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Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Aug 30, 2015.
I think when asked the Germans were drunk and mistook Honduras for Holland
We went to 2010 final playing like the old Germany, practical, effective but not attractive. Along the way many fans were disappointed, but to me it is not a big deal. It is nice to play attractive when you can. We went to 2014 with 5-3-2 because 4-3-3 did not work, and we went home with 3rd place, still no cup. We should have sticked with what worked. KNVB decided to change, going with Hiddink and focus on return to attractive 4-3-3. This led to disaster. If our players can only play 5-3-2 to succeed, perhaps we need to play 5-3-2 and find the coach that can do this. I think I read that Koeman introduced this at Feyenoord so perhaps Koeman is our front runner for the next head coach. My friends thought I was joking when Netherlands lost to Iceland at home, to Turkey away and is 95% missing Euro next year. They said that if this happened we do not deserve to go although let's face it, Euro is not the same without Netherlands. We are still famous!
I am okay with BVM till 2010. I thought he lost the plot after that when he choose not to rejuvenate the squad and stuck with the same thing. I never was anti BVM. In many ways, I thought he did a fine job.
"Collectively sank through the ice" is a nice way to comment about these performances. It could be worse. We are not officially eliminated yet, just can not control our own destiny as we rely on others to help. I picture that we are on life support and it is just a matter when the plug is pulled.
I understand that our weak defense was exposed and perhaps we need 5 instead of 4 to defend as well as having Nigel De Jong. However I could not understand why we could not score. Ignore Latvia and Kazakhstan, looking at our head to hear records vs Czech, Iceland and Turkey, 2-8. The defend can leak but if we can outscore the opponent we still have a chance (see Kazakhstan 3-1 game as an example). When we cannot score, regardless how good our defense is we will not win a game. How did we dry up in scoring?
Iceland start a keeper who is rubbish in the Eredivise yet the shots on goal never came. Goals in soccer are precious and if there is one main failing of this Dutch campaign it has been the woeful performance on attack. The ball movement has been way too slow and it seems like everyone watches way too many Ajax matches. Until we have a midfield with high handling speed things will not get much better.
I'm asuming I'm not the only one who thought about it, but... I'm kinda afraid that Turkey, Iceland and the Czechs will set us up. I mean, Iceland and Czech Republic have already qualified so they won't have a problem giving Turkey some free points on the house to keep us away. Paranoid much? Maybe, but it is possible..
Possibly, but I will always respect the Czech for what they did in 2004. They went into overdrive against Germany while not having to and as a result of them wining that final game with everything they got, we advanced. So let's see, but the Czech have shown very honorable behavior before, so I will only call things out when there is a clear case against them. They have earned my respect with that game.
Not paranoid at all. Czecho and Iceland would be really stupid to play their A-teams and risk injury.
Heck, I wouldnt even start my B-team, I would start my C-team
^^Doubt it will matter as I cannot see us taking all three points in the trip to Kazakhstan. This team cannot score goals and it looks like a 0-0 match to me.
So what are the next steps people would take? If it was up to you what would the squad for the next set of fixtures look like given we are looking for a miracle to qualify now. Is it time to says thanks and goodbye to certain players and start again?
Oh Lord, the Irony.
I was tempted to comment that we should sub Van Basten and Van Nilsterooy in the 2nd half vs Turkey. Perhaps they can do better than our current squad as these 2 can pull one out of the bag from nothing (see Van Basten's goal vs Soviet Union or Van Nilsterooy's goal vs Germany in Euro 2004).
Ronald Koeman is under contract with Southampton for another 2 years (on a 3 years contract). Frank De Boer's contract with Ajax is up next year. I'd prefer Ronald Koeman to take the first crack but it is likely Frank De Boer will be the leading candidate as it may not cost money. Until then, we stay with Danny Blind to complete this qualification. If the fans and journalist scream for Van Dijk, put Van Dijk in. If they still lose then at least he can say that he did what people asks and have an excuse because right now he has none. The next step for Danny Blind would be to consult Johan Cruyff and/or Louis Van Gaal, then this forum and other Dutch fans forums/blogs to brainstorm for ideas because he seems to be bad with his players selection, starting 11, tactics and substitutions (in other words, clueless). Ok, kidding aside, I think Blind and his staff should have a discussion with the team players. They need to evaluate what they can do and then selection the formation best suite for their current ability instead of the attractive 4-3-3. They need to do a much better preparations, study video of their loss, .... They need to seriously think about going back to 5-3-2/3-4-3. Play with the system best suited the players/ability that you have rather than force the player adapt to the desired system. Implement rule that if you are not playing regularly for the club, you are not selected, regardless who you are.
