Euro 2016 Qualification Games: Netherlands vs Iceland & Turkey

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Aug 30, 2015.

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How many points will we end up with after these 2 games?

  1. 6 points and both opponents never had a chance.

    29.2%
  2. 4 points. We will slip either at home or away.

    29.2%
  3. 3 points. Can see us beat one opponent, but also lose to the other.

    16.7%
  4. 2 points. Why winning when you can draw?

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. 1 point. Winter is coming.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. 0 points. With this coach, with these players and the state we are in, we must expect the worst.

    25.0%
  1. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    I'm actually glad we dont make this Euro.

    I mean really, does anyone think we'll make it out of the group stage??? DUH!! :rolleyes:
     
  2. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Robben
     
  3. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    SF North Bay
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    How soon people forget. Holland crashed out of Euro 2012 at the bottom of the group. Everyone thought they were finished for a while. All they did was go to Brazil and get within a couple of fingertips of the World Cup Final.

    Holland comes to Euro 2016 with everyone healthy (Robben, Strootman, Vlaar, etc.) and no one will want to be in their group.
     
  4. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
  5. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I prefer to get trashed than to not participate at all.
     
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  6. yoALB

    yoALB New Member

    Sep 10, 2015
    New Jersey
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    there's really no excuse for this stuff. watching the beginning of the Iceland match, i felt so comfortable. i remember thinking, "we have some of the top players in the world, there's no way we don't win this game" ... and then it all went to sh*t. Robben got injured, BMI was BMI and VdW was his usual stupid self.

    I believe that RvP still has a lot left, as does Huntelaar. I don't think our problem is with the strikers. The problem is obviously in defense as well as midfield. I am also on the van Dijk bandwagon, and I think he should be in there every game with de Vrij (when healthy). I would very much like to see van der Wiel sent home. Janmaat is much better in that position.

    Above all though, the problem with this squad is that the players just don't seem comfortable with each other. We constantly keep changing the defense and midfield. They look like they've never played with each other out there!

    Still though, we have way too much talent to fall apart like this. Almost all of our players play on good teams in the top leagues. We shouldn't be losing to Turkey and Iceland.
     
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Seriously? Two matches against Iceland, ZERO goals scored; two matches against Turkey, 1 goal scored; one match against Czech Rep, 1 goal scored. This is a club that used to score multiple goals per game against any opponent. If you don't score, you have ZERO chance of winning a match. That's an incontrovertible truth.
     
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  8. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    I prefer to make it too if we can get 3rd place miraculously. It will be valuable experiences for this fragile team. 3 games are better than none and it will teach them to be hungry for title.
     
  9. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    #559 bunbohue, Sep 10, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
    I added and substracted some. We move on without Sneijder, RVP, Huntelaar, Vlaar, Nigel De Jong, Afellay (29) and Elia (28). Robben on the other hand deserves a spot when he is healthy. Exclude Krul and Robben it is quite a young team (26 and under). Time to rebuild IF we failed to qualify for Euro 16. This is my pool to make selections from:

    GK: Krul, Cillessen, Zoet, Vermeer
    D: Janmaat, Tete, De Vrij, Van Dijk, Kongolo, Veltman, Van Beek, Pieters, Van Aanholt, Willems, Riedewald, Rekik
    M: Strootman, Blind, Clasie, Propper, Ziyech, Wijnaldum, Anita, Klaassen, Van Ginkel, Bazoer, Maher, Vilhena
    F: Robben, Depay, Lens, Promes, Dost, L. and Siem De Jong, Ola John, Boetius , El Ghazi
     
  10. Parel

    Parel Member

    Jun 16, 2010
    Club:
    NAC Breda
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Some bookies have odds on "To qualify for final tournament yes/no" for various teams. Which thus also covers the possibility of playoffs etc. Anyway, from what I've seen, the implied probabilities for Holland now seem to be something like 31% yes and 69% no.
     
