Euro 2016 other teams thread

Discussion in 'Italy: National Teams' started by johnny6, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. gumbacicc

    gumbacicc Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    USA
    I am not sure what you mean. In any event, it appears that many Portuguese supporters are attempting to convince those of us who are unimpressed at the Euro Cup victory that it was incredible impressive feat. You may have convinced yourself of that, but I can't say I share the same view.

    Portugal scrapes by the first round against weak opposition. There was no impressive team in their group. They tied a nation with less than 400,000 inhabitants. They scrape a draw against an unimpressive Austria side. Finally, they manage a draw against a mediocre Hungary side that I think most of us would be hard-pressed to name two players.

    They go on and get outplayed by Croatia, but scrape by on a late goal. Portugal were very negative in that game getting out shot by the Croats by over 3 to 1. Portugal need penalties to get by an average Poland side. Then, Portugal are fortunate enough to face a Welsh side lucky to be in a semifinal and win that match. Credit to them.

    In the final, Portugal was very negative in the first 90. To their credit, they opened up in extra time and were rewarded. However, France had just as many opportunities to score. Portugal took their chance. France didn't.

    I congratulate you on your victory, but I am hardly impressed at how you got there. Had you been on the other side of the bracket, I think you would have gotten picked off early.

    It also makes me laugh to recall the criticisms many of us here got from our Portuguese friends about how pragmatic and negative past Italy sides have been. Pot. Kettle. Black.
     
  2. 'Uaglio

    'Uaglio Member+

    Jun 8, 2004
    NYC
    I think we have to distinguish between the words "deserved" and "impressed". Portugal's hard work and never-say-die attitude this Euro Cup made them deserved winners. They didn't cheat anyone on their path to the Cup.

    The problem is that their play was incredibly pedestrian and their competition was so weak that I cannot recall a modern team having such a clear road to the finals. Even with all that, they only one 1 game in regulation all tournament.

    Kudos to them for taking advantage of the format and the lucky break of getting France on 2 days rest. But, I really can't think of a less impressive victor of the Cup...and that includes Greece who beat a lot of good teams on the way to the title in 2004.
     
  3. Rob_420

    Rob_420 Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    Montreal
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Arguably the 2nd biggest goal for them in the tournament after Eder's was the one scored by Iceland in the 94th which sent the Icelandic commentator into an orgasmic fervour. If not they would have been sent to our side.
     
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  4. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I mentioned that earlier. They would have had England, France, then us or Germany before possibly Belgium/Wales/Poland/Switzerland/Croatia in the final, if progressing that far.
     
  5. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    I have no problem with people thinking Portugal were the least impressive victors. On the outside, it's the most obvious conclusion, if you base purely on aesthetics.

    I simply think if you look deeper, the team has higher quality than their play let on. Portugal has with Renato Sanches, Joao Mario, William Carvalho, etc. what will be the best midfield in Europe by 2018. Up front they have two players known for skill, one being a Top 10 All-Time-Great. This team could play attractively if they want to. I'm sure you're aware Portugal's history consists of great-looking football which amounted to zero titles.

    Personally, I'm a fan of the play of any team that wins such a title, as it's a system that won. It beat all the other systems. I think that's impressive.

    Portugal in the group stage outshot their opponents 75-15. Two of Hungary's goals were deflections. I'm not a big believer in luck, but if it exists, then Portugal didn't have it in the group stage. Against Croatia and Poland, they beat out two teams that had gotten points from Spain and Germant in the group stage. Wales had been impressive in every single game but were dispatched simply by Portugal. In the final, the team previously dubbed "Ronaldo and ten men", lost Ronaldo and still went on to beat one of the international football heavyweights in their own capital. At the end of the day, nobody was able to beat Portugal.

    Might be just me but I find all that to be pretty impressive.
     
  6. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    By the way, I intend no maliciousness, as I'm sure you've been visited by Portuguese trolls in the past. Just always interesting to hear different opinions.
     
  7. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    You are the title holder, so you have every right to be proud.
     
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  8. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    i'm not so sure about that
     
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  9. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Ruben Neves and Renato Sanches are the two best 18 year old midfielders in Europe. William Carvalho won player of the tournament at Euro U21 and already played in a Euro final. That's three players already. Not sure how big you believe midfield's are but that's already a majority, and I'm not even mentioning others.

