

    Nov 26, 2013
    Kolkata
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Hi DRB300 and others

    This is my first post on this forum and I'm extremely delighted to notice that discussions regarding the future has already kicked off. :) Great work DRB300 (I'm sure you can recognize me)
    I'm from India and I have been supporting the Dutch NT since 1998 (I was a 10 year old kid back then).
    Last night, I was actually miffed about the fact that our biggest football rivals managed to win their 4th WC title while we had to settle for the bronze medal. Yet another "so near yet so far" experience for us , the fans of the Dutch NT.

    Robben certainly has another tournament left in him before he bids adieu to the Oranje jersey..
    But the main question is..should we include him in the starting 11 in the near future??
    Don’t get me wrong..for me, Arjen is the 2nd best footballer in the world right now but frankly speaking, aren’t we too dependent on him to make things happen on the pitch?
    I think its time to rest the veterans and give the youngsters a chance to flourish…(except maybe RVP coz we don’t have anybody to replace him right now..Hunter is too static for my liking). By playing RVP, Sneijder and Robben , aren’t we forcing ourselves to be dependent on them? Look at France..without Ribery, they played such attractive football. My suggestion to Hiddink would be, rest the superstars..let the young guns handle some responsibility.. This way, they’ll learn to grind out results in the next major tournaments.
    Thoughts??
    I’m already looking forward to the friendly against Italy.. HUP HOLLAND! :)

    P.S: DRB300, why don't you post on Jan's blog anymore?? We miss your posts a lot!Cheers!:)
     
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  3. thatkid

    thatkid Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Netherlands
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I just really hope that at least one or two of our 16/17 year old talents turn out be real "buitencategorie" and make it to the Euro. :)
     
    Abhirup repped this.
  4. Abhirup

    Abhirup Member

    Nov 26, 2013
    Kolkata
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    I was also wondering if we could deploy Clasie as an AMF in a 4-2-3-1 formation..
    He doesn't have the lungs to play the single DM role for 90 minutes but he has something which the others(Wijnaldum, De Guzman) so desperately lack..world class vision and incisive passing..I think it'll be best for Hiddink to use both Strootman and Van Ginkel as blockers and deploy Clasie in front of them. That way, his energy remains conserved throughout the course of a game and we get to extract the best of his qualities...I still haven't given up on Maher yet.., Vilhena and Ziyech are also interesting options..
    BTW, when will Strootman be back??
     
  5. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

    Saw in the other thread you want to play with the point to the front and have a nice attacking midfielder making plays. So who do you have in mind?


    PS in the first months of previous season Willems was one of the best players in Eredivisie. His injuries and the way he came/comes back from those did him no service. We will revisit your prediction of Willems being done soon for PSV at the end of this season :).
     
  6. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Welcome Abhirup :thumbsup:,


    I think Ribery causes problems in the dressing room. He basically is a bully who has actively tried to get some players out of the NT or at least 1. Nasri is a quality player, but was left at home as he creates a bad vibe in the team. Same thing, though lower quality compared to Rib. Elite players can do a lot before they are ditched.

    Robben is the opposite for me. He brings great atmosphere. He brings a winning mentality. Believe. Hard work. He is an example. Look at how Depay looks at him. Look at Robben giving speeches in extra time and how he talks about being proud of the team. Robben is so good for this team. Van Gaal said that this has been the best group he ever worked with. He did not talked about the player quality, but the team element and how players worked with each other and for each other. Think about that. This man is decades in the business and was blown away by this group. That is for me a sign of how good Robben is for this team as Robben is for me the real leader. His mentality rubbed off to others and resulted in this chemistry.

    When Robben is not good enough anymore, there could come a sharp turn. A not playing Robben will be a pain in the a**. Robben just wants to play or he becomes very grumpy. That time is not now. Now he is scintillating and he was probably the best player of the WC.

    This team is so young at the back that experience is a + in my book. We miss experience as 1985-1989 has gone bust. This gap must be bridged by stretching the Robben generation. Our luck they are so good. This issue is not pressing for me to be honest. I am actually curious if we continue with the defenders we used at the WC or start building on Kongolo, Rekik and other big talents at the back. We possibly have given a less talented generation of defenders the invaluable experience of this WC, while the possible better talents were just too young. By an inch. That's a shame.
     