  11. Italy-Azzurri-Fan

    Nov 15, 2014
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Even if you reach the playoffs, it seems people are so confident you will win your playoff. Really? If you can;t beat Turkey I would be so sure.
     
  12. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    I don't see a sense to select Robben. He can probably be top again for one or two years, but three ? The world cup is in three years, and it would be silly to start the qualifiers with him and not to call him after like we did with Ruud in 2011 for example. We've been depending on Robben for too long and it's time to move on. Is it a serious plan to go to WC2018 waiting for a 34 years old player to make the difference ?

    I wouldn't select any player born before 1990 except Janmaat.

    BMI, Bruma, Veltman, Wijnaldum, Klaassen and Narsingh shouldn't be called until they do something really big with their clubs. All those players have been disappointing/not good enough with NT.

    I don't worry much for the defenders cause we have many options and I'm sure we can find satisfying ones. At least as good as the ones we had in 2005-2010 and could reach a WC finale with.

    Also many options for the DM/CM spot.

    I worry for the CAM spot, Maher is a marshmallow, Ziyech I don't trust that much, Propper is a nice player but too slow for me, after having watched 10 years of Sneijder, I want a quick CAM, a player that can hold the ball and make runs with. Propper played 45 minutes against USA and he didn't see the ball, had troubles to position himself...
    The other options ? CAM is the first spot I really worry about.

    The second one is the ST. Luuk/Dost can be sub, not starters. We had Van Basten, then Bergkamp, then Kluivert, then Ruud, then RVP... moving to Luuk/Dost is such a big loss of quality.
    As long as we don't find a great ST there will be little chances to accomplish something.
    And no, we cannot use Depay or Promes there, they have very few impact at that position. We need a real ST.
     
  13. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    So you're telling me there's a chance we can make to the playoff? I'll take it.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Who said we're confident?? I sure didnt
     
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  15. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    Veltman is only 23, Klasssen 22, Wijnaldum and Narsingh 24. I hope they can grow and improve. Yes, I agree about CAM and ST, not looking good there. For this reason we may have change the way we play (5-3-2, 3-4-3 with Dost, or even 4-4-2), either false striker or no striker, whatever best fit with the abilities of the players we have. Robben has not played full season for a while due to injuries so I estimate that his every 2 years = other players' 1 year so he will stay fit and last another 3 years ;)
     
  16. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    Yes, that's why I don't exclude them. Just a temporary ban.
    Vlaar was absolutly awful when he started with NT in 2006, and 8 years later he was one of the most solid WC defender. So who knows, maybe BMI, Veltman or Bruma will follow the same path later.

    I know how hard and unbelievable it seems to imagine NT without Robben, but it's really time to move on. I just can't believe he'll keep his level. I have the feeling he is playing his last season with Bayern, maybe there will be a last one next year, but not more. Then he'll move to Turkey, MLS or Qatar...All the injuries he had, just not possible to imagine him running like a horse being 33/34.

    We should start to build the offensive animation around Depay, he is the protagonist now. He should make things to happen, and he can. Not a dribbler like Robben, but against Turkey he gave two great crosses that should be goals, it's a sign that we can rely on him even in big games. I just thought he could cut more inside with the ball, and try some shoots since it's one of his weapons.

    Then Promes, Kishna, El Ghazi...Probably the three most interesting wingers we have behind. Boetius and Ola John transferts have been very disappointing for me. We lost two options.
     
  17. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    That is the story in short. If there is one position telling what has happened and happening, it is this. We can make page long analyses with multi layer explanations, but things kind of start with quality for me. De Jong literally kicked the ball out of the goal at the end, instead of tapping it in. It was almost like his instinct was to put it back on an attacker, instead of scoring. What would Ruud van Nistelrooy have done? He would have destroyed the goal and kicked through the net, to then run to the center for kick off to score another. It is also not like we don't know this from Luuk. He looked to the wrong side with that corner vs England in that friendly we won 2-3. Was even a weirder demonstration of instinct. He has also failed in Germany and England. All those other strikers have not only succeeded abroad, but even won personal awards being the best of the league.
     