    If you have an argument, I'd love to hear it.
     
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  10. artielange84

    artielange84 Member

    Aug 7, 2014
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Country:
    Canada
    I'm predicting something along the lines of "..but but but verratti"
     
  11. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Renato was also voted the Best Young Player at the Euro. And we also have the player voted best player at Euro-21. You need to go through serious mental hoops to claim that Portugal is not very well-placed to have the best midfield.
     
  12. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    that doesn't guarantee anything really......you know how many times i've heard the argument " we have this and that young player coming up so we will be impressive in a few years ".... only for it to much of the time not work out that way

    i've heard this so many times.....all fans do this

    also you guys are champs now so why all the effort in other forums ( like here a lot ) trying to prove that you earned it?......enjoy it man!!

    No
     
  13. InsigneForBalonD'or

    Jul 16, 2014
    The 6ix
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Canada
    We'll see, I remember the Portuguese think Nani was gonna be better than Messi and Maradona. This is Portugals golden generation from a midfield point of view. I don't rate Carvalho at all tbh, he's a poor mans De Rossi. Joao Mario and Renato Sanches are great players don't get me wrong, but they're entering a part in their career where their head needs to be in the right spot. A lot of players can't handle the pressure of all this hype being generated towards them. They're already being linked with moves to the big teams, (cuz let's be honest the Portuguese League is a big step behind the top 4 leagues in the world).

    Renato Sanches is gonna be at Bayern next year. The league as a whole is once again not very strong if you take away the top 2-3 teams. I can't see Sanches even starting with Bayern next year. He has to beat Xabi Alonso, Mario Gotze, Vidal, and let's not forget someone who I think perfectly represents Joao Mario and Renato Sanches, Thiago Alcantara.

    Ya, remember him? Tipped to become one of the best players in the world having previously been player of the tournament at the U21 Euros.


    I'm not saying Renato Sanches and Joao Mario will fall out but I just can't see them being the worlds top 10 midfielders, at least not by 2018. Carvalho doesn't come close to the top midfielders in the world, I just don't like him that's my opinion.
     
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  14. InsigneForBalonD'or

    Jul 16, 2014
    The 6ix
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Canada
    Read my above post about the previous best player at U21 Euro's
     
  15. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    People keep harping about Portugal getting the easy side of the bracket. It was the side that they were suppose to be on if they won their group as the top seed. Belgium ended up on that side as well and were one of the favorites. They were not suppose to be there. On paper, Belgium was suppose to be a tough opponent. They were not. Complaining about who ended up where is futile. The teams played their group games and ended where they did.
     
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  16. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    I don't think many are harping about Portugal anymore , at this point at least, but more so the fact that the expansion of the tournament and the poor formatting really did a disservice to the whole tournament.

    Portugal...imo...are deserved champs and even before I was rooting for them both in the final and semi final ( as Wales would of been a huge blemish in a Euro final ).

    The perfect semi final would have been Portugal - Belgium from all those teams on that side of the bracket.
     
  17. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    Lol Are you really using a midfielder that plays for Spain and Bayern Munich as an example of a prospect playing below expectations? Where is the negative here?

    And you're also clearly lying about the Nani/Maradona remark. Nani didn't have half the hype Ronaldo did and nobody ever claimed such a thing for him.

    I'm simply saying. Portugal has Renato Sanches, Ruben Neves, Andre Gomes, Bernardo Silva, William Carvalho, Joao Mario, etc. Those are all highly coveted players, virtually relative to every player that age, so if you know another country with a similar number of quality prospects, please do speak.

    At the end of the day William Carvalho was the starting defensive midfielder of a Euro winning team that was known to be very defensive. I'd say there's not too many players out there that could do that.
     
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  18. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    I don't buy any of this expansion & format made for a lesser tournament. Among the semi finalists, Wales was the only newby. Germany, France & Portugal were all top seeds. Spain is no longer the Spain of the last few tournaments. England chokes as usual. Iceland was a nice surprise but that was not due to the format. The tournament played out like it did.
     
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  19. Rob_420

    Rob_420 Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    Montreal
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Carvalho was excellent without the ball, his instincts and positioning were very good.