To shake thing up, I will start with Krul as a keeper. Recall Janmaat and he will be our RB, Tete will back him up. Try De Vrij/Van Dijk/Kongolo as CB (Van Beek and Veltman as sub). On LB try Pieters or Van Aanhold (Willems is injured). Wijnaldum, Anita and Sneijder hold the midfield. Up front we have Depay, Promes or Lens. If we switch to 3-4-3, Van Aanhold and Janmaat pushed up, take Wijnaldum out and perhaps put Dost in. Sadly I would say good bye to both Huntelaar and RVP, and to BMI and VDW (until they can prove that they deserve to be called up).
I rather see Blind tried out at CB. He did pretty good when he shifted over from LB against Turkey
Well that's the position he plays at ManU. Maybe his father believes that van Gaal is playing him out of position!
who from the u21 or from players currently not selected deserves a try out? As we are missing that crucial middle generation we surely must now look to provide our next generation players with as much exposure and experience as possible?
Ok, I don't mind Blind as DM rather than CB. He and Anita can switch (until Clasie is healthy and regain form/fitness). I'd rather have 3 CB behind Blind than having Blind as CB. At least when he failed to control the throw in we still have 3 guys to cover him . Sorry that I quote the wrong one there but it is about Blind as CB quote.
Hey, first I'm not a massive fan of blind mainly due to his lack of pace. But in the defence of his bad touch lets first look at the ridiculous throw in by Vdw and the terrible positioning of Bruma. If the throw had been delayed or Bruma was positioned as he should have been then blinds poor touch arguably does not result in the opportunity
The worst thing we could do is fall into the never ending cycle of short term blind opportunism. No pun intendend.
Hakking off a trainer on 2 games is idiotic, as much as i dislike the guy.
Defensively huge issues? Ofcourse, not unexpected. All our defenders are limited, and they should be fit to eachother like a jigsaw, making sure the partnerships cover eachother. This nonsense about only being able to play with 5 defenders is absolutely bizar. BvM(one out of a greaaat many) proved that if you are disciplined and keep shape, you can play with a shit defence to a certain extent.
I'm much much more worried about our offense, not so much about our midfield. For our midfield we need bright players, and we actually have them. Clasie, Propper, 'de Jong'(in some ways), Klaassen, you name it, it should be easy to find a great and balanced midfield. But offensively?
I think Depay is a specialist in making an action/throughball, usually 1v1, but the more i watch him the more i think he isnt actually a very good player. His positioning, the runs he doesnt make, the space he takes in which is already taken by teammates.. He could be great someday soon, but tacticly he isnt right now.
And then... Well.. Hoping Lens does well at sunderland, he does his best. Kind of have more hope for Lens than anyone else at our forward line atm, and hes a sunderland...
Actually I still have hope that JePeBoëtius takes the right wing position.
I'm not even sure Oranje could beat Luxembourg right now.
Oh wait, maybe we could beat their U-21 team. Sorry!!!
Somehow France, when it comes to Euro Cup, is cursed ground to us. Didnot we fail to reach it a few decades ago already?
I'm so mad right now.
Dont even get me started!!!!
I don't think there will be any kind of conspiracy here. I don't think for instance that the Czechs will be happy giving up points at home to Turkey at all. It's mainly a difference of motivation now. The Turks will be so fired up to finish the job (having come back from the dead in this group, and having missed three major tournaments in a row now). While the Czechs are already through and mainly have first place to fight for, not their very survival in the tournament.
The stupid thing is that the failure to get even a point against Iceland at home may be decisive. If the gap was 1 point less, then Turkey drawing against the Czechs would already have been enough for us to reclaim third with a win in Kazakhstan. Turkey are clear underdogs to come away with a win in Czech Republic, but they are favorites to manage at least a draw under the circumstances.
They may rest a few players here and there, or carry out more experimentation than they normally would, but why would they be so terrified of injury some 8 months before the tournament? Even for friendlies teams tend to put a mixture of first-choice and B-team players at the very worst. And in this case it's more than a glorified friendly: there's the additional element of fighting for first place and doing their "sporting duty".
Yes I have a lot of trouble getting over last week's disastrous games too, and the fact that we now probably won't make it to France. In both cases so very avoidable! Finishing 3rd in the World Cup, and then only a year later staring at 4th place in a group containing zero teams that even managed to qualify for the last tournament.. This has to rival France's meltdown in their last two home games in 1994 qualifying.
The only team of any standard that managed to outdo us in this qualifying is Greece, who lost home and away to the Faroe Islands (less than 1/6th of Iceland's population ).