  18. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Well, he might be great in qualifying us against France/Sweden? This campaign demonstrates again that is something to take serious and a thing on it's own. We first need to get there. vdVaart was not bad in the 2014 campaign. Did not go and we had a good tournament (great one looking at what this material does with different leadership), but did help us to get there with some good games.

    Robben is also frustrating nothing. I mean we have now seen Promes play for the NT a few times and he brings nothing. Depay at least has some good crosses, Promes not so much. I prefer to play with 10 men, than to play with Narsingh. Kishna is not the future either. He is the anti Kuyt personified. Does not work hard enough. El Ghazi I am not sold on, but we can try. I just don't see the surplus of technique and quality with him, but he is goal orientated and we need goals. To say Robben would frustrate a player like that is too much though.

    Under Advocaat I was beyond rage that we did not move on. Both the old players gave reason to move on and the new players gave reason to trust them. The old ones were blaze and arrogant and not motivated and the new ones had hunger and quality. That is not the case now. Robben is not arrogant and blaze and the new ones have no quality. I do not feel any frustration regarding Robben. He is not the problem. Yes his injuries are a problem, but that would then be a great opportunity for the younger players to benefit from. They don't take their chances.

    What we actually need to do is look beyond this sh*t batch of players and look past this generation of Wijnaldum like players. We need to mentally prep ourselves to let them go very fast and invest ASAP in the top players of younger generations. We are in our Newcastle phase with the NT and we should never even be there.
     
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  19. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    That's a good example indeed, but we never really depended on VDV while we clearly depend on Robben. Starting the qualifiers with him might help but it would only be a very short term project. I just can't see him playing 2018 considering his injuries.

    Promes hasn't got a lot of chances though. Started only two games and those were friendlies. I actually liked his first one against France, was against Evra and showed balls from the first minutes. Provocated him, tackled him...Then nothing special with NT, but he deserves more chances considering his games in Russia. Should definitly have started last games instead of Narsingh.
    Seriously Narsingh is one of the most used players in 2015. He played every game. 45 minutes against Turkey home, 90 minutes against Spain, 45 minutes against the USA, 90 minutes against Latvia, 60 minutes against Iceland and 65 minutes against Turkey away...How could he get as much playing time considering all the wingers we have ?

    What's your suggestions for the ST and AM spots ?
     
  20. No, the transfer of JéPéBoëtius is good (though I would preferred him to extend his contract with us) as he gets playing time in an offensive team. He is my favourite for the wing position after Robben.
     
  21. This weekend I'm going to 020 to the IBC in the RAI exhibition centre to see the latest on equipment for television, video and broadcasting. I was looking forward to it, because I expect to see previews of 4K with 3D for the 2016 European Championship. But all of a sudden it doesnot seem to be such fun anymore with us probably not there in France. Man, I was in thrilled anticipation to look at the Orange team in glorious 4K 3D.:(
     
  22. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Exactly what I been saying. Holland is between generations right now, and this present crop is just a temporary patch job till the next Robben/Sneijder/vPersie generation arrives (which is gonna take at least 5 to 10 years)
     
  23. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    ST: I like Bergwijn. However he is small. Think Aguaro size, but more lazy.
    AM: Nouri or Frenkie de Jong. Last one has a dribble.

    Maybe if Sinkgraven is developed in midfield we might have some fun with him.


    I still think we are a bit unlucky. Think Juve style with a DLP in Clasie and 2 runners that all would not have suffered injury and would have been build on a good frame:

    --------------Stroot--------Clasie-------van Ginkel----------


    That could have been a nice midfield. I need to start watching some Stoke games to see what is going on with van Ginkel. It might be him, can also be the trainer. Ginkel is not a fancy player. He must be used in the right way.
     

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