    Abhirup repped this.
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Czech losing 1/2 of their country when Slovakia split off did not help them at all. I can't think of any top players like in the old days when Nedved, Rosicky, Koller, and the rest were playing. Iceland almost qualified for the WC!! Turkey have some good players but other than the one WC run have not performed very well in tournaments.
     
  8. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    de Vrij had a good tournament and maybe he can build on this. Vlaar was outstanding but he's now 29 and there will be better defenders coming into the squad. Don't know about Martins Indi for the long term; physically talented but mistake prone. Rekik says he wants to make it at ManCity and is back there right now. What happens if he just sits on the bench? Kongolo needs lots of 1st team club football. Veltman is skilled but physically maybe not strong enough.
     
  9. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Blind and Robben both on the Goal.com all tournament team
     
  10. Abhirup

    Abhirup Member

    Nov 26, 2013
    Kolkata
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Absolutely! Well said..The thing that's bothering me is the realization that we don't yet have a suitable replacement for him . Kishna is close but he dribbles way too much (still very young I must say and even Robben used to do that when he was 20-21) for my liking..I have high hopes on him and Depay.
    Depay's first touch is not always immaculate or silky but he has an outstanding attitude and a winner's mentality..
    I like that a lot..Hope he develops into a massive massive player for the Dutch NT in the near future..:thumbsup:
     
  11. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I send you a PM, hope you received it.

    As for Depay, his passing to fellow players in quite mediocre. That is an area that must improve.

    My enthusiasm for the new campaign is knowing that we get to work with some really serious professionals in the team. Stroot, Ginkel, Janmaat, Kuyt (can still be used as back), Blind, Robben, RvP, Huntelaar, Vlaar. All of those players are ideal son in laws. Super serious. In the past we were known for infighting, but this WC it was almost a blue sky and look at what that leads to, even when the player quality material is not optimal. With Ginkel and Stroot that only gets better. We might not produce the most technical gifted players currently, but the flip side is that we do get more "collective thinking" players prepared to work for each other and do a lot of off ball work.

    We need to find the right balance in the upcoming campaign. Maybe Promes, Boëtius, Depay, Kishna can provide flair. That is important as well.
     
  12. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ^Kuyt already announced his retirement from the NT
     
  13. Radu Razvan

    Radu Razvan Member+

    Mar 1, 2013
    Bucharest, Romania
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Romania
    :( Sad. What a great player and a big character.
     
  14. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Where did you read that? I don't think he has actually.
     
  15. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #15 Orange14, Jul 14, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
  16. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

    Don't see quotes directly of Kuyt saying farewell. This wing back position is cut out for him. I am not ready to let him go. :)
     
  17. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  18. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  19. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    I'd be okay going with a 4-man defensive setup. Agreed that De Vrij and Vlaar should continue building on their success. Vlaar will be 31 in 2016, still a pretty OK age for a central defender. He should be one of the leaders in the defense (in the team, as well). I hope De Vrij makes a good choice selecting his new club, if he indeed leaves Feyenoord. With a very strong competition in the backline (Veltman, BMI, Rekik, Kongolo, Van Dijk), I'd expect a vast improvement in CD in 2 years time. Janmaat and Blind will/should be improving.

    I enjoyed Hiddink's tactic in 1998 with 2 attackers (Bergkamp and Kluivert), one stationed slightly deeper than the other. Given the limited resources upfront at the moment, I wonder if this would work. With injuries, loss of forms, etc. I think the selection of Van Persie, Robben, Lens and Depay should be enough to cover the shift during the qualification. Other youngsters can be introduced slowly without adding too much pressure on their development. I'd be particularly looking forward to Promes, who seems to be a very versatile attacker. I like Kishna, too, but I think 2016 may come too early for him, unless he makes a gigantic leap.

    With 4 backs and 2 fronts, the midfield will have 4 slots... a lot of permutations on this. Strootman is a lock for me - the most balanced of all. I believe Wijnaldum brings a lot of flair and dynamic. He's a willing runner and pretty influential (can be argued that last season PSV crumbled when he went injured for months). His work rate will help him making yet more improvement next season, hopefully in the goal scoring aspect, I fancy him to become one of the building blocks. I reserve my judgment for Van Ginkel and Clasie for now, two players that I really, really like but at the moment they need to get stronger and fitter. Van Ginkel in particular needs to make a smart choice (whether to compete at Chelsea, go on a loan, etc). Vilhena is an interesting option... technically very talented, but I have question if he is hungry enough. Same with Maher. My wildcard would probably be Ziyech. Perhaps a bit underrated at the moment because he's not playing for Ajax/PSV/Feyenoor/Twente, regardless is an intelligent player with sweet touch.
     