    Joao Mario looks the part, very impressive lets see what he does at Inter, if does in fact go there.

    Bernardo Silva was the best of the bunch I thought at the U21 Euros last season.

    Portugal have a good thing going in midfield.
     
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  20. InsigneForBalonD'or

    Jul 16, 2014
    The 6ix
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Canada
    Germany, and France all have equal talent from the midfield department coming up but what you're forgetting is rarely do all of these players come up and become what was expected of them. Most of the time, there is a late bloomer who pops out when he's 22, 23, 24 and starts becoming a great player. Not only do Italy have Verratti, but they have players who are coming up who are often not even thought about. Players such as Berrardi (21), Cataldi (21), Benassi (21), Mandragora (19), Christante (21), Mauri (20), and Bernardeschi (22). These are just midfield players who could potentially make the step up.

    I won't lie to you I don't follow the Portuguese League. Joao Mario, Ruben Neves and Renato Sanches are the players Portugal should focus on.

    Germany- Kimmich, Sane, Arnold, Meyer, Draxler, Weigl
    France- Pogba, Coman, Rabiot, Tolisso





    By the way I'm not saying Thiago (playing for Spain and Bayern) is playing below expectations but come on we all expected him to be like Iniesta. It's not his fault there were such high expectations on him. Most players never reach what is expected of them and it's a real shame. I don't think Portugal will have the best midfield in 2018, but like i said before, it's just my opinion. They definitely have a promising future though
     
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  21. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    #271 Pietro Calcio, Jul 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
    This Euro's format wasn't balanced enough not taking into account the winners of group E and F against the 3rd place teams.

    In so doing it certainly contributed to creating uneven brackets where the top sides weeded each other out too early regardless of the fact only Wales made it to the semis.....also it always happens in tournaments that teams expected to win groups don't so that really can't be used as an argument for the brackets being so very uneven as they were in this particular euro.

    if the format took into weighing all the group winners against each other in playing the 3rd place teams things would have balanced out much better instead of blindly and irresponsibly saying they all shouldn't be factored and leaving out group winners E and F.

    also adding 8 extra weaker teams created a new system for this euro where 4 out of 6 third place teams go through thereby creating much less incentive to win for all teams and this also in a way screwed with the bracketing.....in a way it made the group phase much less important compared to previous Euros

    all of this has to be considered

    edit....and a certain few always lurking here hell bent on seeing everything said and repping certain posts need to just step away from the computer and celebrate the victory already....be happy man!...who cares!
     
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  22. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Maryland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    Italy
    I don't see any less incentive for any team to win. That is too much of a risk. What the expanded format has done is allowed teams that have a bad start still have a chance. That was the case for Italia in 94. Portugal went all the way despite finishing in third. The incentive is there if not greater.

    Portugal defeated Croatia, Wales & France to win the title. All of them finished first in their groups. They advanced by Poland in the quarterfinal via penalties. Poland finished second in their group. So while some may argue it was an easy path from a historical perspective, those teams did what they had to do in this tournament.

    People moaned that by winning its group, Italy had a tough road. Spain was not the team of tournaments past. Germany while strong did not overwhelm. I had some people tell me we could have taken France. Winning a tournament is one of a survivor. Portugal did it. Was there some luck? Yes. There always is luck. Part of the game.
     
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  23. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    even still falc....there was a total of 20 major trophies won on one side of the bracket at the start

    the other side at the start....none

    they needed to do better making sure to mix it up

    they messed up a bit....especially when they ruled out group winners E and F???
     
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  24. Rob_420

    Rob_420 Member

    Jun 2, 2006
    Montreal
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Had Spain not lost to Croatia, I think they cruise to the final. They had been the best team in the tournament up until the 87th minute of that match.
     
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  25. Pietro Calcio

    Pietro Calcio Member+

    Jul 28, 2007
    Roma,Italia / NY,NY
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Country:
    Italy
    yeah...if everything else stays the same and spain and croatia switch spots it's highly likely

    Spain may not have been the same like previous years but there is no disputing they still had much quality on that squad. they definitely could have elevated their game enough on that other side of the bracket to get at least to the semis. The problem is they ended up on our side instead and played a well drilled 3-5-2 ;)
     
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