Euro 2016 - Everyone but us.

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by JC-14, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Here a bit longer reply;

    That was not what I implied with the gif (you called the Germans 'Krauts' above). But since you ask it's imho true that Germany is very influential and rule bending country. All countries definitely use performance enhancers (e.g. Spain, France, Belgium, Argentina, Brazil are on WADA's watchlist; not Holland though), but the whole meldonium saga show what type of games go on behind the scenes, where both the Americans and Russians try to pressurize the authorities (if you have followed that story a little bit). These type of things have also happened in football, going back to the 1966 World Cup. In short: the problematic issues arise when the meddling occurs. Meanwhile, Italy has never been particularly influential and well-represented at UEFA and FIFA level.

    What is however undeniably true is how the German national team always receives the new match balls earlier than other countries. Each tournament new match balls are designed, and the Germans always receive those earlier (including all testing data) than all other countries. Imho it would be better anyway if (like the NBA) the match balls are unchanged for the coming 20 years.

    As I said, this Italy team was one of the fittest Italy teams in living memory, next to their usual patience and tactical understanding. They went toe to toe with the Germans in this match, which quite an achievement considering their tougher schedule and fewer rest days. Freshness (relative to opponent) has a huge influence on the ability to take penalties very well.

     
  2. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Do you have a citation about the American involvement in the doping area? If anything the Americans have been at the forefront of the anti-doping movement (I know several of those who work for WADA and I gave a paper at the US baseball meeting on growth hormone abuse). Other than an occasional track athlete, I don't know of any generalized doping among US athletes. Our baseball league has been especially active as a result of the steroid abuse that took place some years ago.
     
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #278 PuckVanHeel, Jul 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2016
    That's not really what I meant with the thing in bold. The Americans were the ones who placed meldonium on the agenda, and lobbied to get it on the banned list (with only a two month transitional period). The Russians plead for the opposite and argued - among other things - there is no scientific base, knowing that it will hurt the East European athletes more than any other (with a number of big events just around the corner). Then after the scandal 'exploded', they successfully tried to limit the damage and e.g. WADA has relaxed the dates and minimum thresholds quite a bit (with a longer transitional period).

    Essentially I meant this:
    http://nos.nl/artikel/2099036-politieke-spelletjes-achter-verbod-op-meldonium.html
    http://www.nrc.nl/next/2016/03/09/dopinglijst-is-politiek-ingestoken-1596259
    Video link with discussion

    Although the USA has had their programmes in the past as well (not unlike the Russians; 1984 Olympics, Balco), I agree that they're more reputable in their governance than - say - the Spaniards (Spain, Germany and Italy in the 1990s have a few labs who play a dubious double function: researching both sports enhancement and the policing role; in Spain someone was eventually caught who was active on both sides of the pond). Their governance is of a higher and more transparant level than most.
     
  4. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    That's why I'm for 'effective playing time' and 'time penalties'. That would solve so many issues in this game.

    Hummels now misses the semi finals because he was a split second too late with a challenge. Ramsey, one of the 2 players worth a damn for Wales, has to miss the semi finals. It's just a waste. And it's unfair.
     
  5. JC-14

    JC-14 Member+

    Jan 28, 2010
    Amsterdam
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Has anyone mentioned the mistake from Kevin de Bryune for the 1-1 yet? I can not comprehend how a player does not know how to cover the post at a corner kick. Didn't it happen with an Oranje player as well not too long ago? It's the easiest job in the world. How can professional players not know to stick to the post? That was taught to me as an 8 year old.
     
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  6. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Its always the captains job to tell his players to cover the 2 posts
     
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The athletes are just plain stupid to think that they are not going to get caught. We still have instances in professional baseball and football in the US where they get caught and penalized. Basketball has been pretty free of doping, maybe just one or two cases in the past several years. The tennis player, Sharapova, was suspended for two years because of meldonium and will probably lose a lot of commercial endorsement money. She said she was taking it for some health condition which was just a lie.
     
  8. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I'm not so sure. Playing a man down in football is much different than doing the same thing in ice hockey. In the latter sport the chance to score is enhanced whereas in football teams can play a man down for long periods of time and not concede. I understand the point you are making and it does impact tournament play especially for teams that rely on a small number of players. Wales losing Ramsey is significant but Spain (had they made it this far) could afford to lose a player and it wouldn't make as much difference.

    What was interesting yesterday was how many Italian players were carrying Yellow cards into the game with Germany including the three defenders and key players did not pick up cards in that match.
     
  9. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The Icelandic saga appears to be ending.
     
  10. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Did not invest time in this match. Knew it already.
     
  11. Rinus127

    Rinus127 Member

    Sep 8, 2015
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    France-Germany. It will be a fantastic krakrer between the two best teams in Europe. I like the french team. The french have the best academies in Europe, imho. We have a lot of things to learn from them. Hope they will win this tournament.
     
  12. White/Blue_since1860

    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I dont think you should be expeting much from Germany in this with all the injuries
     
  13. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    In my opinion the GER-FRA semifinal really is THE final
     
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  14. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    Me too. France Iceland reminded me of Netherlands Yugoslavia in Euro 2000 and I think what happened to Netherlands then could happen to France now. Hopefully Germany France will be a very good match. I would like to see Wales in the final although somehow I think Portugal will find a way to win it.
     
  15. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I thought Italy - Germany was really the final? :confused:
     
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  16. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    Not if you have a PK like this (and Conte just subbed him in before PK):

     
  17. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I think you're probably right about Portugal. But I dont think based on their play they deserve to be in the final. That's why I'm hoping Wales will win
     
  18. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    I read on the net that we hold the record for the most extra time games (7). I can only count 6. Czech 76, Denmark 92, France 96, Italy 00, Sweden 04, Russia 08. We are also the team with the most 3rd/4th place finish (4: 76, 92, 00 and 04). For fun I play the predictor on UEFA, only got the France-Germany bracket correct. Didn't expect Portugal-Wales semifinal. I think UEFA and FIFA should change the rule, get rid of the yellow card counting after group stage. If the player gets yellow for round of 16 and QF then he deserves to miss the SF, but he should not miss the SF for 1 out of 2 yellow card in the group stage.
     
  19. Why couldnot Italy then f..d up their penalties, instead of now, demmit.
    Quite funny though how Germany didnot miss a penalty 30 plus times, and now make up for it in one go:D
     
  20. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #295 Brilliant Dutch, Jul 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2016
    And yet they still won the game. So not really that funny
     
  21. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    PKs are a funny thing. Most amazed by Schweinsteiger. IIRC he used take all the penalties for Bayern and I can't remember him ever missing one. It's hard to say whether Pelle or Zaza was the worst penalty I've ever seen.
     
  22. But they run for the top 5 funniest:p
     
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  23. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    the look on Pelle's face was classic. He was really shocked that the PK was so bad.
     
  24. And the funny thing was also that if he did what he was signaling to Neuer, the Panenka, he would have scored, and probably also the winner.
     
  25. White/Blue_since1860

    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    You dont remember the CL final 2012 pen against the post?
     

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