  20. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Are we writing off Leroy Fer? I see he may be headed back to the EPL with Queen's Park Rangers
     
  21. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    #21 Mr.S, Jul 14, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
    It is difficult to predict. Could you predict Vlaar & De Vrij? Where was BMI? Look at development of Depay.

    Hence I can surely say there will be huge changes in rates of development. Some people would flop. A person like Nouri or a Bergwin could break through.

    Having said that let me give my view -

    RB - Janmaat is the fav but VDW and RVR should not be ruled out. 2 years is a long time but we will have a Solid RB though not WC who will be attacking

    CB - My biggets hopes. Vlaar @ 29 was outstanding and should not be ruled out. De Vrij has a tournament beyond my expectations. Those 2 are leading and deserving candidates. Kongolo is the most talented IMO and Veltman has a Vertonghen aura. BMI will grow with Porto. He is random but has talent. Maybe Porto will turn him into a LB where he could grown further and mature and then be a top CB. If Rekik goes to City his career is over. Your boy Jeffrey is also developing okay and then you have Bruma, Denswil. There are a lot of talents

    LB - No huge talents. Not a great fan of Blind, but don't rate Willems. Willems is the worst defender I have seen in my life, no positional sense, gets beaten tries to make up with speed and stupid fouls and worst elbows.

    Worst bit is no crossing ability. With inverted Wingers the LB should give width and a fabulous cross which Blind has.

    Midfield - Ziyech is criminally under-rated and I predict he can do big things. Wijnaldum with time can grow into a great CM as he has the technicals skills for a CM and workrate. Strootman will obviosuly be the leader. Van Ginkel is another huge talent but has to leave Chelsea to survive. Then you have Fer who has the heart but not the brains IMO.

    What is interesting is the Clasie-Van Ginkel-Stroot combo. Clasie is not an out-right DM and cant protect a defense like De Jong. What will work is him in a Pirlo with Stroot and Van Ginkel in the Marchisio Vidal role. 2 Box to Box CM's with high work-rate who can defend well taking a lot of pressure off Clasie and who also can cause damage to the opponent's goal and can create.

    Don't rule out De Jong and maybe Sneijder. Expect a Wildcard like Nouri.

    Wingers - Robben. Depay is a huge talent but Promes is massively under-rated. He is about to reach Depay level. If he was from Ajax he would already be held as a star. Both these guys can be big stars. Add Boetius, Kishna, etc.

    ST - There are no alternatives to RVP and KJH although I like Locadia a goal-scorer. But I think DRB could find his Van Basten if Robben looses his speed somewhat or is developed into a more central roles. Provided Depay and Promes tear apart the wings, we could see Robben as a ST who frankly is marginalized in a RW role.

    Imagine - Promes - Robben - Depay.

    Also hate the 5-3-2 and we should go to a 4-3-3, also hate slow widthless formations
     
  22. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ....or the tragic story of Royston Drenthe who cannot even make the squad of a 2nd division English club
     
  23. Mr.S

    Mr.S Member

    Oct 22, 2011
    Drenthe has so much talent. 2 years is a long time. I think what is important is to have a vision and a large pool of 20-25 Good Players playing High Level CHL Football which would mean development for all. Hope these guys leave after being 22-23 and don't be stupid. If that happens you have more chances.

    I had high hopes of Fischer. Who expected Blind to improve? And never expected Veltman to grow this much forget Vlaar or De Vrij
     
  24. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    So does Denmark!:p
     
  25. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Fer has a decent technique and great engine to become a dominant or combative midfielder, in the mold of Yaya Toure or Rakitic, but my take is that he is currently held back by his ability to make smart decision. He doesn't have quite the vision to circulate the ball, and thus he is easily dispossessed. Which is kinda counter-intuitive if we want to play with possession and quick passing approach. Time will tell if he can improve this aspect of the game, he's still young and has only got a year in England. In spite of his limitation, I do think Fer will be a useful in squad rotation (as back-up) in feasible future.

    Jon De Guzman... I am a bit torn, also one of those players with decent technique (an excellent passer), but doesn't seem to have the edge to elevate the game to the next level. Another rotation player?
     

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